I'm after my first telescope and am having a brain melt researching which one to get. My priorities are:
- Compactness, light in weight, easy to take places (something that can fit in a car boot)
- Cost must be reasonable (I'm on a budget!)
- A scope that will do a decent job at seeing a lot of stuff and won't dissapoint (planet detail and deep sky objects such as galaxies are my favourites)
- A mount which tracks objects (I don't want to nudge a dobsonian around)
- My preference is something to suit observational astronomy
- Something with Astrophotography capabilities, although this is not as important as observational astronomy
- A scope with decent optics (focal ratio and aperature are priorities. I don't want something with problems such as coma due to focal ratio)
So given all that, I think I've found a scope to fit my requirements. It would be good to hear people's thoughts on it, being:
Skywatcher 200mm (8 inch) Newtonian on EQ5 mount
- Code: SW600
- Diameter: 200mm
- Focal Length: 1000mm
- Focal Ratio: F/5
- Highest practical power: 472x
- Mount: EQ5
- Tube dimensions: 24cm x 92cm
- Tripod height: 97-121cm
- Anyone know the weight of the tube and the eq mount?
Cost right now at Andrews is $799. Looks to be a bargain. So what's the catch?
Just hoping upon hope that this could be the ONE. I read somewhere that newtonians on equatorial mounts are a joke? Apparantly they're difficult because the eyepiece can point in weird directions?
Also, what's the difference between an EQ5 mount and a much more expensive HEQ5 mount. Are they both operated by electricity and not by hand? I want to track objects to look at continuously without the need to re-align the scope. Hopefully both mounts would do this. Are both mounts suited to long exposure astrophotograhy?
The short length (1m) should be much easier to fit in a car boot? Can these be fit in a typical car boot? Anyone have a personal experience? Other 8 inch dobs have a length of 1.2m (F/6).
Would an F/5 focal ratio be an issue in terms of coma? Can it be fixed at all if this is a problem?
So many questions that my head is now hurting. Better go have a beer or three...
Cheers
Jowel
Last edited by Mountain_Wanderer; 22-09-2010 at 10:11 PM.
Yes the world of telescopes can be a bit of a headache at times, however I'll see if I can help at all. As you can see in my signature I use exactly the setup you are seeking infomation about. So here goes:
Quote:
I read somewhere that newtonians on equatorial mounts are a joke? Apparantly they're difficult because the eyepiece can point in weird directions?
Ok, yes they are fiddly and you are continually screwing/unscrewing the tube rings and spinning the tube within so the eypiece is located more user friendly. You do get used to this.
Quote:
what's the difference between an EQ5 mount and a much more expensive HEQ5 mount
The EQ5 is fully manual which is not so bad once you have a good set of charts and is great for expanding your knowedge of the sky. Once you align the mount, which is very simple when only doing visual observing, tracking is quite simple.
I find that my scope is amazing and I am still surprised at how much I can see through it. Part of the trick is not to expect to see coffee table book quality views. e.g. you are doing well to see faint mag. 10 galaxies as smugdes. They are not called faint fuzzies for nothing!!
It is also worthwhile investing in a set of good quality eyepieces. I do most of my viewing with a 21mm (47X), a 13mm (76X) and a 2.5X powermate. Great! To give a little idea of its capabilities I have seen Pluto through it on an exceptional night.
Also no problems with transporting as we have a 4X4 and station wagon but I do think a smaller vehicle should be not great drama.
Last edited by WadeH; 22-09-2010 at 09:08 PM.
Reason: Submited before finished, accidental
ANOTHER choice? I thought you were looking at collapsible 8 or 10" ones? AND you want to do Astrophotos too? Man!
Firstly, I currently have a collapsible 12" (cost me $1499) AND a Black Diamond 8" on an HEQ5 pro ($1349) and I would have to say while I still love and use both of them, if I had to pick one which could do visual AND Astrophotography, the 8" HEQ5 is the one. I am still amazed at how much the 8" can pull in compared to the MUCH larger mirror on the 12", BUT the 12" Dob absolutely is mind blowing on globulars (my favourite) where they are not AS stunning on the 8" and you CANT do Astrophotography on a dob
You will NOT have much fun with a manual EQ5, even if it has a tracking motor in RA and for AP, it wont be much good as I have found out in my WOEFUL attempts with my EQ2 and RA motor. The precision even on the EQ5 is just not there. The HEQ5 also has an Guider port AND GOTO, which I am seriously in love with after star hopping with my first two scopes and when you want to "tour" the night sky is sensational fun. The guiding port is a necessity if you want pics longer than 30 seconds without blurring of the stars.
