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  #21  
Old 16-08-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by leon View Post
Gee Alex you are a fascinating fella, with some great talent and great history telling stories.
You are probably right to an extent, so where do we start looking for this hidden treasures.

Leon
Leon I realised that I did not actually answer your question as to where to start looking.

My view is that any civilization would be concentrated around the mouths of rivers in much the same way that we notice today.


So the place to really look would be where rivers met the sea when sea levels were at the pre sea rise event..that appears to be some 400 feet...I have not been able to check the ice cores data which is relied upon to determine the rise but for the moment lets us assume the story that sea levels rose by 400 odd feet...It would be in these regions that one may expect to find something...of course any ruins would be well covered with the silt build up of some 12000 years but I would imagine if there was anyone around the main body of people and buildings would be in similar situations to where we place our cities and populations today.


It would be hard to find stuff no doubt..at 30 foot rise in twenty four hours probably would not have been a mild none destructive event and so one could expect massive damage ..think of the devestation in Japan and other places when the water came rushing in...


Imagine if today we were subject to such a disaster..would you find New York or London or LA or just so many of our biggest cities in 12000 years from now..and what was left would be taken over by those who survived...we may be looking at their building in the pyramids for example but as others have moved in you would not think of someone earlier....


I recall that the Dogger Bank was at one point above sea level and thye have found evidence of human occupation.. I must look into when it went under...but there we have a case where it is so hard to imagine that once folk lived where now all we find is open sea.


Make sure you look at that last video..its short but I suspect will get you wondering.


How are the hickups?


alex

Last edited by xelasnave; 16-08-2019 at 06:36 PM.
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  #22  
Old 16-08-2019, 06:30 PM
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Also for everyone and slightly off topic..check out the underground cities in Turkey...capable of housing 20,000 people..joined to another similar cities via a five mile long tunnel...these went down many levels eight I recall..maybe more..cut out of the bedrock..they had places for animals even...they go down some 200 feet underground.

Why they went underground no one knows but folk who believe the Earth was subject to comet bombardment think they went underground because the sky was falling...there are a lot of nutter videos and I tried to get a decent link but could not find something that just talked about the facts..their size etc and leave out their speculation.But there is a wiki entry I think...
but they were something that I had never heard about until about six months ago and they are simply unbelievable and I have no idea why you don't hear more about them..I do not know when they are are dated..but please check them out as they will blow you away.

alex
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Old 17-08-2019, 07:54 AM
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In the USA there are interesting features known as the Carolina Bays and this video links their formation with the comet impact referred to in the material above. https://binged.it/2MlQKHf
alex
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Old 17-08-2019, 10:51 AM
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Re Clovis people's. This somewhat vindicates some of Hancock's comments in the earlier video.

From Wiki...

The "Clovis first theory" refers to the 1950s hypothesis that the Clovis culture represents the earliest human presence in the Americas, beginning about 13,000 years ago; evidence of pre-Clovis cultures has accumulated since 2000, pushing back the possible date of the first peopling of the Americas to about 13,200–15,500 years ago.

Alex
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Old 17-08-2019, 10:54 AM
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The hypothesis re comet impact is that the sudden disappearance of the Clovis people was a direct result of the comet impact referred to throughout this thread.
Alex
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  #26  
Old 18-08-2019, 08:33 AM
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Here is a short video supportive of Hancocks claims that
mainstream is/was wrong about the earliest humans in America.
I took the time to look at the video again, the one that David paralleled to a Moon hoax status...I can only think David was being sarcastic as there is nothing in that video to put it in the Moon hoax class and perhaps David saying he did not bother to look at all of it was the ultimate sarcasm directed at folk who have a view point that they protect be refusing to look at any evidence that may threaten their position of belief.

