astronomy talk for 8 yo kids

musca in soup (Jim) · #1 12-09-2009, 11:29 AM

Hi all,
I have been asked to give a 'star talk' to 2 classes of year 2 (7&8yo) kids on an evening in a few weeks time (23 or 24 sept). Best guesstimate is about 50 kids and I presume some parents. One of the teachers has managed to get hold of 2 telescopes from a high school in town, and I will take mine down. (Don't have details of the telescopes yet)

I was thinking of getting everyone to bring rugs and lie on the middle of the school oval while I talk for a few minutes and shine a bright narrow beam torch around the sky, then maybe break into 3 or 4 groups with a telescope each (and adult/teacher manning the scopes) and maybe another group practicing how to find south, trace out scorpio and find a few other naked eye things.

The skies have always fascinated me and I'd say there'll be kids the same. I'd like to feed/encourage that fascination.

Any suggestions on what to look at/things to keep the masses busy while they wait their turn? I'm a bit worried about the numbers.

Jim

renormalised (Carl) · #2 12-09-2009, 11:43 AM

Have a constellation hunt to see who can find the most constellations and have the kids show you where they are.

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #3 12-09-2009, 11:43 AM

Moon, planets, M8, Omega centauri, 47 Tucanae, alpha centauri double stars, kappa crucis. It's a pity M42 and M45 won't be visible for you at that time. These spring to my mind. I'm sure others will add to the list.

Dave

Kevnool (Kev) · #4 12-09-2009, 03:37 PM

When i helped in a show, Most of them were interested in the moon and still we had to keep going back.

And for beginners show the bright showcase objects.

Cheers Kev.

Lumen Miner (Mitchell) · #5 12-09-2009, 07:21 PM

I might have to come along.

I often have trouble finding South.

Goodluck!!

A quick search of our site would suggest this http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ht=showing+sky.

I would second that, very helpful thread indeed, much more info than you will receive here.

musca in soup (Jim) · #6 12-09-2009, 07:59 PM

I was told that there are 4 ways to find the south celestial pole (SCP):
1. Where the right bisector of the pointers meets the extended long axis of the southern cross is the SCP;
2. extend the long axis of the southern cross 3+1/2 times its own length and that spot is the SCP;
3. find both magellanic clouds and create an imaginary 3rd point of an equilateral triangle, which will be a SCP;
4. use canopus and achenar as two corners of an equilateral triangle and the 3rd (imaginary point is the SCP)

When I lived at Ayers Rock the southern cross seemed to disappear below the horizon sometimes and you could use one of the other methods

Blue Skies (Jacquie) · #7 12-09-2009, 10:07 PM

I regularly speak to this age group at the planetarium in Perth, plus I've done lots of viewing nights with ASWA, so I've got a few tips for you that should work:

Keep it simple.

Don't fit in too much.

Focus on a few bright constellations - we always use the southern cross and the pointers and at this time of year include Scorpius and the teapot of Sagittarius. You don't need much else.

You might want to ask if they can see any patterns in the stars themselves - just let them make up a few random patterns (asterisms), it just gets their imagination going and helps them get the hang of constellations

They always want to know where planets are, so make sure you point out Jupiter. They might want to know where the others are, so be prepared: know that Mars and Venus are in the morning sky and Saturn behind the sun at the moment.

Don't forget the Milky Way - if you can see it.

Check before hand for any satellites, including the ISS and iridium flares, so you can get everyone to look up at the same time

Finding south using the cross might be beyond them - you might have to try it and see, but when I first started doing it in the planetarium the mothers would come up and say "that was too technical for my little Johnny" (or thereabouts

). I was taught it around that age and got the idea, but not everyone does. Play it by ear, so to speak, and if confused noises come through drop it as quick as you can and move on.

The objects Dave mentions about are probably best. Keep them bright objects, kids don't tend to be impressed with the faint stuff - although the adults might be!

Keep it short, after an hour they usually get restless in my experience, and go off and run around in the dark. So keep it simple and don't try to do too much.

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #8 12-09-2009, 11:52 PM

Oh yeah, constellations and milky way, duh! I forgot those!!! I had the pleasure about Six weeks ago of having a few kids at the scope. It was completely unintended, it was a young boy, his best mate, and the boy's father. They were visiting their sister who lived at our next door neighbours. I had a mate over and we were just starting viewing. We had a crack at Jupiter, Saturn, moon, 47 Tucanae, no Omega unfortunately as a tree was in the way, thus blocking the view), m57, alpha centauri. We spent an hour and a half, and we all had a blast, including the dad. It was great to have some young kids showing interest, they were really excited by it all. m57 was the least popular item, since it was faint and tiny. The moon and Jupiter were both the most popular items, followed closely by Saturn. If I was to add a bit to this, I'd say M8 would be one other item I'd consider, since some nebulosity is visible. Dark skies and a UHC filter would make it even better I suspect.

