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Old 27-05-2007, 11:06 PM
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erick (Eric)
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Mods to 8" dob

Well, struggling with headcold (groan), I put a day into modding my dob on Saturday.

Major work - installation of EbonyStar and new teflon sliders.

For all the cautions I had read, the EbonyStar was easy to work with. I started off carefully jigsawing it held tightly between 2 pieces of threeply, but by the end of the day I was cutting my altitude bearings with tinsnips!! Yes, I guess if you are finishing off someone's kitchen benchtop, it is critical how the edge is cut since it will flake slightly, or worse, but not a problem for this job.

Started by cutting a 48cm dia circle (jigsaw between wood with finest metal cutting blade), a hole in middle for pivot bolt (just a hole cutter on drill), then holes so I still had access to the four screws that connect the baseboard to the sidewalls. While I had the screws out and the baseboard disconnected from the walls, I took the opportunity to coat all exposed particle board surfaces with estapol to try and retard moisture ingress.

Then glued the EbonyStar into place using contact cement. I was concerned about getting the laminate accurately located before the surfaces touched, but it was no problem (with an extra pair of hands). Hammered it down - mallet onto block of wood - then stood the base down, on the EbonyStar for an hour to let it set under pressure.

The new teflon pads were obtained from Astrosystems:-

http://www.astrosystems.biz/pivot.htm

I fitted the three large ones to the ground board after levering off the smaller, stapled pads provided. I used a knife to bevel off the leading/trailing edges of the teflon pads before I fitted them - about a one mm bevel.

Then I fitted the new pivot bolt (also Astrosystems - see above) which comes with a large teflon pad to provide centre support. The instructions discuss shimming this center teflon pad to reduce the load on the three main sliders, but with even one milkbottle washer, the baseboard rocked on the centre teflon, so no shimming.

With that all done and the bolt pulled up relatively loose (in my case, it needed a couple of washers at the top - my base and ground boards must be thinner that it was designed for - I should have bought the 2" bolt option), the base spun nicely on the ground board. I could notice an improvement, but it wasn't friction-less. However the test will come on a cold night - but I'm optimistic there will be less stiction.

Now, the altitude bearings. I had been wondering what to do here. I started by replacing the teflon pads with the new ones supplied. The originals were already set at about a 90 degree subtended angle, so I stuck with those positions. Again I beveled the leading/trailing edges. I decided to have a go with wrapping the plastic bearings with EbonyStar. I knew I had to thin the backing so I could wrap around the small radius, so out came the trusty electric planner - dull and uneven blades - and I had a shot at planning off half a mm or so of the backing. Well, amazingly, after a bit of experimentation on offcuts, it worked, and I had a satisfactorily thinned piece of EbonyStar for two bearings. Here is where the tinsnips came in. It was now thin enough that I could carefully cut out the bearings covers - 21mm x 350mm. I carefully sanded the sharp edges down and fitted the bearing covers. I designed it so it would wrap around and overlap, then I put one screw through the two ends and into the plastic bearing. A bit of careful work to ensure the EbonyStar cover was taut over the bearing and careful placement of the screw so it did not foul on the base over the travel of the OTA. No glue, I'd decided I wanted to be able to take them off, if unsuccessful.

Now, I had guessed as much, but the radius of the bearing had increased, and the teflon pads were thicker, so the OTA now rests not flat on the teflon, but on the top edge of the teflon. OK, I trimmed a bit more teflon off to allow a greater contact area, but you should see how smooth the altitude movement is now! I may have to reinstate the friction springs, but let's see how I go. I am already used to adjusting my speaker magnet counterweights frequently as I change eyepieces and altitude, so I may get it to work OK. But I may have to rely on the big rubber bumpers I previously placed at the ends of the OTA travel, if I turn away and it starts to tip!

Minor work - rotate focuser and fit support for counterweight under top of OTA. Finish "Eric's Knobs" on the secondary mirror adjustment.