If it was sarcasm I say brilliant ...if not perhaps others who actually watch the video may care to comment upon it...not this one but the one on the first page where David said it was no better than Moon hoax stuff. This one here is one that is interesting from the point of view that much work is being done which just keeps pushing the dates back.
https://youtu.be/y_7JJ0YP9Es

I have been looking to find what work is being done to establish the age of the suspected impact crator in Greenland...so far it seems no one is drilling thru the ice to date this thing...also I am on the track of yet another "young" crator site I think about 100 miles from the first one...multiple crators would be good to determine if there is more to the story...some folk into this have predicted multiple crators so it will be interesting if these folk deemed ratbags will be proved right



Alex
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  #27  
Old 18-08-2019, 08:46 AM
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And for some balance from Climate.org


Among our reasons for skepticism (again, see our earlier post on this) there is a basic statistical problem. The problem is — and this context is missing from most if not all of the articles we’ve seen on this — that explaining the Younger Dryas in terms of an impact leaves all the other rapid climate change events (the so-called “Dansgaard-Oeschger events”) of the last glacial period unexplained.* One would have to either accept the conventional ideas for the causes of these events, or, alternatively, one would have to propose that there was an impact not only before the Younger Dryas, but before each of the earlier events....end of selected section of article.

The above raises an interesting point which is the prospect that impacts are relatively common.

If you look at the graphs you will see the fluctuations of the Younger Dead are really the same as many before it...certainly the question arises that must be ...why..

Alex
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  #28  
Old 18-08-2019, 09:47 AM
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https://youtu.be/1MKyJyNIklg

Another bid re pre Clovis and a guy actually saying he did not look past a certain level because he believed he would find nothing.

And I sense the general refusal of folk to take the prospect of a comet impact seriously or to even look at the evidence, and there is considerable evidence other than the new possible impact site found in a strata with stuff associated with something no terrestrial.
If you are interested you may care to look but clearly there are those who don't care, and those who perhaps don't want a different version of history.

I find it all most interesting of course.

And I get the feeling that world shattering impacts may be somewhat the norm.

I guess our managers don't want us to be concerned with the prospect of destruction ... But one only has to look at various events which suggest there is probably more stuff still flying about than we would like to admit.
Thank goodness NASA has increased its budget to list the objects that may pose a threat...also maybe our managers want us to fear other things that they claim they can manage...and certainly folk may not be so happy if the prospect of possible hits were shown to be somewhat inevitable.

Anyways I hope those who have followed this thread have been entertained and hopefully informed.
Alex
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  #29  
Old 18-08-2019, 11:12 AM
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Regarding the demise of the Megafauna, sometime ago I saw a documentary called "Death of the Megafauna" (it's on DVD, your local library may have a copy). Up to then the commonly held belief was that the Megafauna (marsupial lion, giant kangaroo etc etc) were wiped out due to the arrival of the aborigines to Australia and were hunted to extinction. Someone eventually crunched some numbers and came to the conclusion that it didn't add up.


Archaeologists started seeing signs of heavy burning at the same stratified levels as the animal bones and eventually came to the conclusion that they disappeared due to the aboriginals habit of burning off the land which changed the climate of the country. Prior to their arrival it appears the country had far more greenery and dense growth, but constant, uncontrolled burning slowly killed off many plant species and only those that could survive burning were left.


It makes sense to me.
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  #30  
Old 18-08-2019, 01:06 PM
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Thank you for joining in Richard.
I still find it hard to accept that humans could cause any harm

You may find this interesting

https://amp.theguardian.com/australi...una-extinction

I do think the key to the various propositions we are presented with is to listen but not to become invested in a particular idea.
I was just saying to my father that I don't care if there was an ancient civilization or not and if the Eygptians did or did not build the pyramids...what is clear however most folk form an opinion and of course thereafter that opinion becomes fact as it were...when one studies the various ideas that at one time were seen as fact only to be cast out at some later point I think forming a rock solid opinion has no merit...and certainly closes the door on what clearly explains everything which of course is ALIENS......when you look around at what people can believe in I think it is perhaps best not to be too critical of their views no matter how strange they could appear ...from the Desiderata..listen to the full and the ignorant for they too have their story...that means listen to me of course..but no the whole thing with the Desiderata is a message of I suppose non commitale and to remain calm and somewhat neutral.

