Automating focus

Paul Haese · #1 07-10-2011, 07:43 AM

Ok, I am going to automate my focus on my scopes. I am planning on using robfocus units on both the Tak and the feathertouch focusors. Software is focus max and maxim. I plan on using ACP for automation.

My questions so far are these.

1. Do I need ACP before I can autofocus? Am I right in thinking that maxim combined with focus max can automate focus without my imput?

2. Do I need ACP immediately to get focus to swing onto a GV2 star and then back to the imaging target? I think this is a yes but wanted to know what others think.

3. What autofocus systems do other use? This seems the best system and I am trying to take the advice of Mark, who has been 100% correct with other automation systems in the past.

The main idea is that I want to be able to set this up and then not have to check focus every hour myself. Its all part of the automation process and leading to the end point. Data collection uninterrupted by SNAFU.

bert (Brett) · #2 07-10-2011, 07:53 AM

Focusmax works stand alone, but you cannot get maxim to periodically call it in an imaging session. You maybe able to with a script, but this is beyond my capability.

I personally use ccdautopilot. I did try acp, but I found the GUI of ccdap5 a lot easier, on a clear night I have 2 complete observatories running with autopilot very successfully. The backup service of autopilot is excellent as well, it's usually tick the options rather than writing a program to do an imaging run like in acp.

My 2c.

Brett

Paul Haese · #3 07-10-2011, 08:11 AM

Ah all interesting Brett. I was originally going to go with CCDautopilot but was advised that getting a guide star after a flip was problematic. That also includes a rotation 180 degrees from previous setting. Are you using a rotator Brett and have you had this problem?

bert (Brett) · #4 07-10-2011, 08:26 AM

Yes, I use a Pyxis on the eq6 rig. And I am looking for another for the remote rig.

And no problems with guide stars after meridian flip, or ever. Ccdap 4 I found to be difficult to use with a rotator. In version5 all the difficulties I had have been addressed, and the issues I had in 4 were due more to my laziness With the the pyxis software rather than the program.

John smith the author is fantastic with his back up service.

Brett

Bassnut (Fred) · #5 07-10-2011, 08:32 AM

Aquirestar in Focusmax (with DL and platesolving) will automatically slew to the nearest star of a set mag (say 5), focus, and slew back.

bert (Brett) · #6 07-10-2011, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Aquirestar in Focusmax (with DL and platesolving) will automatically slew to the nearest star of a set mag (say 5), focus, and slew back.

Aquire star is not used with an automation program, the automation program has it's own focus star selection routine. Ccdap's focus star selection is called skystar. In ccdap you select the mag range of the guide star, and it selects a guide star automatically at the mag and altitude selected.

Brett

Paul Haese · #7 07-10-2011, 08:58 AM

This is all good guys, CCDAP is cheaper too. What operating system are you guys using? I am using Win 7, I remember last time some things are glichy in various OS.

This will be all with a view to eventually going fully auto with the obs as well and imaging from the City on nights I cannot get down to the obs.

Paul Haese · #8 07-10-2011, 09:04 AM

Just read through the maxim manual on setup of autofocus and that all seems pretty straight forward. Working out the 1/2 flux might be interesting.

bert (Brett) · #9 07-10-2011, 09:41 AM

I run win 7 64bit in both obs. As of about about 6 months ago, I think win 7 overtook xp as the best observatory os. Avoid vista like the plague.

Brett

frolinmod · #10 07-10-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

This is all good guys, CCDAP is cheaper too.

My gosh Paul, that's the understatement of the year.

How do you guys who use ACP (and with the scheduler even more, ouch!) personally justify not just the initial payment, but the yearly maintenance payments too? I know Bob's gotta eat too, but wow.

bert (Brett) · #11 07-10-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frolinmod

My gosh Paul, that's the understatement of the year.

How do you guys who use ACP (and with the scheduler even more, ouch!) personally justify not just the initial payment, but the yearly maintenance payments too? I know Bob's gotta eat too, but wow.

Hey, Im not trying to starve Bob. I bought pinpoint!

Brett

Moon (James) · #12 07-10-2011, 01:54 PM

Paul,
My advice is to try and get Focusmax up and running first, in case you aren't already using it. It takes a while to get it running smoothly. If you follow this guide step by step, you'll be ok:
http://www.flemingastrophotography.com/focusmax.html
Also make sure you get the latest verison from the focusmax yahoo group (don't use the web download version - it's out of date)

After you have that running, then the next step would be ACP or CCAP.
James

Paul Haese · #13 07-10-2011, 05:39 PM

Thanks guys.

Ernie, yes the shock of the purchase price of ACP did seem quite high. I also bought Pinpoint which is nothing short of great.

Brett, that is good news about win 7. I have the starter pack loaded on my netbook which does the imaging run. I will need to get a USB hub to run all the etc equipment I plan on running.

James I will use that link (thank you) and I will check out the yahoo group for the latest version.

