Is spelling old fashioned?

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

I saw something on TV last night about spelling. One comment really made me shake my head, that spelling is old fashioned and has been surpassed by technology. What the...?

Isn't it bad enough that we have a generation that can't add up, ask them to buy the milk (~$3) and bread (~$3) and they need a $20 just in case $10 isn't enough! And whoa if you give them a 5 and some gold. I am always amazed at the looks I get when I give a cash register attendent some notes and odd change for a purchase, and then even more amazement when they give me one note and a coin change.

I don't have a problem with people making the odd typo and letting it slip through a quick proof read, but some people just can't spell. I don't believe spelling can ever be "old fashioned", if you spell a word wrong and the person at the other end can't spell either and spells the word differently, how do you know they "heard" what you "said"! Imagine signing a legal agreement that is full of typos, or interpreting a will.... I know there a number of people even on this forum who's spelling is atrocious and they make me shake my head at time, or a bit of a giggle.

Even the standards of plain English grammar are becoming almost non existent. My pet peeve is "then" and "than"....both words mean completely different things people!, their similar spelling is the ONLY thing they have in common. "Then" is a temporaral reference, "I will do this THEN I will do that". "Than" is a comparative reference, "this is bigger THAN that". "This is bigger then that"....then what?...."This is bigger then...I will go home?" To and too is the other pair. "I go TO work with you TOO (also)" or "These pants are TOO (excessively) big for me".

I think they should spend at least some part of education teaching the things that people just have to KNOW, you can find out what 1345*3453 is, but you should know 6 * 5 = 30, and having commited this to memory you can easily find out what 5 * 6 is.

Well, enough of a rave...time to get back to werk!

[Octane (Humayun)]

Wot r u tlkn bowt

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Is spelling "old fashioned"? It better not be! Is caring about it old fashioned? That's probably more the question you're asking.

Firstly, if anyone gets upset over the question being asked, then I think that's a bit silly. It's a perfectly valid discussion topic. You didn't ask why someone can or cannot spell - you asked whether it was still important to think it is relevant to our modern life.

Spelling and correct grammar (not "grammer" ) are THE backbone of our language. Without them we'll sink into linguistic anarchy, plain and simple. Correct practise and observation of these fundamentals are the only way we can reliably communicate with each other using a standard method. Yes, spelling changes over time as our language evolves to accomodate new events, inventions and the like, but in this case everyone should then endeavour to use the same accepted spelling for any particular word at that time. Technology should improve our ability to communicate using this standard, not dilute it.

Those that can't spell, I can understand - there are quite a number of words to remember and we all forget from time to time. Being able to spell correctly the whole time is not a measure of intelligence - it is a measure of care. I look up my dictionary regularly as do most people who care about our language. Those that can't spell and really think it's unnecessary - I'm sorry, but I don't get your mindset. Do you just not wish to communicate properly?

Grammar is just as, if not more, important than spelling. It's the way we use and place our words to define our message in a sentence to ensure its (note: no apostrophe in "its" in this case - we are not saying "it is" or "it has") context correctly. Without grammatical control the real message is lost and is then open to misinterpretation.

Try inserting some purposeful spelling mistakes in your next line of computer code some time, and see where that gets you if you think it's unimportant... LOL! I guess that being in the advertising game, it's too important to get wrong. If we design a campaign and spell something incorrectly in a $six figure newspaper or magazine ad, it reflects badly on the customer. Chalk up one lost client....

[koputai (Jason)]

I'm with you Trev. I'm a bit of a pedant when it comes to correct
spelling, grammar (please note the spelling Trev!), and punctuation.
This 'than' and 'then' confusion that has been increasing over the
last couple of years has really flabbergasted me. Even people I know
who are highly intelligent have been known to confuse the two. I simply
can't understand how the two can be confused at all. The other old
chestnut that keeps popping up, quite regularly on IIS, is the 'bought'
versus 'brought', as in, "I went to the shop and brought a new scope".
Aaaaarrrrrggghhhhhh!!!!

Anyhow, cul8r
Jason.

