National amateur telescope?

[Night Owl]

I had a think, and wondered what is stopping all interested parties of amateur astronomers like us raising the funds to buy a real kick arse telescope and locate it at a real kick arse location?

I'm thinking of something like this?...

http://www.astrofox.nl/index.cfm?cid=3

It could also be hooked up for remote axis through the net, and subscribed users could book in advance, and even pay a nominal fee to use the scope online, or in person.

It would also make a great focal piece (pun) for astronomy camps.

Its all possible, and would be well worth the expense wouldn't it?

[citivolus (Ric)]

Interesting idea, but I can't even begin to imagine the nightmare of maintaining the scheduling and the politics involved.

[kljucd1 (Daniel)]

Hi,

Is anything like this currently being done around the world?

Daniel...

[Jarrod]

that's a brilliant idea.

yeah, lots of time and commitment involved, but with a whole community of amateur astronomers working together its well within the realm of possibility.

Jarrod

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

You can house it in my observatory free of charge!

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

You can house it in my observatory free of charge!

thats fair. providing you move your observatory 1,505km south.

J

[Ric]

I suppose the location would be the tricky bit. No matter where it is located as in the eastern or western states somebody will miss out or be too far away.

However it still sounds like a interesting idea

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

How about someone to live at the site and be the caretaker.

Someone like . . . ummmm . . .

now who would be available and want to do it . . . .

someone from say . . Hawaii maybe

[netwolf]

A better bet is to have many smaller groups around the country. The equipment could also be sponsored by local retailers/manufacturers, that way the equipment becomes a focal point for the local community and brings more business to the local community.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by netwolf

A better bet is to have many smaller groups around the country.

They already exist, Fahim.

They are called Astronomy Clubs.

[Jarrod]

as much as i like the idea of a giant amateur telescope...

i think if we were to consider putting so much time and effort into some sort of massive project, it would be better to aim at something that would make a differance every where.

light pollution.

we all complain about it amongst each other but how many of us actually say something to our local councils and what-not regarding the issue...?

a little off topic, i know, but its worth thinking about.

J

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by Jarrod

light pollution.

we all complain about it amongst each other but how many of us actually say something to our local councils and what-not regarding the issue...?

a little off topic, i know, but its worth thinking about.

J

I have my hand up.

We are about to get our new 'Full cut-off' lights for our whole little town. All because council was approached and the submission done properly. And I'm not the only one. Other small country towns have already made a change in lighting due to someone stepping forward. And I have heard, through our council, that other towns have submissions in at the moment too.

So we aren't 'all' doing nothing but complaining about it in here.

But we are small and medium size country towns. Now it's time for you city folk to get together and put in proper submissions to larger councils. With 'energy' being the talk of the town nowdays, half your battle is done for you

[Phil]

Great idear nice skys in Rocky i will look after it.
Phil

[Night Owl]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

I have my hand up.

We are about to get our new 'Full cut-off' lights for our whole little town. All because council was approached and the submission done properly. And I'm not the only one. Other small country towns have already made a change in lighting due to someone stepping forward. And I have heard, through our council, that other towns have submissions in at the moment too.

So we aren't 'all' doing nothing but complaining about it in here.

But we are small and medium size country towns. Now it's time for you city folk to get together and put in proper submissions to larger councils. With 'energy' being the talk of the town nowdays, half your battle is done for you

Hey mate, could you put up the documentation of your lights out submission to your local council? It would give others a head start on putting forward their own lights out submission.

I might have to talk to the owner of the local super roadhouse that opened up. Man, talk about pumping light in to the sky.

[mlcolbert]

But we are small and medium size country towns. Now it's time for you city folk to get together and put in proper submissions to larger councils. With 'energy' being the talk of the town nowdays, half your battle is done for you [/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, I think I know the immediate response from councils in the city;

we have security concerns, the number of crimes in the area require us to maintain adequate street lighting for the safety of pedestrians walking home late at night, to provide extra light for motorists to avoid accidents and also for the security of our traders so that there is not an increase in thefts in 'high street' stores, as well as reducing the fears of the community for break ins at the homes of families and the elderly.

Councils would probably also cite statistical 'evidence' provided by the state police to support their stance.

How to get around that? Reduce the stressors of living in large populated areas? Now, that's a challenge!

michael (wanting to move SOON)

[Jarrod]

wow ken, thats awesome!!!

yes, please post the documentation of your 'lights out' submission.

Originally Posted by mlcolbert

Unfortunately, I think I know the immediate response from councils in the city;

we have security concerns, the number of crimes in the area require us to maintain adequate street lighting for the safety of pedestrians walking home late at night....

that's exactly how Geelong's council would respond, they're adding more lights all the time. not just street lights, most are lights in places to illuminate "dark corners", in addition to streetlights. lately people seem to think the bus stops and taxi areas arn't bright enough, so council puts up more lights. i think before bus stops it was clock towers and billboards that were not bright enough for people to enjoy.

although the new streetlights seem to have a feature designed with astronomers in mind... kicking the base of the new street lights makes them go out for about 3minutes. hmmm?

