Help On Choosing A Premium 14mm Eye Piece.

[Suzy]

Hi everyone,

I need your help.


I’m after a premium eyepiece in a 14mm focal length. Bare in mind that I have a 10 inch dob which is a fast scope at 4.7. Therefore I would prefer if possible to draw on the experience of the users of the same.

My requirements are that the fov is at least 68 degrees (65 will be a consideration), and that the fov remains tac sharp to the edges. I’m training to be a serious visual observer you see, so I need every bit of detail I can squeeze out of an eyepiece. My budget is no more than $300 which I should be able to achieve second hand or new overseas.

My choice of ep was initially a Pentax XW14, but have since heard from someone that has the same scope as mine, that the fov at around 20 deg suffers a lot of field curvature.
I know many are probably going to suggest a Nagler, but with a type 1, I had plenty of trouble seeing through it due to kidney beaning (perhaps it’s the way I view, don’t know), so am weary Am still open, I guess.


Many thanks and I look forward to your valued responses.


Kind regards,
Suzy.

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Suzy,

I have a Ba'ader Hyperion 13mm eyepiece which I picked up here on Ice Trade for a steal of around $120. Its a 68 degree EP and I love it to bits.

Slight curvature I would say using my F5 Dob, but really not that noticeable. Quality and fit/finish is beautiful, almost comparible to my Pentax XF 8.5mm. Its also extremely robust and solid. No fragile bits to break off. Its colour is also very warm to look through. Pleasant views that are easy on the eye. FOV and eye relief is quite good and immersive as well.

The real beauty of this eyepiece comes down to its versatility.... You can remove the front lens element, which is also the 1.25" EP barrel to create a 26mm 2" barrel EP!!! Thats TWO focal lengths in one! Awesome.

It also has T ring mounts on it as well as rubber eyecup and comes in a sexy leatherette type pouch.

New price on Andrews is $199 each and I would highly recommend this FL EP as I have one and its the first EP to go into the 8" or the 12" scopes.

Its a cracker and not too expensive. Save the extra cash for the next purchase....such as a cake or pressy for me for being so helpful

Worth a look!

Cheers

Chris

[MikeyB (Michael)]

Two suggestions, Suzy - both superb eyepieces I believe, although neither is exactly what you ask for, but then your spec is quite a big ask:

13mm Vixen LVW (a little more than you want to pay)

14mm Televue Radian (easily affordable at present)

[Suzy]

Chris: Many thanks for your input on the Baader. But have you tried it on a 10 inch dob at 4.7?

Mikey: I'm a very open to the LVW as I currently own the 22mm. I just find the eye cup (even folded down) a bit uncomfortable on my eye socket (I'm sure it's just the shape of my eye socket). Tac sharp to the edge, brilliant pin point stars. I love the views it delivers. Just was hoping for more than 65deg at a 14mm f/length. I can easily afford an LVW overseas . It will be the one I fall back on if nothing else suits.
Regarding the Radians, they are only 60 degrees. Many thanks Mikey for your input.

[Suzy]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

Save the extra cash for the next purchase....such as a cake or pressy for me for being so helpful
Chris

I will thanks everyone for their help with a pressy at the end of this thread with my famous, knock out, authentic satay recipe. How's that?!
I like to pretend I'm a bit of a Nigella in the kitchen at times (just need her body working for me ).

[erick (Eric)]

19mm Panoptic, second hand? Maybe fl a bit longer than you want. $215 new at Bintel with the current TV sale.

[koputai (Jason)]

13mm Nagler Type 6 !!!

The Type 6's are easier to look through than the older versions. They are a good wide field, they are very small and light, and ON SPECIAL at the moment for $263 brand spanking new! You will never get a new Nagler cheaper.

The 13mm Type 6 is a lovely eyepiece.

Cheers,
Jason.

[Suzy]

Originally Posted by erick

19mm Panoptic, second hand? Maybe fl a bit longer than you want. $215 new at Bintel with the current TV sale.

Hi Erick, yep, just a tad too long as my 22 LVW is too close to it. But thank you anyway Eric. Appreciate your help.

Originally Posted by koputai

13mm Nagler Type 6 !!!

The Type 6's are easier to look through than the older versions. They are a good wide field, they are very small and light, and ON SPECIAL at the moment for $263 brand spanking new! You will never get a new Nagler cheaper.

The 13mm Type 6 is a lovely eyepiece.

Cheers,
Jason.