In comparison, with my Canon 1000D on my spanking new HEQ5 combo, I cranked out 3 images within an hour on the second night I had it.
For portability, the tube comes off and is wrapped in a doona, the mount is collapsed and also wrapped in a doona and fits across the back of the car boot. Setting up is a breeze, whack the tube on the mount and align and off you go. (after polar/drift aligning - roughly for visual and finely for AP)
SO, take it from someone who now has THREE telescopes after thinking his 130mm reflector on an EQ2 could take photos and do for visual (and keeping in mind you said you DONT want to push around a dob), If you are seriously contemplating an excellent all round telescope that CAN do Astrophotography as well as satisfy your visual needs FOR A LONG TIME as you will probably run out of patience before you get through ALL of the objects in the goto controller.......
Get an HEQ5 Pro with a Black Diamond 8" tube on it. $1399 I think they cost now at Andrews....
Astonishingly sexy to look at and really has bang for your buck and ticks all your boxes you asked for.
By the time you have eliminated ALL possibilities out there, you will have saved up the extra cash over the cost of the 10" dob and take my word for it, if you have ANY sort of gadget freak lurking inside you, driving an HEQ5 from the controller (something my 10 yr old can do better than me) or by hooking it up to a laptop and clicking the screen and watching the scope whirr and slew around the sky to show you what you want - IS SERIOUSLY COOL!
You WILL need a power tank for powering the scope (mine cost me $40 from Super Cheap Auto) and as Wade said, you can spin the tube around in the rings to get the eyepiece right for visual, its not THAT bad.
Now, be a good boy and stop being paralysed by choice, and listen to the words of wisdom of Uncle Chris and toddle off down to Andrews when you have saved your $1400 and do youself a favour and buy yourself a BD200N on an HEQ5 pro and tell them I sent you.
There's a good chap!
PS. I have attached the pics I took as well as one of the scope itself to show you what I mean.
Cheers
Chris
Last edited by Screwdriverone; 22-09-2010 at 10:03 PM.
8" Newt on a HEQ5pro is a sweet spot for price and performance. EQ6 if you can stretch it that far to cover yourself better for the future (but bit more to lug about too....)
Can be a bit of fluffing about to get prime focus for astrophotography - worth reading up on threads regarding that here on IIS.
I bought my rig from Andrews and service was excellent....
Thanks everyone for the cool advice. I've returned from a few longnecks to find some wonderful answers. Now I'm excited. Only problem is collecting the dosh I need.
So much to think about! The more I think, the bigger and better I want. You can't win when looking for your first scope!
In terms of size, how long exactly is the tube and the mount. I need to get a clear idea whether it would ALL fit in the BOOT of my small sized car (a 2000 Hyundai Accent). I'm hoping nothing would be more than 1m long???
Also, what type of weight is everything here? Tube, mount, counterweights etc.
Last edited by Mountain_Wanderer; 22-09-2010 at 10:43 PM.
Yep, it should fit in the boot of the Hyundai nicely.
As for weight, there is two 5kg counterweights, the tube weighs about 9kg and the mount with the tripod weighs about 20kg. You move it around in bits (take off the counterweights) and its fine. Think of an average size 10 year old boy and that's about how much it weighs all up.
Keep in mind that since I bought it, I have pretty much exclusively used it in my backyard in Kellyville Ridge which has a fair amount of Skyglow from Blacktown and Parramatta, so if you are in the Blue Mountains, I would suggest the sky is much darker and therefore, transport is not going to be done as much.
I just measured the folded tripod which is 1m long, the tube is only 93cm. So you should be fine packing in the boot in some doonas for cushioning (and not scratching it all)
If you look at the corners of the pics I posted on this thread, you can see the stars look a little smeared like a comma or teardrop, which is what coma is, non spherical stars at the edge of the field. This is shown up more in the photos than visually, as my eyepieces (even the ones that come with it) dont really show it up very much, even at F5.
The one that I notice the coma on is the 2" barrel 30mm wide angle one I got from Andrews, where the outer third of the view is pretty bad, but in most cases, I am not looking out there anyway, but in the middle two thirds of the view.
Coma for visual is in most scopes with fast F ratios, you wont really tell the difference visually between an F5 and an F4.5 when it comes to coma. My 12" has it too but as I said, you know its there, and most of the time you can live with it just fine. Don't worry about it in this price range, almost EVERY sub $1500 scope will have it unless its a premium refractor which costs that much just for the tube.
Honestly, I wouldnt worry about coma, its not the number one reason for chosing a scope and when you look through one, the last thing you are really looking for is smeared stars at the very edge of the view. The planet, nebula, globular cluster or binary star in the middle of the field is the thing you are interested in and when it comes to photos, you can fix it with an MPCC (coma corrector) which I have and will be using soon.
