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Old 20-10-2013, 02:55 PM
DJDD
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Mirrorless camera or Canon 700D

hi all,

ok, narrowed my DSLR to Canon 700D unless I shell out for the Nikon D610...

Other than that, would anyone recommend a mirrorless system for use:
- on a polarie
- on the end of an ED80
?

that is, low noise, good sensitivity when compared to the Canon (or maybe full rame Nikon D610)?

any particular brands and models? and lens for when working on a Polarie?

thanks for any thoughts...
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Old 20-10-2013, 03:00 PM
DJDD
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found thsi thread eventually:
Which modified DSLR/mirrorless cameras are best for astrophotography?

has some good info.
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Old 21-10-2013, 08:33 AM
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I'm using a SONY SLT A77v DSLR. It's mirrorless and has good (IMO) low noise, high ISO capability. It's downfall is the lack of a LiveView type function. It's plus is the way the electronic viewfinder shows the exposure effect as you alter ISO, duration etc which a normal mirror sytem would not. The lack of any vibration is a plus but I'd love it to have the LiveView capability. At 24 megapixels it takes nice pix as well.
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Old 21-10-2013, 11:18 AM
DJDD
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thanks for the reply. I will look at that camera, too.

i was hoping for an even lighter camera than the 700D so it may not be the final choice but worth pursuing further.
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Old 21-10-2013, 01:33 PM
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Hi DJDD,

What type of photography are you after exactly?
Astro only? Deep space? Planetary? Wide field? It might help to decide.

Cheers
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Old 21-10-2013, 02:40 PM
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The current highest performing cameras with top of the line highest rated sensors in APSc size is:

Fuji XE1/2 XPro 1, XM1 (cheapish too) (Fuji has good lenses 14mm F2.8, 18-55 F2.8 stabilised).

Sony Nex 6 is not bad but behind the Fuji. But very good. Nex 5n would be the same. Older Nex 5 has good low light performance.

The new Sony A7 is the cheapest full frame interchangeable lens camera, is mirrorless, very few reviews but a relatively enthusiastic response. May not be suitable for all legacy lenses without some colour shift in the corners - but I think that is mainly Zeiss and Leica lenses. It probably would work fine with Canon and Nikon lenses.

This is an updated 24mp full frame sensor. Both this and the 36mp sensor are likely to top DXO mark ratings once tested.

Nikon D610 should be good but D600 was plagued with oil/dust issues on shutter and Nikon put out the same camera with a different shutter. So I would wait for reviews that definitively state the oil issue is fixed. D610 would be the earlier Sony 24mp full frame sensor not the very latest.

Nikon D800 and D800E are very very good but expensive. Low light performance of the D610 would be almost the same and I think an image from either camera would look much the same. Other Nikon models in APSc no doubt are good. D7100, D5300 most now do not have anti aliasing filters which Nikon has pushed into the mainstream. Sony is following suit with RX1r and A7r 36.4mp with no AA filter and offset microlenses for better corner and edge performance.

Canon 6D is popular and has good low light performance. Its the competitor to Nikon D610. I haven't heard of any quality issues with the 6D and owners seem pretty happy with it.

60Da is the astronomy version of APSc size 60D. I have seen some reasonable shots with that camera. I'd describe it personally as being good but a bit lacking not as good as the 20Da was in its day which was sensational.

Latest Canon APSc though I think are lagging pretty badly in the noise department. I think they were at their heyday with the 20D through to 550D. I think the megapixel race after that probably came at a cost of low light high ISO performance. 70D has split pixels for autofocus which is great for terrestial imagers but for astro work again I think its come at a slight cost for low light high ISO performance. We are a minority market so our use usually does not count.

There are several cameras that use the Sony 16.3mp Exmor sensor, Nikon D7000, Pentax K5, Fuji XE1 and 2, Xm1, XPro 2 (albeit with a different colour filter array) and of course Sony Nex 5 and 6 models. Its been a classic sensor with exceptional performance.

I hope that helps.

I recently modified a Sony Nex 6. I have nearly recommissioned it and I hope to be able to post results in a little while.

Greg.
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Old 21-10-2013, 04:00 PM
DJDD
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Hey, rustigsmed, thanks for the reply.
Use will be mainly astro, although no doubt will take other shots at some point. I take terrible terrestrial photos...
use will be limited to atro shots from tripod, wide field on polarie and ED80 only.
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Old 21-10-2013, 04:00 PM
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Greg, thanks for the detailed response, and would be good info for anyone, I think, and easily found by the search engine…!
Of course, I did not add that I may have a limited budget…


Re: D7000 sensor, good info. I was using a D7000 (my wife’s), which is in Nepal right now, taking fantastic photos.


Canonn 60Da is probably not an option- too specialised. I would need filters for terrestrial use.

Nikon D610 – yes, an option except for cost but (a) as you said, should wait for reviews and see if oil/dust problem is gone; and (b) the D620 (?) with slightly more DX megapixels will be good, e.g. 16MP in the DX zone. Although probably better for someone like my wife as a transition from DX to FX.

Nikon D800- yep, way too expensive.

Canon 60D versus 700D: probably comes down to weight, I think, and maybe cost…
Canon 100D- I think the fixed LCD is not as good as the articulated LCD on the 700D/60D


So, I think it will come down to a Fuji XM1 or Canon 700D .

