Win8 Driver Problems....PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

[acropolite (Phil)]

Against my better judgement, I've decided to stay with Win8 on my new Laptop. I have a problem with the Orion Starshoot autoguider driver install.

I'll outline the problem, any suggestions would be appreciated.

1. Latest 32/64 bit SSAG drivers load without problems using run as Administrator.

2. Plug in the SSAG, the OS does it's chicken dance and comes up with device not recognised.

3. Delving deeper in to the problem it seems that there may be an issue with the SSAG reporting itself differently to what the SSAG.inf file is expecting.
i.e. The device manager shows the PID as follows. Device USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&65cf1b5&0&1 was configured. As I understand it the key info here is VID_0000&PID_0002

The inf file shows the device to be installed as.
[ORION.NTx86]
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_1856&P ID_0011
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_ 0012

Note that the VID & PID from the inf file don't match what the PC is seeing. I suspect that the VID/PID values were changed in later releases of the SSAG.

I found a thread on CN where the OP had edited the inf file and added additional lines to the inf file for the VID/PID that the PC was reading.

Here in lies the problem, I can't edit the inf file, the OS has it locked down, I've tried several methods described online but nothing seems to work. I've been able to work around this problem in W7 before but can't remember exactly how.

I've also tried using the modified inf in another location but that gives a file not found error, as well as a hash tag error (my guess is that's something to do with the driver signing).
I'm not sure that even if I get to modify the inf file that the driver will load successfully but it's my best shot.

Anyone know how to get around the restriction on editing the inf files or any other ideas?

[Barrykgerdes]

Since Win 7 came out with all its security lock outs I have run always a little patch called "take ownership". This modifies the registry and puts a line in the window menu "take ownership". I run this on the folder I want access to (takes a few minutes on a long folder). I can then modify the permissions that you can't normally access.

Barry

[acropolite (Phil)]

I found the take ownership reg patch late last night and have used it, unfortunately editing the inf file still doesn't cure the problem, although some users report that it worked for them. I've also read of instances where the SSAG will install OK on a users W8 desktop, but not on their laptop. Reading between the lines it looks like it may be some sort of issue with USB3, some users report that setting the usb ports to USB 2 in bios also fixes the issue.
The SSAG driver also doesn't deinstall properly, it seems that every time the device plugs in W8 tries to load an additional driver. I've sent a short message to Orion asking for an email address that I can send a report to, their support page only allows a few characters, not enough to even start to describe the issues. Judging from what I've found searching, the problem is obscure and doesn't always resolve the same way.

[Barrykgerdes]

We have had trouble with Stellarium packages. Packed with inno5.3.
It often is prevented from writing to the user area

users\name\Appdata\roaming.

Because of this we have given some alternate folders to try if this happens.

Sometimes the desktop has been off limits as well. It is a real pain. I don't have any bother but I believe it is because I spend half an hour taking ownership of every file/folder in Windows. after Win 7 or Win 8 is installed.

Barry

[2stroke (Jay)]

You could manually install the driver, seems weird thats its on a different device ID though, look up the 900nc driver install method, lol i use a dsi pro as a guide cam now thats dam oldskool. This sounds like orions problem and they should be fixing the issue, you could contact them and they may have a beta stage driver, really strange :/ The guy i go out with doing AP work uses one on his win 8 machine without any problems maybe there a newer revision of the camera but thats sounds wrong as the drivers should be working with it that came with it still.

[acropolite (Phil)]

You could manually install the driver, seems weird thats its on a different device ID though

That was one of the first things I tried, no matter how the driver is installed I still get device not recognised. Other people have them working on W8, I suspect its related to versions of the SSAG. The driver removal isn't clean; each time the camera is plugged in the driver loads again, so the device ends up with multiple instances of the driver. It's likely that when the driver is removed the registry isn't cleaned properly.
It's a damn nuisance because so fare everything else is running OK.
Tonight I'll reload the OS from scratch (again) to remove any remnants of the driver and see what else I can come up with.