Hmmmm
Come to think of it, I remember when you bought it how happy you were, Jason I think I may have even delighted in your enthusiasm on your thread.
I realise Naglers perform well on fast scopes. I would assume my scope would pass the test Are you the same dob user as I to give a critical opinion? I can't see your signature while i'm doing this reply I like that price I'll wait to hear from others on this ep. though. But I thank you for your very helpful input

[mercedes_sl1970]

Hi

Another option is the Denkmeir 14mm. I've found it works rather well in an 8" f6 dob. There's a review here: http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2087

Andrew

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Suzy,

Not sure if there is much difference between my 12" F5 and your 10" F4.7??

Anyhoo, I just noticed that AEC sells Pentax XF 14mm on their website, my 8.5mm XF cost me about $230 a while back so you might want to pencil in calling AEC and see what they can do the XF14 for?

Pound for pound, the XF nails the Baader, I just suggested the Baader because it has a wider ocular and is physically bigger in the barrel and for me with my Fred Flinstone hands, less likely to drop than the more expensive XF. I was put on to the XF when I was looking for a quality sub 10mm EP and considering the Radians etc.

But, as a favourite EP, the versatility, solidity and size of the Baader does it for me, the views are 99% of the XF, which is an excellent EP in its own right, just not too many people have them so I am not sure if I will get any support here. Certainly Televues have a reputation of being the bees knees, so I doubt you can go wrong there with the suggestions offered so far.

Mmmmm satay! Now that's tasty! yeah!

Cheers for now,

Chris

[Suzy]

Andrew, many thanks for that link - it was well written. Interesting that the Denkmeir is tested against the Pentax XW, Nagler T6 & Ethos. More interesting, that the XW came last because it failed in the field curvature test. Ethos being the winner. I did forget that the televues tended to have a warmer colour. For this reason, I had backed away from them previously as I tend to prefer neutral.

Chris, from my previous research when buying my LVW, it was said that the Baaders were trying to imitate the LVW's and are indeed a worthy contender. It would be interesting to hear input from others as well on the Baaders at the same f/ratio as my scope. A brand new Baader I think sells for $250 compared to $450 for the LVW (tho overseas, same price as Baader). If I had to chose between either, I would go with the LVW though; purley because I own one and am familiar with it's performance.

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Suzy,

$199 for a spanking new Baader (Andrews Comms)

Or, you could buy 6 for a lazy $1140!

Cheers

Chris

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Hi Suzy,

I own a "boxfull" of premium eyepieces. In the 12mm to 15mm focal length range I own the following:- 12mm UO HD ortho, 12mm Nagler T4, 13mm ETHOS, 14mm Pentax XW. I have also used a 12mm Radian, 12mm Nagler T2, 13mm Nagler T1, 13mm Nagler T6, 13mm Vixen LVW, 13mm Baader Hyperion, 13mm Orion Stratus, 14mm Meade UWA S4000, 14mm Meade UWA Series 5000, 14mm Denkmeier, 14mm TV Radian and a 15mm TV Panoptic.

Of all of those that I own and have used I would buy the 14mm Denkmeier, each and every time. It excels in every criterion and measure of optical performance and has no negatives. It is optically superb and has excellent eye relief and comfort. I don't need to sell my eyepieces and start again but if I did I would buy the 14mm Denk without hesitation. It has a 65 deg AFOV which suits me perfectly, as does the 70 degrees of the pentax Xw's. $300 will go very close to getting you a new one.

http://www.denkmeier.com/pdf/Eyepieces.pdf

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2087

They are always advertised as a pair for binoviewing, but they can be purchased individually from just about all dealers.

Cheers,
John B

[mercedes_sl1970]

Hi Suzy - I meant to say in my post that if you search Cloudynights for the Denk 14mm you'll find quite a few threads. The general consensus tends to reflect John B's comments. I only have the Denk at the 14mm focal length hence I didn't offer any comparisons. It is sharp on axis and virtually across the field, has a very neutral colour rendition. I also find that 65 (-70) AFOV suits me perfectly.

Good luck.

Andrew

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Suzy,

Listen, Bugger the Pentax and the Denk......

Buy a Televue 100 degree FOV 13mm from Bintel for $559 while you can.

Yeah its more expensive by miles, but you will fall into it and never want to come out. 20% off is too hard to pass up.

Simple.

