Telescope, spotting scope, binoculair, or..?

[SpacEd]

Being a complete beginner, I need to know some basics, before I can explore the markets...

Most important: compact, easy to carry along on trips.

What I am after, is a decent telescope, to view, explore, become amazed by the universe, moon, stars, the beautifull milkyway above.

But, I also see myself exploring the ocean from the coast with this same peice of equipment.

And also, I want to view the endless views over the valleys by day, viewing wildlife etc. Not only km's away, I might want to spot that small bird just 50m away ...

What I don't want is a telescope that needs to be upgraded after a while, with new sofwtare of whatsoever. It should be a piece of equipment without anything that gets outdated within a couple of years.

I also do not want something that puts the image up-side-down. Don't know if that's an issue nowadays, but I remember seeing something like that when I was young(er)

Thanks for getting me started, very much appreciated.

cheers,
SpacEd

[IanL]

Hi

Have a look at televue. You can pick these up second hand.
Televue Ranger
Televue pronto
Televue 76 or 85

Depends how much you want to spend. I used a Pronto and this was easy carried. It was also good on astronomy side before I upgraded after a couple of years. Once you get to the 76 or 85 the money goes up. But you get what you pay for. Pronto seems a good buy if you can get one second hand.

Cheers
Ian

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

A nice refractor, with an erecting eyepiece, would probably be suitable. Little maintenance, no collimation...warning DO NOT go to a department store buy a from a real telescope retailer. Saxon, WO, SkyWatcher etc would be a good place to start, perhaps 80mm or above. Televue are nice, but a bit more expensive. Check out the for sale on IIS as someone may actually be selling something.

Other than that, keep asking questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question, only dumb answers.

We are here to help you out...now which way did you come in?

[Dennis]

Just an observation on the topic of close focusing, IF it is high on the list of importance.

We have a very nice WO 80mm ED refractor and a Leica 77mm spotting ‘scope. The WO requires long extension tubes to focus on objects as close as 20 to 30 metres and this makes the focuser assembly less rigid and requires a lot of fiddling to get just right.

The Leica spotting ‘scope can focus as close as 3 to 4 metres, out of the box. It is a very easy instrument to use from 3 to 4 metres right up to infinity. No fiddling with extension tubes, star diagonals, erecting prisms, etc. They are quite expensive though!

Generally, a decent spotting scope, such as the Leica will meet your requirements of compact, self contained, ease of use, right way up correct images, no fuss, etc. and although it is a specialist and costly instrument, it is a delight to use, delivers stunning views and is very robust and versatile.

However, for astronomy, it is probably just too over the top, lacks a finder scope, has a limited range of (Leica) interchangeable eyepieces, etc.

Pentax also do a range of spotting scopes that accept 1 ¼ inch astronomical eyepieces.

Cheers

Dennis

[rmcpb (Rob)]

I can see a combination of a set of binoculars for closer and widefield observing and a small refractor for the more distant, higher power observing.

[SpacEd]

Thanks for your comments and suggestions guys.

Still dazzling, don't get it completely, will just keep on browsing and checking here to see if it's going to make sense. Am not a native English speaker, so might miss the essence of a piece of gear just by the name.
Any dutchies around?

It's clear I am after refractor. What makes a refractor a refractor and not a telescope or a binoculair?
Do all refractors display the image upsideup? (or is this a stupid question, and do all modern scopes display the image correctly?)

Looking at Andrews page, there's a lot on the market.
I'll just keep on looking and learning. Maybe buy myself something for xmas?

later!

[Solanum]

A refractor is a telescope, and spotting scopes are refractors. A refractor refracts light, i.e. uses lenses. A reflector reflects light, i.e. uses a mirror.

Binoculars are basically a pair of refractors stuck together. The reason binoculars don't have an upside down image is because they have a prism in them to reverse the image. Spotting scopes usually have a right angle prism built into them (thus you look in the top at right angles to the end of the scope).

A refractor that is sold as a telescope generally won't have a right angle prism built in, but you can get an eyepiece with the prism (or a mirror) built in which will make the image correct way up.