J

[xelasnave]

There were plans for an amatuer scope on the space station ..years ago..I dont know if that got off the ground..
With net control it could be done but you need someone to fix the little things like already suggested.
It could work like time share ...tuff if you get two weeks of wet when its your turn however..

WE need some numbers..how many dollars between how many people..
alex

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by Night Owl

Hey mate, could you put up the documentation of your lights out submission to your local council? It would give others a head start on putting forward their own lights out submission.

I might have to talk to the owner of the local super roadhouse that opened up. Man, talk about pumping light in to the sky.

I don't have a copy of the submission. The council has it. But it isn't just the written submission needed. You have to be prepared to attend the council meeting and in very brief terms, explain your case.

As far as your local super roadhouse, he won't turn lights off, down or anything until it becomes council regulation

Originally Posted by mlcolbert

Unfortunately, I think I know the immediate response from councils in the city;

we have security concerns, the number of crimes in the area require us to maintain adequate street lighting for the safety of pedestrians walking home late at night, to provide extra light for motorists to avoid accidents and also for the security of our traders so that there is not an increase in thefts in 'high street' stores, as well as reducing the fears of the community for break ins at the homes of families and the elderly.

Councils would probably also cite statistical 'evidence' provided by the state police to support their stance.

How to get around that? Reduce the stressors of living in large populated areas? Now, that's a challenge!

Originally Posted by Jarrod

that's exactly how Geelong's council would respond, they're adding more lights all the time. not just street lights, most are lights in places to illuminate "dark corners", in addition to streetlights. lately people seem to think the bus stops and taxi areas arn't bright enough, so council puts up more lights. i think before bus stops it was clock towers and billboards that were not bright enough for people to enjoy.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me!

Cities around the world have achieved success! Many cities. Some are Huge Cities. Rome for example.

Their are websites devoted to light pollution reduction from cities all over the globe (if I can find them again I'll post the links).

They were used as examples in my own submission.

Also, in your submission, don't say it is just for Astronomy. It is for:
1. Energy saving - Full cut-off lights actually use less power
2. Environment - animal sleeping patterns are disturbed.
3. Health - There is now proof that excess light causes Breast Cancer and ill-health in all people
4. Road Safety - Full cut-off lights reduce glare on wet nights by around 90%
5. Restoration of the night sky

In that order they grab councils attention

What have you got to lose by placing a well written submission?
Nothing.
What can be gained? Darker skies.

If you never place a submission, nothing happens and everyone keeps wingeing but doing nothing about it.

Just think, a submission in a big city may work It did overseas.

[Night Owl]

Despite valid concerns about politics it should not be that difficult for people with a common interest (Looking up at night) to all pull in the same direction and achieve a lot more than a few individuals. I also fly remote control aircraft, and I belong to the Victorian Model Aircraft Association, through my local clubs affiliation to it. The VMAA is a legal incorpororation, and has a legal constitution, as do the affiliated clubs. It costs me $120 dollars a year to be a member of an affiliated club to the VMAA, and affiliation provides me with 22 Million worth of public liability insurance. The VMAA has also bought our own state flying field near Sunbury. It has good facilities, power, and water, and any VMAA affiliated club member can go and use it. It is also used for organised state and national competitions. The VMAA has also supplied legal advice and cheap loans for affiliated clubs to buy their own land or improve flying field facilities. The VMAA also has an extensive library of videos that are available for loan as well, to any affiliated member. There is also numerous equipment that an affiliated club can borrow to hold events. It also has an education officer that goes around to schools.

Imagine a state / national astronomy association that you could borrow good eyepieces, CCD cameras, mounts, goto's, and other goodies from?

Our local clubs incorporation and affiliation has allowed us, with less than 25 members, to apply for local government community development grants. Last year we applied for a $3000 grant, and got it. Not bad for a club with 25 members. And this year we can apply for another $3000 grant. Imagine what facilities a local group (pun) could get for $3000 a year? Of
course, you can have higher club fees, subscriptions, and other fun raisers, such as raffles, wood drives, camps etc. I would be surprised if an incorporated club with 25 members could not buy a Meade 12" LX200R within 2 years, to share amongst themselves. 50 members could have their own 16" with a bit more work!

And why can't all stargazers get together, form an incorporated state and national association, and do the same for all astronomers, of all standings?

Imagine having association owned state and national observation sites, with good camping facilities, and eventually some really world-class equipment
to use as well? There is no reason why it can't be done.

But on a disturbing trend, why haven't all amateur astronomers been able to band together already, and try and achieve bigger and better things than just all doing it all on their own alone in the dark?

[xelasnave]

OK you have got me I will provide the land, stone, sand and logs and a fair bit of caretaking ....
Problems.... no grid power and remote and not probably capable of a real fix it if the computer/net goes down
alex