Thanks again for your input as it caused me to have a look at the material on Australian mega fauna generally..and I expect that is how I will spend the afternoon as it is a most interesting subject.
Alex
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  #31  
Old 18-08-2019, 05:17 PM
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Very interesting. It's sheer co-incidence, of course, that this extinction coincided with the arrival of the aboriginals.


Lately I have been reading such little gems as "the aboriginals have the oldest evolving culture in the world", they practiced controlled burning to manage the land, developed complex aquaculture farming methods etc.


Make of that what you will.......



And yes, of course it was aliens who built the pyramids etc, I thought everyone knew that.
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  #32  
Old 18-08-2019, 05:56 PM
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Very interesting. It's sheer co-incidence, of course, that this extinction coincided with the arrival of the aboriginals.


Lately I have been reading such little gems as "the aboriginals have the oldest evolving culture in the world", they practiced controlled burning to manage the land, developed complex aquaculture farming methods etc.


Make of that what you will.......



And yes, of course it was aliens who built the pyramids etc, I thought everyone knew that.
The aspect I thought was interesting is the different conclusions reached by folk ..I mean competing scientists.


I bet volcanic erruptions are possibly a cause..when you look at how erruptions have influenced history they would be the first thig to investigate..I have read proposals of how a volcanic eruption was in effect indirectly responsible for the French revolution..it effected the climate caused crop failures etc creating a unhappy world etc...anyways that is not the only link with volcanoes...


The problem when you get into history on the net is it seems every second idiot is proposing ALIENS...sure they out there but I bet they have never visited Earth...I mean it is probable that other life exists in the Universe and possibly intelligent life but the distances and the ruling physics says no one is going anywhere even close...our closest star...I have heard estimates of 100,000 years plus to get there..you only have to do some sums.. ... so that sort of space travel is beyond my imagination.


One thing is...irrespective of who actually built the pyramids or cut out the massive megalith known as the pregnant woman etc I find it extraordinary that anyone could do such things or why they would want to... I do think they must have had tools we are not aware of ..being absent from the historical record... using bronze tools seems unacceptable..I do think in the past they may have used tools with diamond (or similar hard gems)cutting edges..they would have to have had something like that...nevertheless some of the workmanship is probably not easy to do these days..certainly funding a pyramid build would not be easy...unless in Dubia.

I do think the estimate of 20 years for the great pyramid just can not be correct...20 years is seized upon as the reign of the king at that time and that is on the basis they were for tombs..anyways if they could lay 10 plus blocks an hour for twenty years ..every hour of every day..non stop twenty years...as I said I doubt if you could fit the necessary work force on the job site..actually that's what I will do later..work out the number of workers per square meter so many per block etc area of the place...mmm good one for dropping off to sleep..I will save it for then.

But one thing that seems clear is that the pyramids were not tombs if what we find is to be taken as a reasonable indicator... why that is popular conception is odd I find.

alex
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  #33  
Old 18-08-2019, 07:55 PM
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Recently lake Condah in south western Victoria has been added to the world heritage list as on of the ealiest man made stuctures in thd world.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-...-list/11271804
Some of the eel traps and stone stuctures are well over 6000 years.
We have so much ancient history here in Australia but we normally just walk over it and build on too of it.
Whilst working on a 1860s "Chinese built"woolshed ive discovered that the local aborigines help build the stone shed not the Chinese who were on their way to the goldfields about 8 years earlier.
At the same time the first aboriginal 11 cricket team went to England from this area and included workers on the station where this woolshed is built.
After the end the decade there was cultural and physical genocide with the last of the indigenous population rounded up into missions and the last of the ancient stone stuctures around the west wimmera destroyed. Luckily some the Budu Bin site was not completely destroyed but ive found old 1850s drawings that show about 30 or more stone huts and a whole eel trap system that was then drained for farmland and the aborigines kicked off.
Years later a nicer stories came to be about with the chinese on the way to goldfields built it or chinamans well etc.
History has been rewitten in such a short time (about 150 years), it could be plausible that an earlier civilization had been in the Americas 11000 years before.
Cheers
Andy
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  #34  
Old 18-08-2019, 11:49 PM
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Alex, it seems like you need a dose of Randall Carlson. He's a Builder/Designer by day and a Geological/Anthropological Theorist by night. For the past three decades he's been collecting data to support his theories. There's a lot of crossover between his theories and that of Hancock. Maybe there's some truth to them maybe there isn't who knows but one thing for sure they do raise questions.