[rwong]

I would suggesting buying a nice bino and learn the sky for 12 months before buying a telescope.

Also I would suggest beginners using a Newtonian scope with a Dob mount. Reasons being:
- a good 8" Dob costs less than $800
- equatorial mount for refractor is quite frustrating to learn
- image problem (left becomes right, up becomes down). It may cause confusion and frustraton for beginners.

Clear skies
WWP

[SpacEd]

Alright, getting there.

I have been able to narrow my searches.
I am now looking for a refractor, not just sold as a telescope, but also as a terrestrial viewer, I expect the image will be upright then. Or will add an eyepiece to flip the image.

Looking at some webpages, I find a couple of telescopes which look good, but I need your advise please.

What about the:
Skywatcher SW102 AZ3
Meade DS-2080LNT
Celestron NexStar 102 SLT

Is the above what I should be looking for? Again, I am a real beginner, don't know a lot about the different types of telescopes, but have learnt loads in the last week.

I like the so-called Goto or find functions, that sounds like a must.

What I don't want is to buy something now that needs to be upgraded next year, because it's abilities are limited. But the sky is not the limit (pricewise) so it should be the best of both worlds.

Budget max AUD 600,-

I can use some help coming to a decision. Is what I have listed above a good pick, or do you have other recommendations?

One last question, if the magnification is not mentioned in the specs, is there an easy way to calculate that, or what are specs that I need to look at to make sure I will have the best magnification?

thanks,
SpacEd

[Dennis]

Hmm, you have set some quite tight parameters and I think some may be almost mutually exclusive, so I think you may need to consider some compromises. So, what compromises are you prepared to live with? Generally:

A “pure” spotting ‘scope is optimised for terrestrial viewing:

• Easy set up – fits easily to a tripod with the ¼ threaded tripod adapter.
• Tripod head should provide Up/Down and Right/Left motions.
• Gives a correct way up image and when you sweep the ‘scope, L is L and R is R.
• Can usually focus closely as well as at infinity just by using the focuser, without the need to fit any extension tubes.
• May come with a built in 45 degree eyepiece assembly for easy viewing.
• The range of eyepieces that will fit and focus correctly may be restricted.

A “pure” astronomical refractor is optimised for viewing the skies:

• It will give an upside down image – the fewer the glass elements the better.
• Requires a star diagonal to use to avoid grovelling on the ground and straining your neck when looking at objects over 45 degrees altitude.
• Star diagonal will give you a correct way image, but it will be mirrored so L is R and R is L.
• A GoTo astronomy refractor on an equatorial mount will be difficult to use for day time terrestrial viewing; the up/down and L/R movements are non-intuitive as one axis is tilted to the same angle as your Latitude.
• Flexibility of an extensive range of interchangeable eyepieces.
• If the mount is a GoTo, thus having motors, are there clutches so you can release the ‘scope and swing it manually? If not, you are stuck with using the motors to move the ‘scope which will make it almost impossible and very frustrating to view boats on the ocean, birds wading, etc.

Other issues:

• Both will have a limited light gathering capability due to their relatively small aperture, in the range 60mm to 80mm I suspect.
• Good tripods are expensive.
• Good mounts that provide smooth movement with fine controls tend to be expensive.

Magnification is calculated using the formula:
Focal Length of ‘Scope/ Focal Length of Eyepiece.
E.g. 700mm / 20mm = x35 magnification.

For terrestrial use, I have found that for our 77mm spotting ‘scope, around x30 to x45 is an ideal magnification, as it provides sufficient:

• Magnification (more than x50 makes the image dim with low contrast) with a nice,
• Field of view (you don’t feel like you are looking down a narrow tunnel) and a good
• Eye relief (your eyeball is comfortably some 12 to 20mm from the eyepiece, not resting on it!).

Cheers

Dennis

[Zuts]

In general a telescope never needs upgrading ever. Unfortunately its the aspirations that get upgraded.