Then I will get either of those two. I am glad to hear that CCDap will work well too.

frolinmod · #14 07-10-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Ernie, yes the shock of the purchase price of ACP did seem quite high.

Wow, did you buy an ACP license? Which one? Did you buy the scheduler license too? That would seem like heaven to me.

At least in theory. Practice would seem to be quite a bit more, ah, complicated. If you bought those, it'll be interesting to see how well you get along with implementing them productively.

Quote:

....good news about win 7. I have the starter pack loaded on my netbook which does the imaging run.

Whoa, you're actually able to use Windows 7 Starter Edition for anything? I thought at least Home Edition was required to use Windows 7 for any useful purpose. I'll be darned.

Paul Haese · #15 07-10-2011, 07:40 PM

No way, not spent that money on a license. Not decided, but cost is a significant factor.

jase (Jason) · #16 07-10-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

1. Do I need ACP before I can autofocus? Am I right in thinking that maxim combined with focus max can automate focus without my imput?

As Fred and James note, you can autofocus with Maxim and FocusMax, but its not at the level of complete automation of which I believe you are trying to achieve. You still need something to trigger an autofocus routine and thats where observatory automation software comes in. James is spot on, you need to ensure FocusMax works flawlessly before overlaying any automation tools. If it doesn't work in this manner, automation is next to useless.

Do you have FocusMax performing the AcquireStar routine today where it platesolves and slews to an appropriate magnitude star and commence the focus run, then slew back to the original position? If not, get this sorted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

2. Do I need ACP immediately to get focus to swing onto a GV2 star and then back to the imaging target? I think this is a yes but wanted to know what others think.

No. As noted above, FocusMax will do all that. It will platesolve to determine its current position and determine 3 or more candidate focus stars. It will then slew (and center if desired) to the first suitable star based on configured parameters such as altitude and magnitude. The focus routine then runs, once complete it will slew back to the original position. G2V star? The star doesn't need to be G2V. Usually something between mag 4 and 7 will work fine. Don't want it to be too dim as focus exposures will be too long, too bright and the stellar profile will not be calculated correctly. Most observatory automation software will simply pass off the decision to FocusMax as to of which star to use focus to FocusMax.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

3. What autofocus systems do other use? This seems the best system and I am trying to take the advice of Mark, who has been 100% correct with other automation systems in the past.

FocusMax is the defacto standard for autofocus systems. MaximDL has elementary focusing algorithms as does CCDSoft but they don't compare to the functionality achieved in FocusMax.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

The main idea is that I want to be able to set this up and then not have to check focus every hour myself. Its all part of the automation process and leading to the end point. Data collection uninterrupted by SNAFU.

Yep. Easily done with observatory automation software. You are on the right track, just take small steps to begin with. When ready establish filter offsets to introduce even greater image acquisition efficiency with your focusing.

If its of any relevance, I use ACP Scheduler with ACP coupled to FocusMax. The set up is autonomous. I upload plans and out spits data. I don't manually start imaging runs nor determine what target to shoot and when. The Scheduler dispatcher process does this based on plan input such as moon up/down/avoidance, object altitude, etc. I recognise that such a level of automation is not everyone's cup of tea as some like to sit beside their imaging rig, watch guide stars, logs and make subsequent equipment tweaks. For me, its not the journey as I've travelled the road before, its the destination (output result) such as post processing where I prefer to spend my time.

jase (Jason) · #17 07-10-2011, 08:09 PM

I should also add that don't make a swift choice on observatory automation software. Research the options, pro/cons. Much of it depends on what you want to get out the software. I've had the pleasure of using CCDcommander, ACP and CCDAutoPilot. They all come with strengths and weaknesses. I'm going to resist getting involved in a cost discussion, but simply state that people fail to realise the importance of software. They drop huge dollars on hardware (OTA's and big red mounts) yet can't justify spending a few thousand on software. In particular, observatory automation software makes your hardware investment work for you and can improve productivity.

frolinmod · #18 07-10-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jase

....people fail to realise the importance of software. They drop huge dollars on hardware (OTA's and big red mounts) yet can't justify spending a few thousand on software.

What's even worse is that even though I write software and like to get paid, I still have that particular mental disfunction myself!

Paul Haese · #19 09-10-2011, 10:18 AM

Thanks all the replies. All very imformative and plenty to think about here. For now I will get the Robofocus here, install that and get my v curves working, with focusmax before looking at this next step of further automation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jase

I should also add that don't make a swift choice on observatory automation software.

Don't worry Jase. I have been looking and the purpose of this thread is to find out which is better. Price point is an important consideration, but I want the software to work more than the price. I wasted money on CCDsoft, so I have learnt my lesson here.

Total smooth automation is my primary goal here. If it means I pay more for software then so be it.

DavidTrap (David) · #20 09-10-2011, 11:04 AM

Paul - if you get a reply from Robofocus, can you let me know. I've been trying to contact them for the past few days (multiple e-mails to multiple addresses) without success. Anyone know if they've gone out of business?

ta
DT