20kg for the HEQ5 mount is massive! Geez. I think I'll be needing a trolley to carry everything from the car to a setup place. Out of curiousity, how much would an HEQ6 weigh?
Also, just say that during a night of observation I didn't want to track objects, but instead wanted to freely point the scope every which way as I desired. Can this be done or does the mount restrict you to tracking only?
And just a question on 8 inch scopes. I'm aware that if you look through a 10 inch you see everything a bit brighter, and that some objects can be seen in an 10 inch whilst not in an 8 inch. Just wondering if you used an 8 inch for an long exposure astrophotograph would some stuff that is invisible to the eye in an 8 inch actually be seen when taking a photo through the 8 inch? Ie, the photo would collect light for long enough to make out the object when the eye couldn't? Therefore it could possibly deliver what a 10 inch can?
Wow! What a great thread.
I've been in the same situation for the past few months, wanting to upgrade my scope. Currently have a 70mm Refractor that my partner and I bought earlier this year. What was intended to start out as just a casual thing, has now really turned into quite an obsession and I well and truly have caught the bug!
What I want in a telescope has been very similar to what Jowel wanted, and have had my eye on the 8" Newt with the HEQ5 mount for a while. But as always, there are so many options out there that I have never really been 100% sure what to buy - whether SCT or larger Refractor or DOB.
However, after reading through the replies here my mind has certainly been made up and will continue saving away and hopefully be looking through this scope in a few months time!
This is my first post, but have been reading through the forum for a while now and I've learnt so much just from reading. Look forward to speaking with you all more!
20kg for the HEQ5 mount is massive! Geez. I think I'll be needing a trolley to carry everything from the car to a setup place. Out of curiousity, how much would an HEQ6 weigh?
Also, just say that during a night of observation I didn't want to track objects, but instead wanted to freely point the scope every which way as I desired. Can this be done or does the mount restrict you to tracking only?
And just a question on 8 inch scopes. I'm aware that if you look through a 10 inch you see everything a bit brighter, and that some objects can be seen in an 10 inch whilst not in an 8 inch. Just wondering if you used an 8 inch for an long exposure astrophotograph would some stuff that is invisible to the eye in an 8 inch actually be seen when taking a photo through the 8 inch? Ie, the photo would collect light for long enough to make out the object when the eye couldn't? Therefore it could possibly deliver what a 10 inch can?
Hi Jowel,
No, not really, 20Kg is easily handled in the components, ie, the tripod, the head, the tube and the counter weights, all very manageable separately (and better for them as you dont whack it on things and scratch or drop them.)
YES, definitely more details and greater reach when taking a photo through the scope than visually as the CMOS or CCD on the camera can STARE at the object for much longer and is MUCH more sensitive to low light than our eyes, so if you can see it with your eyes as a small blob, when you take a picture of it, you WILL see more and also get the colours like in my M20 Trifid shot attached. You DONT see those colours in the eyepiece.
When Visually touring the sky, you simply set the scope's controller to 800x slew and then DRIVE with the up/down & left right cursor pad to point the scope wherever you want it to point.
BEST fun for visual is take a Night's Highlights tour and the scope will cycle through a list of interesting fuzzies, nebulae and clusters visible to the scope for that time of the night. AWESOME fun and all you have to do is sit back and let the scope find the stuff for you.
You can also loosen the clutch knobs and manually point the scope, but its MUCH more fun driving it like a Tank Commander and slewing your turret to where you want.
Trust me, I am a bit of a techno freak and love cool electronic things, and this is one COOL gadget to play with when out under the stars. PLUS, there is the added bonus of being able to take some kick ass photos as well.
An 8 inch seems to be the ideal size. I mean, if I were to get a 10 inch, it would be longer (so more of a problem in taking places), the scope and mount would be heavier and larger, and it would cost more. Yes, it might deliver more things to see, but would it be practical? Am I likely to grab it and go see? Or would it more likely gather dust?
As a beginner I feel the 8 inch will deliver on my expectations and also be easy to take everywhere, meaning it would get a good deal of use. And, it seems that the astrophotography capabilities of the scope would allow the 8 inch scope's potential to be exploited and expanded even further.
It's sorta like having an acoustic guitar compared to an electric guitar. Most of the time I play my acoustic because it's so much easier to grab and play compared to all the effort required to play the electric guitar. Or, sorta like buying a mountain bike - you don't need the wizz bang dual suspension, expensive super bike to have fun. It's better just to get a decent bike that will do the job and make you happy. Something that won't cost the world and will deliver the goods. Always.