(1) I want to see more so i need a bigger scope.
(2) I want a higher mag so i need a high power eyepiece
(3) I want very widefield so i need a low power eyepiece
(4) I am sick of field curvature and or seagulls so i need a parracor or extender
(5) I cant find things so i need an argo navis on my DOB
(6) I want to take photos so i need a camera
(7) better photos so a better mount
(8) not happy with photos so second guide scope
(9) and so on and so on

The list is endless.

Your list of wants will be very hard to reconcile for the price so i suggest the following. Since 600 bucks wont buy a very good refractor and mount i would buy a good set of large binos. These days 600 bucks will buy a lot of chinese bino. Upto and including Giant binos or not so giant binos and a good stand. Remember for 600 bucks you are only looking at maybe a 80 to 100 mm achromat plus mount so for the money go and get a set of 70 mm binos.

Just my thoughts

Paul

[SpacEd]

Originally Posted by Zuts

(1) I want ....
(9) and so on and so on

The list is endless.

Your list of wants will be very hard to reconcile for the price so i suggest the following. Since 600 bucks wont buy a very good refractor and mount i would buy a good set of large binos. These days 600 bucks will buy a lot of chinese bino. Upto and including Giant binos or not so giant binos and a good stand. Remember for 600 bucks you are only looking at maybe a 80 to 100 mm achromat plus mount so for the money go and get a set of 70 mm binos.

Just my thoughts

Paul

Thanks Paul, and the rest, for your suggestions.
Thanks a lot Dennis, for your very extended explanation. It makes the search a lot easier...

I understand what you say about willing more and more after while, but at this moment, I am starting out. I don't mind spending a little bit more if it's essential, but I don't like to spend a little bit more, because of brand, or just the price.
A colleague said last week, I don't drink a beer if a carton is under 60 bucks. That's not how I am. My Carlton Midstrength is good enough for me. Cheap and does the job.

I have seen a lot of telescopes in the last week, all prices from 100 up to 500. Some look really impressive. I am not browsing at Dick Smith, but looking at Andrewscom and others alike.

What is a good scope, that comes close to my list of desired features?
I understand now that a goto function might limits the manual handling. So I need to have one that can have the clutches released...

It still needs to be compact, easy to carry along, so I understand it won't be the best of the best, but the closest look I have ever had of the moon is without any scope. I will be pretty much impressed with anything that has some magnification. But I don't like spending about 400 dollars now, with the absolute necessity to upgrade next year.

It needs to have, or have the ability to have upright and correct left-right view. I thought the Skywatcher range was that? Doesn't look like they have any goto function though .. (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/terrestrial.asp)

Is there anything, chinese or not, that comes very close to what I want, and is still relatively cheap? Should I look for a telescope with terrestrail use as well, or should I use for a binocolair with astronomy capabilities?

Pfff, it's not easy...

[SpacEd]

I still have some questions:

1. When using a spotting scope, I don't need an extra eyepiece for terrestrail viewing, because the viewer itself does give me that view. But can I use this one for astro viewing as well?

2. When using an astronomical refractor can I always add an eyepiece to move my picture upside down, so that it shows the correct way up, to use for terrestrial viewing? And will that also give me correct left/right view?

3. What is the best scope on the market, one that will give me optimal terrestrial views, buit also gives me good astronomical views?

4. What is the downside of getting binoculairs, if they can be set-up on a tripod?

thanks again,
SpacEd

[rwong]

If you are not in a hurry, may I suggest that you go to a star party or better visit a local astronomical club to see other members' telescopes.

There are no black and white answers to your questions. The choice depends on your own prefernece and budget. Try before you buy is my best advice.

[Karls48 (Karl)]

Have look on Celestron 102 Wide View refractor. http://www.opticsplanet.net/celestron-102mm-wide-view-spotting-scope.html.
It is complete package including prism diagonal (correct image) and two not so hot eyepieces. Telescope can be mounted on photographic tripod, or with addition of 100mm tube rings on GE mount. It is an Achromat so you will get purple fringe around bright object. I got one for couple years and use it as travel scope and I’m (for the price I pay for it) happy with it .
You can get it from Andrew Communications for $370.