ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
Waning Gibbous 88.2%
|
|
20-09-2011, 10:06 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,617
|
|
Quantum Scientific Imaging 583wsg CCD Camera
Quantum Scientific Imaging 583wsg CCD Camera
This would seem to be an excellent camera. Versatile and Linux drivers supplied.
|
22-09-2011, 08:30 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 9,966
|
|
Is this a question or a statement? I agree it is a great camera and I have plenty of good images to show from using the camera.
|
22-09-2011, 09:21 PM
|
|
Really just a beginner
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,040
|
|
I wondered the same thing. I agree with your appraisal too though.
DT
|
22-09-2011, 11:57 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 957
|
|
Dogs.
Would seem to be family friendly pets. Good companions and loyal.
|
23-09-2011, 10:09 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,617
|
|
Can you tell me more about it, from a user hands on perspective? So far it is ticking all the boxes. I like the fact that it has manufacturers supplied Linux drivers and it can be used with a camera lens. I am not clear about guiding - is it built in?
|
24-09-2011, 10:51 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 9,966
|
|
The WSG version has guiding capacity but you need a guide camera and maybe the spacer to gain focus for the guide camera. The main camera is always focused first then the guide camera has to be moved to focus without touching the main focusor. It is all in the manual on how to do this, quite easy really.
Connection is easy and the camera works well with Maxim and CCDsoft. Cooling has been a slight issue in the past, but the new 6 version has deeper cooling, so that -20C can be maintained in summer.
Generally a very nice camera even in the 5 series versions.
|
24-09-2011, 09:26 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,617
|
|
I notice an OSC version. But the impression I get is that the monochrome has better image quality. The question that comes to mind is, whether OSC cameras are suitable for Ha or narrow band?
|
25-09-2011, 09:52 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 9,966
|
|
Ha is a narrow band light. Using a colour camera to capture narrowband will not be as accurate as using a monochrome camera. You can still produce fine images but I am not sure you can use the camera in the same way some of the DSLR guys do when imaging in narrow band.
|
27-09-2011, 06:27 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,617
|
|
Paul. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. The way I see it is this.
With an unguided set up that tracks well over exposures up 5 or 6 minutes (oldish Takahashi EM200b), upgrading hardware - encoders and so on - is probably an exponential leap that I can't justify - the additional expense vs the time I am able to dedicate seriously to imaging.
What I would like however, is to bypass the modded camera thing and the calibration efforts associated with DSLR's.
Possibly, the best option is an OSC without all the bells and whistles as a simple replacement for a DSLR - meeting the goals above. The down side is that if I ever have the time and opportunity to meet AP head on and do some serious imaging then I will need to spend again.
So my next question is what should I look for in an OSC camera - putting cost aside for the moment. As far as sensor quality is concerned and cooling capabilities, I'm interested in knowing what are considered quality OSC cameras. I am doing my own reading of course, but hands on experience is worth its weight in gold.
|
27-09-2011, 10:14 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 9,966
|
|
This I would look out for is pixel size and cooling. The KAF8300 or similar sized sensor works well with most refractors. Good cooling is a must in opinion. Being able to hold around -20C is fairly essential.
As for your mount; well no guiding means elongated stars. There are only a couple of mounts on the market that can work unguided and produce round stars at 5 minutes; all the rest need guiding. That would be the first thing I would fix. I cannot see how you are going to use the mount for AP unless you hand guide it yourself.
|
27-09-2011, 06:48 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,617
|
|
Yes. Surprisingly, this particular mount regularly does 5 mins with round stars, if I work hard at alignment. 3.5 minutes is optimum for my sky and does it easily, but still a limitation for more advanced work. I have a long way to go as far as that is concerned.
EDIT: This answers my question - looks like it's a monochrome if I go that way.
Last edited by rcheshire; 27-09-2011 at 07:09 PM.
|
29-09-2011, 07:39 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,996
|
|
If one shot colour is your interest I would seriously consider one of these new Kodak True Sense chips. These have twice the light sensitivity as the older Bayer matrix (the matrix of RGB coloured lenses on top of the sensor that makes them colour). Instead of a repeating pattern of RGGB (Bayer matrix) they are LRGB like we do with mono cameras and filters.
They also have small pixels which matches a lot of refractors and faster scopes.
Currently the 2 companies I am aware of that offer a camera with these chips are Apogee (Ascent series) and FLI ( Microline cameras).
These are usually KAI chips. They go from about 2.050 megapixels up to 50 megapixels. There is a KAI8050 with true sense.
These one shot colour chips have nearly double the sensitivity of the older types and whilst there are no examples so far of images using them it would be a safe bet that they will add a lot of interest in one shot colour imaging.