[Andy Walters (Andy)]

Setting USB3 To 2 in bios worked for me.
Cheers Andy.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Thats got to be the usb3 controller then lol so much for backwards compatibility if its pooping incorrect device ids. There should be a bios update to address that issue then for your machine. I'll put this into memory when i get around to going a ssag to save weight.

[acropolite (Phil)]

Setting USB3 To 2 in bios worked for me

That's also on the list to do, despite all my efforts I can't get the system clean after install attempts, I'm on my 3rd system reload for that reason.

Is your version 64 bit Pro and did you use the latest drivers?


I read the E531 userguide found that I have one USB2 port, I've tried the device on that port with no success but after succesive attempts on the USB3 port, one more try after a system reload.

I'm not the only one with this problem, there are many instances of the same issues on the CN forums, including Guylain of backyard EOS fame.

[acropolite (Phil)]

OK I think I've got it licked. (PHD not yet installed and working so I'm not claiming victory just yet... )

After a fresh install of W8 (only took 30 mins or so from the recovery partition) and using the USB2 port the SSAG installs correctly. I'd imagine if I could get in to the bios and change the USB3 ports back to USB ports the result would be the same.

Some observations.

Using the USB2 port not only allowed the driver install, but the PID shows correctly as well.

It's no use swapping to a USB2 port once the install has failed, in my case at least I needed a fresh OS install (or maybe some serious digging in the registry etc to ferret out the remnants left over after driver and device removal.

Thanks for your support and suggestions guys, hopefully this will help someone else along the way.

[acropolite (Phil)]

Just ran up PHD 1.14, I can see an image on the camera, looks good at this stage.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Great to hear what a nightmare lol, atleast your up and running now thats a real strange issue though?

[acropolite (Phil)]

Great to hear what a nightmare lol, atleast your up and running now thats a real strange issue though?

It's a commonly reported problem, quite a few users just gave up and bought something else that did work, some found an alternate solution that worked, some didn't.

I've emailed Orion with a full description of the problem, the cause and the solution (in my case), they're passing it on to their development team, hopefully there will be a full resolution some time in the future. There should be no reason why these devices shouldn't run on USB3, I'm lucky that the laptop has one USB2 port as the bios doesn't allow any change to the USB3 ports.

[JQ (John)]

I am having the same problems as so many others. I bought the unit from a reputable dealer but I think I should have been asked what system I was intending to use it with.

After many frustrating hours doing many of the things described on this forum W8 will still not recognise the autoguider.

Then I loaded PhD on my MacBook Air and everything works!

Be warned if you intend to run an Orion Autoguider on a computer running W8 with USB3.

[White Rabbit]

This seems to be a common problem with orion drivers I have an orion filter wheel and it was a pig to install, many others have had the same issue with the filter wheel. To this day, when boot up my pc I have to go outside and manually unplug the wheel and plug it back in just to get the driver to load.


Good luck.
Sandy

[JQ (John)]

I received the following response from Orion to my question regarding Orion Autoguider not being recognised on a laptop running W8 with USB3 ports:

Thank you for contacting Orion Telescopes & Binoculars. We are aware of an issue with USB3.0 ports and the Starshoot Autoguider. It has to do with a particular host controller that comes with some computers. We are working on a solution at this time and will keep you advised of any progress that we make. We appreciate your patience while we work to resolve this issue. Please feel free to contact us with any other questions you may have.

This is encouraging.

The autoguider itself is an excellent unit and as I learn to use it I become more pleased with the quality.

[acropolite (Phil)]

If USB3 is your only option, Microsoft's Fix it solution centre may be worth a try, I had a stubborn problem with a Lenovo wireless device that didn't install correctly, I couldn't delete, nor could I find any driver that would work. Fix it did what it said.... http://support.microsoft.com/fixit/