I wanted the focusser at about 45 degrees to the axis of the OTA. Thanks to advice on the Forum, that was easily done - undo two grub screws and the focusser comes off the base. Relocate and tighten the screws. Interesting, a lot of stuff has to be held firm by those two grubscrews when the focusser is loaded up.

I find that, as I approach the zenith, I need to move a counterweight from the top side to underneath the OTA - of course, it slides down. (If I have it on the top side, I just place it above the finderscope holder to stop it sliding.) So, I mounted a small stop under the top of the OTA to stop the speaker magnet sliding down. Used a piece of hardwood, painted Bintel grey, suitably rasped to the curvature and with a slight angle to catch the magnet. This is the first time I took a drill to the OTA itself, and probably not the last. Was careful to catch all the drill swarf. It turned out that I had to remove the spider and secondary to screw the S/S self-tappers into the wood. No problem, but I wondered how well I'd be able to realign the secondary. It did seem to go back OK, though the mirror had rotated, I seemed to be able to return it to position easily and recollimate.

Lastly, finished off my knobs for the secondary mirror tilt. I'd grown sick of the Philips head screws, so found some long M4 bolts (cabinet handle fittings are M4), found some of the wooden plugs that fit into screw holes on furniture, drilled through these, added a few nuts and washers and I had Eric's Knobs. Only trouble, they very slightly protruded into the light path, so I filed flutes into the wood to significantly reduce this, with the added advantage of increasing the grip, gave them a paint and reinstalled and rechecked and reset collimation.

OK, I need a careful re-collimation when I have time - particularly to set the secondary mirror correctly under the focuser. I want to put in the white cardboard blocking the primary mirror reflection to do this properly.

Then roadtest at the first opportunity. Saturday night would have been brilliant, but I collapsed feeling dreadful and have struggled through today. I can feel a day's sick leave coming on for tomorrow - the cough is developing now

Next big job, change from left-handed to right-handed by relocating the focusser to the other side. Sometime in future, hopefully with a 10:1 focusser.

Congratulations if you have read this far. Thanks for persisting. Headcold permitting, I had fun.

Last edited by erick; 27-05-2007 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 28-05-2007, 09:18 PM
astro_nutt
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I applaud you on your sterling ideas and efforts Eric...hope that headcold goes away real soon!!!...now I want to build something!!!
Cheers!
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Old 29-05-2007, 10:33 AM
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Tannehill
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Mods to Dobs

Eric,

Congratulations! Glad the cutting technique worked.

I ended up knuckling under and gave my board and Ebony Star to the laminate store and they are doing it for me. Probably better for me, since I'm a bit clumsy with anything sharp and electrified...For glueing and edge routing and routing out the holes (for mounting the side and front boards and for the center bolt) they are charging me (no more than, he said) $70. I provided the Ebony Star, which I had bought from the same store weeks back. Total cost then is $100. (If anyone is interested it is Ringwood Kitchens 9870 6064 on Maroondah Hwy, ask for Graham or Greg.)

You noted the az motion to be still a bit resistive. My first mod, I had re-tightened the center bolt too much, and it took me an hour to realize that. Duh. I think the Az motion should improve with time, as the Teflon and Ebony star work in. I'm still seeing small flakes of Teflon appear on my bearing and the ground, as the TEflon works in, and the motion is getting better on it's own. Armour All in the meantime...

Like you, I also noted the change in presentation of the teflon pad on the bearing when I went with the thicker pads. I ended up shimming one end (the "lower" end) of each teflon pad with small strips of milk jug so it matched the radius of the bearing better. And bevelling off the edges to prevent the sharp edge of the pad from digging into the bearing surface. I use key rings to lengthen the tension spring a bit.

Looking forward to seeing your scope sometime under the clear dark sky. Weather isn't looking too cooperative anytime soon, tho...

Scott
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Old 29-05-2007, 11:38 AM
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erick (Eric)
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Thanks Scott

Many thanks for organising the AstroSystems parts for me as part of a joint order.