One shot colour has advantages over filtered mono imaging. Mainly as you point out, if you have unclear and often cloudy skies you can still capture a colour image as every image is in colour. They are cheaper as there is no filter wheel no filters. They are easier and quicker to process afterwards. Colour is often already semi balanced compared to filter mono imaging.
Traditionally though this comes at the cost of sensitivity and lack of ability to do narrowband efficently.
These True Sense would also be better at narrowband than the older types.
Ascent series by Apogee are quite cheap and small and light and would be a decent camera I imagine.
Check out the Kodak Sensor Solutions website for a list of all their current chips they sell and Apogee and FLI websites or look them up at optcorp.com.
Greg.
|
07-10-2011, 12:18 PM
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maribyrnong
Posts: 160
|
|
QSI 583wsg experience
I have owned the camera for over a year and it has had faultless and exceptional performance. If you are interested in a colour CCD you would probably need one without the filter wheel. I have not had any trouble reaching -20°C when I am outside. It needs some airflow to achieve it on the very warmest nights. My experience is the noise at -15°C and -20°C are not significantly different but as you are reaching for the faintest possible signal anything you can do to improve it should be used. As I can reach -20°C all year round it means I have a reduced number of darks by standardising on one temperature. In the coldest weather I could get down to -30°C but would need more darks. The electronics in this camera add very little noise and are designed to extract as much signal as possible. Would I buy the same camera again? Yes, Yes, Yes.
|
07-10-2011, 09:19 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,996
|
|
I can see the appeal of the camera. The 683 would be the one to get as it is closer in performance to the FLI.
I know the 8300 chip is pretty clean and you can "get away with" -20C but I image at -35C all year round with the FLI and often -40C.
As you say not a lot of difference but there is some. The fast downloads in the FLI etc are a plus but I would accept lesser cooling on the right chip for a built in offaxis guider. Not all chips though. You wouldn't do that with the KAF09000 for example.
Also as your chip ages it may develop vertical lines etc. These defects fade with more powerful cooling and are less of a problem. Then the advantage of the extra cooling becomes more useful.
Also if you use RBI control (only on FLI and Apogee) the extra cooling is important in reducing the extra noise the RBI control creates. Again with the 8300 you probably aren't experiencing significant RBI even though it is there but I wouldn't do a dark after imaging a glob or something. You may see it then. Do your darks as a separate imaging session - not after a series of light exposures unless you are using a KAI series chip.
Greg.
|
08-10-2011, 07:57 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 573
|
|
I have also owned a QSI-583wsg for over a year now.
It came amazingly clean, but has developed a hot column as the chip has aged. The hot column fades away as the camera gets cold. I gather this sort of thing is common.
The only thing I don't like about the camera is the slow download time. QSI have fixed that in the 600 series.
|
08-10-2011, 10:02 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 957
|
|
I have a QSI 6800 on order with upgraded large filter wheel with a full set of Astrodon Gen II's LRGB, HA,O2,SIII
Cant wait :-)
|
08-10-2011, 11:43 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,996
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by frolinmod
I have also owned a QSI-583wsg for over a year now.
It came amazingly clean, but has developed a hot column as the chip has aged. The hot column fades away as the camera gets cold. I gather this sort of thing is common.
The only thing I don't like about the camera is the slow download time. QSI have fixed that in the 600 series.
|
All CCD chips deteriorate over time from radiation damage. I read though that some high end cameras like Princeton that use vacuum chambers for the CCD do not deteriorate as much. Interesting.
My Proline16803 developed a vertical line about 2 months ago. Most 16803 chips have one or two when brand new. Mine had none.
It fades with higher cooling and dark subtracts out neatly.
Hot pixels appearing over time is common. Its nothing to do with the camera and is a fact of life with CCD chips.
There is a paper that demonstrates how these defects fade with higher cooling temps that is very demonstrative. Really though all you need to do is make new darks every 6 months or so or when you notice a new defect.
Greg.
|
08-10-2011, 11:47 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,996
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cventer
I have a QSI 6800 on order with upgraded large filter wheel with a full set of Astrodon Gen II's LRGB, HA,O2,SIII
Cant wait :-)
|
Which model is that - the 683WSG?
The 600 series seem to be a very good improvement from the 583 with fast downloads and better cooling. A built in filter wheel and offaxis guider is appealling.
I am assuming the offaixs guider works well and is easy to use?
A good choice and a nice modern camera that matches a lot of scopes under 1500mm focal length.
The KAF8300 chip really seems to tick a lot of boxes for astronomy.
Greg.
|
08-10-2011, 12:31 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 957
|
|
Yup got the 683 WSG-8 with upgraded 31mm filter wheel
|
08-10-2011, 10:43 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 4,485
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cventer
Yup got the 683 WSG-8 with upgraded 31mm filter wheel
|
Ooooooh, very nice. I'm envious and it should be a really great camera.
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +10. The time is now 08:46 AM.
|
|