Don't neglect the parents - if you hook the parents, they're more likely to be inclined to come back for a return visit (and bring the kids) imho. If parents get bored, they won't bring the kids back, since it'll mean more boredom. That's my logic. Remember, parents dictate what kids generally think. If mum & dad likes something, odds are, the kids will as well. Monkey see, monkey do.

I don't think it's good to get over technical with them, the old k.i.s.s principle is always best when dealing with kids. Let them ask questions, encourage them to. Even the kids who ask silly questions should get a pat on the back - it's better to ask a question, even a silly one, than be silent.

Dave

Blue Skies (Jacquie) · #9 13-09-2009, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpastern

I don't think it's good to get over technical with them, the old k.i.s.s principle is always best when dealing with kids. Let them ask questions, encourage them to. Even the kids who ask silly questions should get a pat on the back - it's better to ask a question, even a silly one, than be silent.

Sometimes they ask really cool questions that show they're thinking, and I always say something along the lines of "That's an excellent question!" to let them know they've done good. Also ask leading questions, really obvious ones, like "What do we call this misty band of light running across the sky?" I find there is nearly always at least one kid that knows that its the Milky Way. By asking these kind of questions you start build up a dialogue with them, they feel good because they know stuff and then you've got their attention for the next item and they've got the idea of the 'game' you're playing with them. They wont respond well to just being lectured to, like an adult would. I often read that boys in particular will respond to a quiz game format of learning rather than a load of facts being read at them - its a bit of a competition, I think, and they want to 'win'.

Just thinking of a few more suggestions for things to do - I also usually ask if they can see anything that looks like a planet in the sky. Now this is a pretty open question, and they might point at all kinds of bright stars. Just let them go for a little bit, which lets them have a think about how do you tell which point of light is a planet, and which a star. Odds on a number of them are going to look at Antares at the moment, which as we know does look like Mars. You can point it out, explain what Antares means and how it got its name and that lead you onto Scorpius. Jupiter is just the really bright star that outshines all the others around it at the moment.

The above works well in the planetarium, where I'm in control of the show and leading them on, but out in the open I don't always have this luxury (other people running things), and kids often want to know how you can tell what is a planet and which is a star, so be prepared here. I don't find it easy, the answer could be along the lines of that you know the constellations and the planets are the stars that wander in and look out of place, or you just know them and watch them from week to week as they move through the sky.

ok, enough from me for now, I'd better stop before I stop making sense this late on a saturday night.

wavelandscott (Scott) · #10 13-09-2009, 12:39 AM

As others have said, KISS (Keep it simple silly) and as interactive as you can...

While more targeted to "classroom" lessons this might be another place to get some ideas...

http://www.astrosociety.org/index.html

Moon, planets, milky way (if visible) and a couple of constellations/asterisms should do the trick...

In the Southern Hemisphere I especially like the Southern Cross...they will have seen it on the flag and it is a good reminder...In the North lands it is the "big dipper" asterism...

Be ready with a few facts:
How far away is that?
How old is that?
How big is that?
How hot/bright is that? etc. etc.

Whenever possible, take them from something the "know" into an extension learning (something new)....

Constellations are always fun because they tell stories...remind them before TV,IPOD, Internet, books etc. people used the stars to tell stories and the shapes helped them remember...

Before it got dark, I handed out a page of starfields that they could draw their "own" constellations on (connect the dots with Ikea pencils) then I gave them the same star field with the traditional constellations/asterisms on them...and then we tried to find a couple of them

Have Fun!

garyp · #11 13-09-2009, 08:15 PM

Hi Jim, It sounds like you are in for a great time. I think the most important points are to keep it simple and have fun as others have said. Kids like lots of activity rather that sitting and listening so keep that part shorter or broken up with activity in between.

Have a great night.

Cheers

Gary

batema (Mark) · #12 13-09-2009, 09:01 PM

I did one for 80 Prep Yr 7 amd parents about a month ago and the group was split in two. I had 40 people for 45 min then they swapped while the viewers went for a bush walk. If you can get hold og a green laser that would be a great help. We had two scopes and did a little chat 5min at most including some aboriginal stories about the EMU, sun and moon looking like a boomerang. We looked at the Australian flag and talked about the importance of its features (Southern cross and the 6th star with spikes representing the states and territories. We only had time to look at the moon (loved that) and jupiter. try not to fit too much in and have fun. Take some photos but the lady who invited us to show basically took a photo of every kid as they were about to look. Have a chair or something so kids can reach the eyepiece.

Have fun

Mark

rmcpb (Rob) · #13 14-09-2009, 11:35 AM

I did a group of Joey Scouts a few weeks ago. We had a little talk about the solar system. They then made a model of the solar system with them holding a picture of the planet and standing the right distance from the sun (they were amazed at how far apart the outer planets were compare to the inner planets). I downloaded a solar system colouring in book from the web which they all attacked while they went off in pairs to have a quick squiz at the moon through one scope and Jupiter through the other.