Thanks, again for the great info.
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Old 21-10-2013, 04:23 PM
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There are lots of options out there, greg has (as usual) made plenty of awesome points. although im fairly certain the 550d is pretty much the same as the 600d, 650d and 700d, sensor wise. maybe at the time the 550d was good but competitor sensors have progressed quicker since then.

One area where using a canon in astro work benefits is the software available. in particular im thinking of a program called backyard eos. it is an easy to use, affordable camera control software in which helps with focus, image capture etc. http://www.backyardeos.com/ i'm not sure what other programs people use to capture an exposure past 30 secs with other cameras? but maybe they can chime in with some other alternatives.

perhaps if you are looking at doing more of your work with the ed80 a canon may be better for you, widefield and landscape work a low noise alternative such as the fuji or other full frame camera may work better. a 60da can still be used for non astro by altering the white balance.

i think these days we are very lucky to have such good quality entry level dSLR cameras, you're unlikely to pick a dud if buying new.

best of luck with the decision!
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Old 21-10-2013, 04:44 PM
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thanks again, rustigsmed.

i had forgotten BackyardEOS
i think you have sold me on the Canon, especially with the software available.
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Old 22-10-2013, 08:58 AM
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I thought the Canon 1100D (?) was a good option as well. Low noise etc and a good price for what it was.
(Just saying, I ain't no Canon expert but I looked at that one recently and read some good reviews )
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Old 22-10-2013, 11:19 AM
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the 1100D looks good- less pixels, larger pixels

But I am tempted by the articulated LCD screen in the later models...
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Old 23-10-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDD View Post
the 1100D looks good- less pixels, larger pixels

But I am tempted by the articulated LCD screen in the later models...
Hmm, yeah, I was only looking for Astro purposes with LiveView so that didnt matter. My SONY A77 has an articulated screen, been very useful when in amongst crowds or low level shots. Although for motorsports I still revert to the EV screen, easier to track\pan and frame\zoom when they are going past at mega speed. It does 12 frames per second at full res (24 M), another advantage of no mechanical mirror.
It's worth getting a good tripod as well. I 'mono' it at motor events ( one leg down ) but great for long exposure day or night. We have a night time light festival coming up in a month or so I want to capture so looking forward to using it all there.
Tripod is also great for HD video which I've used at a Xmas carol event ( A77 does good stereo sound as well ). Keeps movements nice and smooth.
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Old 23-10-2013, 10:53 AM
DJDD
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hey, thanks, ZeroID, for the reply.

lots to think about but I think I will go the Canon 700D for the articulated screen and 3rd party (plus Canon) software support.


(now, where to buy... i think Photcontinental in QLD looks like the go.)
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Old 24-10-2013, 10:04 AM
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Remember that you can use Magic Lantern on some Canon cameras as well. Magic Lantern is a free software add-on that runs from the SD/CF card and adds a host of new features to Canon EOS cameras that weren't included from the factory by Canon. This includes long exposures, intervalometer, etc.
Check it out at http://www.magiclantern.fm/

I have been using it on a 600D for about a year without any problems. You dont need laptops, cables and gadgets to do long exposures or timelapse anymore.

Theo
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Old 24-10-2013, 10:33 AM
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sweet. looks good.
thanks, Theo.


will order camera tonight and get by the time the weather clears down here in Melbourne.
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Old 24-10-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoP View Post
Remember that you can use Magic Lantern on some Canon cameras as well. Magic Lantern is a free software add-on that runs from the SD/CF card and adds a host of new features to Canon EOS cameras that weren't included from the factory by Canon. This includes long exposures, intervalometer, etc.
Check it out at http://www.magiclantern.fm/

I have been using it on a 600D for about a year without any problems. You dont need laptops, cables and gadgets to do long exposures or timelapse anymore.

Theo
Another huge bonus with Magic Lantern is that you can shoot raw 14bit video if you have a fast enough card. Plus you can shoot the raw video at 1:1 pixels and at some useful non-standard resolutions (I think that depends on camera model).
I've tested this on my 5DmkII and it works pretty well even though I only have a 60MB/s card. I haven't got around to trying it on lunar or planetary imaging yet though I think it will be excellent.

See here for info on camera models and their raw video capabilities: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...yUndteGc#gid=5

EDIT: I should also mention that those resolutions in that table are the max res but you can choose your horizontal and vertical resolutions seperately. For example on my mkII I can choose 960x960 or other irregular combinations if I want which I think will be useful for planetary imaging.

Last edited by pluto; 24-10-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 24-10-2013, 11:05 AM
DJDD
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thanks, Pluto.
good info.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:37 AM
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There are rumors news of both Nikon and Canon developing a full frame mirrorless camera. They kind of have to as Sony is raking in a lot of Canikon market share because they are the only makers of a full frame mirrorless apart from Leica.

They most likely won't be out until late next year.

Mirrorless are good for nightscapes because they are lighter.

Also an EVF makes focusing very easy. Live view is a bit clumsier but also works. An OVF is not very useful in nightscapes, perhaps if the moon is up it would be.
Most mirrorless have tilt screens, a lot of Canikon APSc do as well.
But I had no trouble using a D800e for a while (although I did have to tighten the tightening screws with pliers when using it for nightscapes otherwise it would loosen itself off because of its weight).

The main drawcard though is weight savings and use of an EVF (electronic viewfinder) bt the main draw is the fabulous Sony sensors in Sony and Fuji mirrorless. They are simply superior by almost any measure and advance rapidly from generation to generation.

Nikon often use Sony sensors as well but not always.

Greg.
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