[astroron (Ron)]

Trevor , you have opened a can of worms
I was attacked on this forum earlier this year on this very subject even though I did not complain about peoples spelling.
Good Luck

[Mike21 (Michael)]

I'm chiming in on this one too. My father once looked at a primary school composition of mine and said "Don't you get taught how to spell". He added a few adjectives that the moderator would not approve of on IIS. I looked at him blankly and he asked me why we were not taught spelling or grammAr. I relayed the question to my sixth class teacher. She told me that it was all about freedom of speech. I relayed that to my father, to which he replied "How the (moderator) can you speak freely if you cannot (moderator) speak properly in the first place". Of course his actual manner of speaking was again a little too forceful for the moderators, but I have obviously remembered the occassion quite clearly.

[FredSnerd (Claude)]

OK

I'm out of step here and i know I'm gonna get shouted down but what the heck.

Yeah I agree that spelling is old fashioned and the sooner we get rid of the notion the better and really if your only argument for it is well thats the way i was brought up, its not good enough I'm affraid. The world changes.

I think there should only be one rule of spelling and grammer. Just one rule. Its the writers responsibility to make themselves understood. Thats all. No rights and wrongs about how you say something Just say it so people understand you. And if they dont you've failed.

I wonder if I'll have any friends on this thread after this. I hope so.

Regards

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by FredSnerd

OK

I'm out of step here and i know I'm gonna get shouted down but what the heck.

Yeah I agree that spelling is old fashioned and the sooner we get rid of the notion the better and really if your only argument for it is well thats the way i was brought up, its not good enough I'm affraid. The world changes.

I think there should only be one rule of spelling and grammer. Just one rule. Its the writers responsibility to make themselves understood. Thats all. No rights and wrongs about how you say something Just say it so people understand you. And if they dont you've failed.

I wonder if I'll have any friends on this thread after this. I hope so.

Regards

Sorry, I don't understand you.

[renormalised (Carl)]

They haven't required kids at school to undertake spelling lessons and tests for years. It's a crime, actually. We've brought up several (school) generations of people who can't read and write properly. I've seen the results of this at Uni. How anyone could get into an University not having the basic skills of reading and writing mastered to the extent that they can undertake a degree course, beggars belief in my opinion. Although, it's understandable when you consider that their teachers at school could barely accomplish reading and writing themselves. It's all because of these trendy, "socially progressive" academics (mostly in the U.S., as this is where most of the ideas have come from) who sit on their backside in their little ivory towers, dreaming up schemes to "enrich" and "empower" the student's school lives. To expand on their "creative" abilities and allow them to "find their own place" in the world. Most have never seen anything resembling reality as they've been cooped up in their strange worlds inside their offices, dreaming up seriously warped ideas about how everyone else should conduct their lives and their learning. Then everything gets adopted by the usual idiots...politicians...and everything goes out the window. Anyway, regardless of their degrees, most politicians have had poor educations. Apart from their specialisation at Uni, most would know "JS" about anything else. That's when they get "experts" to advise them, and they know even less!!.

No wonder the world is dysfunctional.

[FredSnerd (Claude)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Sorry, I don't understand you.

David i wondered how long it would take for someone to post a reply like this. Not long at all. Good. I believe it means that you did in fact understand me.
All the best

[Fossil (Jonathan)]

I have three children, now adults, and they were taught to spell phonetically at school. I asked the teacher about this and was advised that they will learn to spell correctly later in life. This never happened, and I have seen all of the above examples in their writings.
Politicians are now trying to work out why schools are doing so poorly, and their bright idea (to get themselves off the hook) is to 'dumb down' exams so everyone gets better results.

[Fossil (Jonathan)]

And here is why you cannot trust your spell checker!

I have a spelling chequer,
It came with my pea sea,
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye cannot sea.

When eye strike a quay, right a word,
I weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar wright
It shows me strait aweigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
I nose bee fore two late
And eye can put the error rite
Its rarely, rarely grate.

I've run this poem threw it
I'm shore your pleased two no,
Its letter perfect in it's weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

[bojan]

Originally Posted by Mike21

She told me that it was all about freedom of speech..........

It is amazing how deep this political correctness took roots in our everyday thinking and actioning...

I understand very well the difficulties people from other than English language speaking backgrounds could have (there are some European languages that do not require spelling like English.. mine own included).. but this of course can not be an excuse for basic inability to use English language as it is, here in Australia..
So, I am with you here, 147%.
And I am always trying my best to have my spelling and grammar correct... sometimes I am successful, sometimes not.. but at least I am trying.