With respect to the Az motion, I've been careful with the tightness of the pivot bolt, so I think that is OK. Let's see how it settles down.

Yes, I should think about shimming out the bottom of the teflon pads on the Al bearings - good idea.

Eric
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Old 29-05-2007, 07:49 PM
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Dave47tuc (David)
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Hi all,
Just a word of caution. For those thinking of putting the Argo Navis on there mounts, if you Mod them to much you may have to mod the mounting hardware that comes with the AN. The pic was a mod I made on my rocker box. This in fact made the distance between the ground board and rocker box to much. I had to go and get the nut shimmed down to a thinner nut so that the nut would fit between the bottom of the base and lower than the grub screw that holds the encoder in place.

So do your mods and I hope they work but be mindful if your thinking of the AN system. The kit comes with hardware that is for a standard GSO base not moded!!
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Old 29-05-2007, 09:28 PM
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erick (Eric)
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Thanks for the advice Dave. I have thought about that and if and when I can extend to AN, I'll just have to sort out the issues then. I've had a look at the installation instructions for the encoders for my scope. The new pivot bolt set I inserted is designed to take an encoder - hopefully compatible with the AN encoder kit. I hope one day I'll get to see!
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Old 29-05-2007, 10:09 PM
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Photon
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Hi Dave,
In relation to your note re the Argo Navis AZ bolt I had exactly that problem after fitting a roundtable bearing to my base, then deciding to get an AN. The problem was quickly overcome when I contacted Gary Kopff of Wildcard-Innovations. After collecting a few measurements he had another AZ bolt manufactured for me and accepted a return on the original one. Change over cost was about $25.00 from memory. The new one fitted perfectly. They support their product very well. So if anyone has a modded base there is a solution.
Kind Regards IanG
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Old 30-05-2007, 09:03 AM
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Tannehill
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DItto on need for custom bolt length

Good point, to emphasize that the Wildcard encoder kit for the GSO is for an unmodified scope.

I, too, ordered a 6mm longer central bolt from Gary for the same reasons: with new ground board Teflon pads and Ebony Star on the base, the regular bolt was too short and I could not get enough clearance to have the locking nut on the bolt when the encoder was installed. I tried to find a place to grind that nut down, but gave up, plus I was worried about damaging it and the grub screw within.

With thicker teflon pads on the trunions the tube rode a bit higher, which gave me a bit more clearance, but even so, with the retro-fit, the encoder and edge of tube come within mm of each other. Eeeks.

You are better off with a too long bolt if you do it, b/c you can always shorten the effective length by placing a shim under the mounting flange on the underside of the ground board (ensuring it's perfectly flat of course). But best to wait until you have installed the gear, then measure carefully and give Gary the specs.

Scott
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:26 AM
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erick (Eric)
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Real live testing of the new bearings

I had a few hours under the stars (plus planets and one big Moon) this evening.

All I can say about my new EbonyStar bearings - SMOOTH................!!!!

Bought an el-cheapo 6mm plossl today so I ramped up to 400x with the 2x Barlow, on Venus, Saturn, Jupiter, Moon, Jewelbox. Had no trouble nudging the scope in alt or az - no "stiction", just silky smooth start and stop - I love it!
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Old 17-06-2007, 01:27 PM
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erick (Eric)
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First real testing the last two nights. Both cold, Fri below freezing for a while and very dewy. All I can say is fantastic, especially when I compared with other dobs that I had the opportunity to move each night. Silky smooth in both Alt and Az motions. Super easy to nudge the target into FOV at up to 400x! Alt is probably too smooth - I have the tension springs off and the OTA will take off on me as, for example, I swap out the barlow with 2" eyepiece! I guess I'll have to put the tension springs back on. Or keep practicing. I don't mind drift in Alt, that's easy to return to the object. But bouncing off the rubber stops at the end of travel while I have my back turned......!! A great way to muck up the collimation!
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