Cheers

Chris

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

*cough* Explore Scientific 14mm 82 Degree's N2 - $99US sale at the moment *cough*

No but seriously. Great eyepiece, about half price at the moment, performs really well in my 12". And I find at a dark sky site, the contrast is good enough that using an OIII filter on m46 to see the plantary nebula in the cluster didnt really provide a noticeable improvement. Very well correct. Very flat field. Pin point stars to the edge. Theres also no kidney beaning or black out. About 15 mm of eye relief so thats decent too. Just a champion of a eyepiece. As some describe on CN. 9/10ths performance of a nagler but 1/3rd the price.

Did I mention the half price sale at the moment? With the current exchange rate its about the same in AU. With the money you save over the other premium premium brands, you can buy another telescope.

Or umm, more eyepieces. If comparing to the price of an ethos, maybe a car?

[Paddy (Patrick)]

Wouldn't argue with John B about eyepieces and haven't tried a Denk, but from my experience a 13mm Nagler type 4 is a great ep. Loved it in my GSO 12" and still do in my f4.9 16". I do prefer 82 deg AFOV to 65. And no kidney beaning with this ep.

[dannat (Daniel)]

forget the baader & get the denk -i can't believe i didn't pick up one when frontier had em on special for 199 a yr or 2 ago. (though i am anti-TV)

[Suzy]

Thank you all for your input so far. I have been doing a lot reading on everything all of you'll have suggested.

John B, I feel priveledged to have you comment on my thread - thank you. I have taken notice & listened to your advice in the past which is why I ended up with my XW & LVW.

I realise of course I won't get everything I'm after in the one eye piece and will have to make a compromise somewhere- whether it be fov or eye relief. Logic tells me eye relief is more important than fov. Ultimately, one needs comfort at the eyepiece. My eyes are slowly going long sighted and for that reason, my other premium eye pieces have 20mm eye relief to factor this in for the future when I may need to have my glasses on.

I would also prefer a 14mm focal length. I think the 13mm is too close to my 10mm. I also want to barlow down to 7mm, as I find this focal lenghth hits the sweet spot on planets before conditions start to interfere.

Here is what I've summarised so far...

Denkmeir
I have sent Frontier Optics an email for a price of the Denk. I have no clue where to look for them overseas or how much they are there. They seem the same specs as the LVW (20mm eye relief, 65 fov). However, the Denks come in a 14mm (which is what I'm after), and the LVW in a 13mm.

Explore Scientific
900 g ? Seriously?
So I weighed my heaviest ep - the XW. It comes in at 403g. I then weighed it with the barlow on (as I often used it barlowed without any problem). That comes in totaled at 800g. I can manage the extra 100g - (just!) without it being a major issue on my 10" dob. However, there is no way known I would even dream of throwing a barlow on. That would make its total weight 1kg 300g. Plain ridiculous . And there goes my non usable focal length of 7mm. Plus, it has 9 elements, whoa that's a lot of glass isn't it?!

Nagler T/6 13mm
The 13mm of eye relief concerns me. Also the CN review says

However, the small eye-lens and shorter eye relief of the 13T6 limited its potential to easily take advantage of the full 82 degrees. Thus, the difference in field of view between the two eyepieces was not as significant as one might initially expect, and the D14 was certainly very engaging in this regard. The longer eye relief of the D14 also enabled more comfortable viewing.

With the 20% sale at the moment they are $268 from Bintel. Making them cheaper than buying overseas and paying freight.

I would welcome some comments on the eye relief, particularly people that are wearing glasses at this ep, and also with respect to what CN said in the review (regarding fov).

Baader Hyperion 13mm
Chris has been the only one that has given any input on this. I just could never see the Baader's as being classed as premium. I wonder if I'm an eyepiece snob

And to throw another eye piece into the works..
I find my 22mm Vixen LVW sharp to the edges with pin point stars. A big ask at that f/length. I would imagine if it performs this well at 22mm, 13mm should be just as good.

BUT... it seems I can only get a 14mm in the Denk.

Please answer....
Is 13mm too close to my 10mm? My next length is 22mm. Or not much difference between 14 to 13. Help. I'm thinking I need the 14mm.
I want to use this f/length to search for galaxies and planetary nebs. And when the 10mm is affected by seeing (on stars).

I am incredibly grateful to everyones help so far. Thank you.

[Paddy (Patrick)]

I use a 13 and 9 mm nagler and find the difference between them very useful. I don't find them too close and I suspect that 1mm less gap won't be noticeable. Regarding glasses increasing long-sightedness should not be an issue as the focuser of your scope compensates. You should only need glasses at the eyepiece if you have an astigmatism. If you don't already have an astigmatic eye you're not likely to develop one so you are unlikely to ever need glasses for observing. My eyes are progressively becoming long sighted and it makes no difference.