Ok time to stop ranting and start drinking my longneck. Tonight it's Coopers.
Interesting stuff indeed.
Last edited by Mountain_Wanderer; 23-09-2010 at 06:45 PM.
Just say I buy this scope and mount and really really get into astrophotography. If I one day decide I want to upgrade the scope, could I perhaps retain the HEQ5 mount and get a new scope such as a refractor? If so, would any type of refractor be comfortable on the HEQ5 mount, no matter what size I one day get?
The most common criticism of Newt on an EQ mount for photography is they're vulnerable to wind (large surface area) and a bit awkward to balance well. Once you get past the 8" I think these issues really get quite tricky - the engineers are happy to tweak it all, but mere mortals can get frustrated.
For astrophotography, you really don't want to put much more the 10kg on the HEQ5. I'm not a refractor guy, but I think a high quality 4" refractor might come in around 10kg. You'll have lots to learn and figure out before you need to buy other scopes though.
I suggest people have a look at ezystyles website to see what a well set up Newt rig can do:
I woke up thismorning with a question. Sure, if I get this scope and mount all seems well. But, what additional equipment do you need for astrophotography? I presume a camera of some sort? Webcam, software etc etc etc. How much extra dosh would I be forking out to take photos through this scope?
I originally started this thread expecting to pay $800. But then it quickly went toup $1400. And now additional dosh for astro exquipment could take it past $2000 possibly? Geez...
Perhaps I should do all this in stages. Maybe the best thing is to buy a dobsonian first, then later buy the mount when I collect enough paychecks, then buy the photo equipment. I'm not sure if I can do it all in one hit
Well, this brings me to an important question here. If I'm only going to get a dob now, then I might as well get a 10 inch dob and not an 8 inch. A 10 inch in the short term would deliver many more things for observational astronomy, plus in the long term would be much better for astrophotography - or so I think anyway. As I'll buy the mount later, I can gradually save the money to do so, plus get all the photo equipment later too. My concern though is that the 10 inch is 1.2m long, slightly longer than the 8 inch 1m version. Does anyone have one? What is the exact length and can it fit in a small car boot? And from what I hear I'd need to get an HEQ6 mount, not a HEQ5. How much money does a HEQ6 mount go for these days? And is the weight similar to a HEQ5 or massively larger? And is it longer?
I need to work out if a 10 inch would be practical considering my needs. Is it just too big or is it managable?
My head is hurting again...
Last edited by Mountain_Wanderer; 24-09-2010 at 08:07 AM.
they are both the same length. about 1.1m the 10" is only fatter.
there is some decent information in here.
Pitfall. the 10" is heavier than the 8" and to properly mount it you will need a minimum of a EQ6 (though not really sufficient) at the lower end though a G11 is better or even a Titan for not the best mount but a sufficient mount for the shear size of a Newtonian. Photography is a gradual thing unless your happy to slip 4-5k for a budget beginner system and 5-7k for a intermediate system up front. much less than what i have just specified you'll be missing parts.
Coma in a 10" is nasty and unless you are using high end collimation equipment it starts on my images at about 50% image scale where as the 8" its 75% possibly a little further. I guess in the end its upto what YOU want out of it. the more you want the more you pay...
Though if i was you ide just go buy something I have seen that you have been filling your head with more and more information for a fair while now instead of actually getting out there and seeing it with your own eyes. It isn't till you get out and start using this equipment that you will learn what is needed for what it is that interests you. There will never be a "catch all" scope that will do everything that can be observed/photographed perfectly. You are on the right track with a dob. save your sanity
Brendan
Last edited by bmitchell82; 24-09-2010 at 10:46 AM.
Thanks Brendan. yeah interesting on the 10 inch. Perhaps an 8 inch would be more appropriate for what I'm looking for.
Thing is, I notice that the 8 inch Skywatcher dobsonians on sale have 1200mm focal lengths (these are SW680 models?), whilst the 8 inch tubes on the HEQ5 mounts have 1000mm focal lengths (SW600 models?).
If I were to buy an 8 inch dob now, and later attach it to an HEQ5 mount then I'd prefer getting the 1000mm long version. Is it possoble to find a Skywatcher dobsonian setup with the 1000mm length? If not is it easy to organise one with a shop?
to IIS. Glad to have you on board.
at the object for much longer and is MUCH more sensitive to low light than our eyes, so if you can see it with your eyes as a small blob, when you take a picture of it, you WILL see more and also get the colours like in my M20 Trifid shot attached. You DONT see those colours in the eyepiece.
