Particle jet seen blasting galaxy

[glenc (Glen)]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7148671.stm

A powerful jet of particles from a "supermassive" black hole has been seen blasting a nearby galaxy, according to findings from the US space agency. Galaxies have been seen colliding before, but this presents a rare example of one galaxy "attacking" another with a particle beam.
This could have a profound effect on any planets in the jet's path and could also trigger a burst of star formation.
The findings are to be published in the Astrophysical Journal.
They were obtained using Nasa's Chandra X-ray Observatory, Hubble Space Telescope, and Spitzer Space Telescope, as well as the Very Large Array (VLA) and Merlin radio telescopes.
The event is occurring in a system called 3C321. It contains two galaxies in orbit around one another which are in the process of merging. The data show that both galaxies contain supermassive black holes at their centres. But the larger galaxy - dubbed the "death star galaxy" by the astronomers - has a jet emanating from the vicinity of its black hole.
The unfortunate smaller galaxy has apparently swung into the jet's line of fire...

[xelasnave]

They say.............

"We don't know how exactly they're generated close to the black hole, what they're made of, how fast they're going, or how they evolve with time. So an object like 3C321 can act as an experiment which can give us an insight into the inner working of the jet."

I say it makes more sence to abandon the concept of a black hole and consider a close orbit binary system as the most likely way to generate the massive jets they observe here (and all over the Universe really)....still lets go with the possiblity of a balck hole and consider what the jets do for the host galaxy....

I say the material spat out from a gallaxy must gather in material from "space" ..think of these jets like long arms that gather material from way past the galaxy..but which must eventually be gathered in by the galaxy........ like a coral animal reaching out into the sea to gather food... the jets are the first part of a galaxy to claim a smaller neighbour as seems to be the case with the situation we view here. They provide a gravitational link back to the galaxy whereby outlying material can be captured ... these jets finally feed the host galaxy I feel.

Anyways neat stuff thanks from me for posting Glen... these jets and their purpose facinate me.
alex

[iceman (Mike)]

Wow, fascinating stuff.

[iceman (Mike)]

Also posted by night-vision, with this source:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ar-galaxy.html

[xelasnave]

I really think these jets feed a galaxy...

think of the material that goes out with the jet, this in effect increases the gravitational range of the galaxy..

material in the jet pulls in..er material gets pushed in to the jet..it gains mass and eventually falls back to the galaxy like a coil of rope..thus maybe giving a spiral galaxy its basic structure...

the material is recycled and as time goes on the jets can reach out further and gather more material from space...

the apparent line up of spiral galaxies like buttons on a string is strange also.. as that may mean galaxies pass material from one to the other via these jets...

but as I said when you think of it these jets are like little feeder arms that reach out into space... and eventualy they must return with more material or alternatively feed a neighbour.

There are so many galaxy colissions we can see could we see them like animals one devouring the other or like two cells merging to give birth to something different again???

Yes it is still raining ..why do you ask???

alex

[xelasnave]

I just thought ..if these jets effectively line up with the next neighbour it seems they may be constantly eating each other...how do the jets line up between us and m31? I wonder what that picture is? jet wise? or even the clouds?
alex

[GrahamL]

amazeing stuff .. which I don't quite understand .. say a star goes supernova nearby to another system ..and angular dispersion of the energy
release and the distance .. is such that not to much happens to that
nearby system .. this seems very differant ..so the energy release moves
perpendicular to its source ???.. in a contained "so to speak " beam ?
life wouldn't be a long term option if your world got swept over by
this yeah ??

[xelasnave]

Well I suspect that we connect to m31 via material spat out by a jet from our Milky Way and indeed m31 must have one coming our way as well.. there probably is evidence out there supporting a link between the two..us and them
alex

[BIG BEN]

wouldnt this jet stream be going faster than the speed of light, to escape the black hole, if it was going close to the speed of light the jet stream should have a bend in it wouldnt it???

becuse a black hole has so much energy that light it self can not escape
then that must mean that this jet stream is going faster than the speed of light.

any way tell me if this sounds stupid, im just a beginer to astronomy.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by BIG BEN

wouldnt this jet stream be going faster than the speed of light, to escape the black hole, if it was going close to the speed of light the jet stream should have a bend in it wouldnt it???

becuse a black hole has so much energy that light it self can not escape
then that must mean that this jet stream is going faster than the speed of light.

any way tell me if this sounds stupid, im just a beginer to astronomy.

Well our current understanding tells us that if part of these jets consist of matter which qualifies it as having mass then the speed of light is beyond it... however the material travells very fast and apparently at some larg fraction of C.
I think jets must follow a vortex strusture... because of my belief there are no black holes but in their place a binary system that can produce a vortex.. two bodies orbiting each other can only produce a vortex...anyways if one looks at various binaries that produce jets they finally are seen to become vortexual in structure when a long way from their host... all I suggest is at some stage anymaterial in this vortex will interact ith material it reaches in space..some in effect the jet will gather additional mass... I speculate that this vortex finally will fall back to the host galaxy ..think of how wide this vortex structure will become as it reaches furthe out..but eventaully it will come back to the host galaxy..not tight and neat as it left but now tih a diameter perhaps larger than the galaxy it left...when it falls back it will fall like a coiled rope I feel and perhaps explain the spiral structure of a spiral galaxy.... think of spraying a garden hose into the air so one sends a spiral of water skywards..how will it fall back to Earth and how far away from its source will it fall....... now if the water from the hose were able to pick up moisture from the air before it fell back that would replicate the propostion I suggest may be the case with the jets we see from so many spiral galaxies.. the water gathering up stuff to bring back to the original source.

What you say does not sound stupid at all ... it sounds as if you at least think of what is before you..that can never be stupid....Just because one is a beginner does not prevent a specualtion upon what may be happening
alex

[Outbackmanyep]

Interesting, i guess doppler shifts in the jets would have some bearing on evidence wether these things really do what you are thinking there Alex. I'm not qualified on expressing an opinion in this matter, but i understand what you're saying, although the evidence has to fit the facts to vindicate the theory.
Its my understanding of science that thats how it's played out. Very intriguing black hole, so they must gather as much information as possible and think of theory that might fit the facts! It's one viscious circle!

Cheers!

[xelasnave]

It is an only an idea not a theory and a recent idea at that...
A doppler effect is merely an observational aspect really... having to do with wavelenghts depending on the speed of the "energy" coming or going away from one.......
I read of a set of observations where a jet was coming from a special type of star .. the jet pointed toward us and the reading suggested that the jet was both coming and going (this was determined from a doppler approach in analysing the data) this seemed strange until they setteld for what the data showed..the jet was indeed travelling in two directions..toward us and away from us... and although that was not a galaxy the vortexual nature of the jets was apparent.... in that case the jets were traveling very fast.
But in such a case one would think there are only two alternatives..material in the jets will fall back or it wont..if it is not to fall back it will eventually end up someplace... but in that case if the coils fell back to the star one would get a spiral pattern around the host star..and I wondered if therefore a single star with such jets could be the birth of a spiral galaxy... seems very reasonable if one thinks of the rope or hose examples... but as I said it was just an idea... thanks for your interest and taking the time to understand the point of the idea... but I will leave it to someone else to develop a theory upon the idea.
alex
alex