We had a fantastic time except for the parents who kept pushing in on the scopes to have another look. The kids loved telling the parents to take their turn

mental4astro (Alexander) · #14 15-09-2009, 10:54 AM

Hi there,

Consider how many scopes you will be using & how susceptible they are to being nudged off target. You will need one person man each dob & either knows how to use it, or have them sit on the moon as it is the easiest to find. Eq scopes usually have decent clamps & a clock drive- have one sit on Jupiter because of the high power needed & choose the EP to suit conditions- may only be able to use 100X-150X. You may find if you don't have enough hands on deck to man scopes (and there is no way you can do two or more, scopes WILL be bumped many, many times) these scopes will chuff along happily, even with half decent alignment.

Have a look at my last entry in this forum on showing the sky to 4 & 5 year olds, http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...0&postcount=27. Don't think that the age group is too young- their parents weren't and you can only show & tell so much. Remember KISS. It is not 'dumbing down'. The sky is a big place & we've already had a lot of time to acquaint ourselves with it.

With respects to crowd control, you can break them up into two groups & deal with them one at a time, or all at once- they will patiently form ques behind each scope- scopes have a majesty that demands respect & patience I have found,

. Plus no one wants to damage one for the fear of paying for it. I had about 100 people at my last show & tell. No crowd control issues. More my own anxiety.

Clear skies for the night.

tlgerdes (Trevor) · #15 15-09-2009, 11:39 AM

I produced this for my 8yr old sons Astro Party in August, and have recycled it another school night (yr7s) in 2 weeks.

It is great to have something they can take away and see look mum I saw this!

Some of the wording might be a little over there heads, but it is something they can sit down and read with their parents as well.

mental4astro (Alexander) · #16 15-09-2009, 08:13 PM

Great list Trevor!

Plenty there to sporn discussion.

musca in soup (Jim) · #17 15-09-2009, 09:27 PM

Wow there is a stack of great help here! Thankyou everybody. It is really appreciated.

Things are moving along. We have 3, maybe 4 telescopes lined up and people to supervise them. There will likely be about 50 7-8 year olds and some parents. We are 'banning ' siblings to try and keep the numbers down a bit.

The teachers (my wife is one) will have covered some lead up topics in the days prior, using some of you people's ideas:

Dots on pages to 'make' their own constellations;
children standing on the oval at rough relative distances of solar system (thanks Rob)
Australian flag discussion (thanks Mark)
then a page of 'what we are going to look at' (thanks Trevor-excellent choices-can I copy some of your work and vary it some? ) to prime them to see things.

On the night we'll kick off at about 6:30 and I will talk along these lines:

stars have fascinated people for years and talk about how they have been used to tell time of year, navigate, create stories about the world and even morals (eg 7 sisters stories)
I'll tell them to look out for shooting stars and satellites, and call out if they see one so we can all look, then
talk in simple lingo about distances (using the KISS principle-thanks David, Scott, Jackie and Gary) then point out things that are different distances away "the light from xxxx left when ..." (a-centaurus: light left 4y ago same age as little brother or sister) Arcturus -parents age; g-crux g'parents; spica-Capt cook etc
then talk about all the dots in the sky and when you look at all those dots for long enough your brain starts to put some of them together and see shapes then point out southern cross, scorpio and a few zodiac constellations if they've heard of them, plus delphinus (which for some bizarre reason I really like).
then talk about planets and moon, incl moons effect on tides, animal behaviour
then look with telescopes: moon, jupiter, omega centaurus or 47 Tucana (haven't decided) and jewelbox and if time/enough help double stars (Mental thanks for your insights on this bit-read and noted)
then after they all go home and the 'core' pack of diehards remain, play with the GOTO and look at whatever we feel like for people who never get the chance to do so otherwise (possibly crack a bottle of red to assist with our creation of more imaginary constellations if the kids are all gone).

Everyone I mention this to wants to come! I think there must be stacks of closet star lovers out there amongst the parents!

Comments anyone?

By the way this is an unbelieveable site. I'm hooked!

mental4astro (Alexander) · #18 15-09-2009, 09:58 PM

Here is one for the diehards- NGC 253,

. Nice in your Meade.

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #19 15-09-2009, 10:24 PM

You'll be fine Jim. The main thing is that you enjoy it all, and so do the kids. If they learn anything, it's a bonus!

Dave

tlgerdes (Trevor) · #20 17-09-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musca in soup

then a page of 'what we are going to look at' (thanks Trevor-excellent choices-can I copy some of your work and vary it some? ) to prime them to see things.

If you want I can send you the Word doc to play with, just PM me an address it is about 600k. Most of the text is plagerised, the moon, jupiter and Acrux are my pics, the other two are off the net.