[avandonk]

I am petrified if I make a post with incorrect spelling. Why is this do you ask? It is because it shows a lack of attention to detail and/or an appalling lack of correctness. I prefer to put it down to our societies complete lack of responsibility rather than any teachers lack of ability for the current 'woeful' state of spelling.

I have tried to communicate with my younger nieces and nephews and their response is cryptic at best unintelligible at worst.

We can only blame ourselves when we see this appalling behaviour as they got it from us!

Bert

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Ha HA!,

Jeez you are getting hammered on the "grammer" mistake Trevor, I was going to point that out but was beaten to it by at least 4 people.

I personally hate bad spelling, being a pedagogue myself and something that I found out recently is that the NSW state high schools are now offering Maths as an OPTIONAL subject in Year 11 & 12. Whilst this sounds very forward thinking in their marketing sound bites when they say "most students don't require maths in their professional careers or as a pre-requisite to enter a University Course" it seems to me there will be a generation ZZ which will be handing over the incorrect change and over or undercharging us at McDonald's etc for a long time to come....

Possibly great as a windfall for us who can add up in our heads, but sooner or later we'll all be stuffed.

I find it ironic that my eldest who is going into Yr11 next year can't do maths very well with respect to simple arithmetic at the shops or in life, but can easily tell me how may 50 calibre bullets he emptied into an enemy and explain the rate of fire of his off-hand weapon when smashing me into the ground if I attempt to play Halo 3 with him.

Oh well, at least I will be able to rip him off when he has to look after me in my retirement.......hang on, maybe he will still be living at home by then....bugger!

Oh, and DON'T get me started on incorrect placement or bad spelling when it comes to apostrophes and plurals! e.g. mangoe's AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Cheers

Chris

[AdrianF (Adrian)]

It never ceases to amaze me concerning the ability, or should I say lack of ability, for students to spell.
I teach engineering at the TAFE in Roma and most of my apprentices are either illiterate or cannot spell very well, how they manage to get through High School to a year 12 level without being able to spell or even read is beyond me.
One example is the word acetylene ok not a word in common household use ...but as a budding Engineer (Tradesperson) they should know the word and its spelling not assetileen, I get that often. I am not an English teacher and I shouldn't have to spend time deciphering the phonetical way young adults(?) spell.

There thats my rant for the day.....

Adrian

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

Oh, and DON'T get me started on incorrect placement or bad spelling when it comes to apostrophes and plurals! e.g. mangoe's AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Quite. What could a mango (or is that mongoe? LOL!) possibly own?

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by OneOfOne

I know there a number of people even on this forum who's spelling is atrocious

Oh Dear,

"whose" you mean.

You have to be soooo careful when posting on this subject. I like to spell properly myself and am always irritated when I trip over my own vocabulary. However it is a personal thing.

What is the purpose of language? Communication. So if you communicate effectively but with spelling errors is that a worry? Possibly not. I dunno any more.

Cheers

[Robh (Rob)]

This is part of a larger trend away from factual memorisation (e.g. rote learning) towards freedom of expression and creativity.

Children today quite often do not learn their times tables or for that matter memorise totals for simple addition combinations like 8+5 or 5+8.
There is no emphasis on correct spelling.
They aren't taught the syntax of grammar and don't have a clue when to use a comma, colon or semi-colon. They don't even know when to begin a new paragraph.
They aren't required to learn basic mathematical or scientific formulae and are usually given all the necessary formulae as part of the exam paper.
And their geographical knowledge is lacking.

The end result. Nobody puts anything to memory anymore and the brain is under-trained. Many people find it hard to even remember their mobile phone numbers.

Regards, Rob.

[renormalised (Carl)]

...and something that I found out recently is that the NSW state high schools are now offering Maths as an OPTIONAL subject in Year 11 & 12. Whilst this sounds very forward thinking in their marketing sound bites when they say "most students don't require maths in their professional careers or as a pre-requisite to enter a University Course"

You've got to be kidding me, Chris!!!! What next

I suppose you don't need maths to enter Uni to do a course in physics, or applied mathematics, engineering, or any other of the physical sciences. Oh yeah, that's right, all the new students entering Uni from now on will be doing arts majors and education<sarcasm inserted>. No...wait a minute, quite a few will be doing accounting and economics, as well as political "science" and law. That way, they can learn how to run this country in the most expedient and efficient manner possible, making it so much easier for all of us to live and get along together<sarcasm inserted>

Morons