Unfortunately there are a lot of reputations/egos at stake if history has to be rewritten, so sometimes when things challenge the text books they are quickly dismissed. Very few dare to challenge what is broadly accepted in fear of ruining their career, losing funding for their work and/or being ridiculed by peers.

Those who go against the grain usually don't have it easy, even if their arguments seem plausible.
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Old 19-08-2019, 07:25 AM
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Hi Lostinsp_ce,
I know what you meen about proposing new theories.
Im in a small town and even just mentioning about aborigines building the woolshed is causing quite a stir.
Its like im taking something away from them.
Alex, your proposal will ruffle a few feathers but i like it.
Cheers
Andy
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Old 19-08-2019, 08:55 AM
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Hi Andy
All interesting stuff..thanks for outlining it all.


I cant take credit for any of this stuff as it all comes from others and anyone can look and find this sort of thing on the net.


I would not look at this sort of thing once as so much is an association with Atlantis and I always thought that was a myth.
Atlantis however means different things to different people...I no longer think of it as a mythical island that sank but as a term that is a placeholder for a hypothisised earlier civilization that may have existed before the Younger Dryas event.


But for so many folk they hear this stuff and burr up and reject it without investigating it at all...and for no other reason than they have formed their beliefs and as I said unfortunately when folk form a belief they consider them to be facts...usually facts and beliefs are two very different things.

Me I am very lucky I don't believe in anything or that anything I hear is necessarily the truth..heck I don't buy the big bang theory and that seems to be proved beyond doubt...but with humans we can tell each other we have it all worked out and so any one who may see an alternative or a flaw is never taken seriously and usually attacked and labled a fool, a nutter, etc... but it is funny how through out history we can often see that these nutters have been vindicated and the mob who thought they knew it all proved to be just wrong.


So I like sitting on the fence...when it all boils down...I don't know...I have to rely on others to interpret their findings, I have to accept that they made correct interpretations...now all that tells me there is no point in taking a stand on anything at all...take big bang..basically it stands or falls on the universe expanding..and all say it is and all say there measurements tests reseach etc is correct and everyone around are all satisfied that they have the expansion down pat...and now no one will every look at the possibility that our observations supporting expansion could be flawed... tired light explains red shift a little voice at the back of the room murmers...heritic, fool, nutter, crank throw him out, banish him...well what if that poor fool is correct? the big bang can only be a mirage... now I don't say I know either way but I doubt that we say unequivocally that we really do know...and then think who came up with the idea...someone who has been raised with a preoccupation of a creation...so I see there could be vested reasons for a support that really don't want that little voice in the back of the room questioning anything at all...so remaining unconvinced either way is my way of dealing with everything no matter how well it is established researched etc....

And so all this stuff re Younger Dryas one has to just take on board and look at the evidence the proponents offer...but I cant look at the ice cores so how can I believe the sea did rise..for example....

But when you look at this stuff you certainly get the impression many valid aspects are probable, certainly it seems funny that the pyramids are presented as tombs when there is no evidence, it seems odd that folk reject the evidence of a comet impact or seek an implausible eplaination for the mega fauna die out...maybe it is the influence of those who believe the world is only 6000 years old who although not believed perhaps impose considerable influence in a political sense to guide funding. Who knows I certainly don't but as I said all one can do is look at all the presented facts and avoid forming a belief and then labling your belief the facts.

I just can not understand why folk get upset with new or different information without a recognition that it is belief that they are defending...I think belief can inhibit the search for truth... but often truth is not the issue I guess.

I don't care probably everything we think we know will change somewhat over the coming centuries like it has tended to do in the past.

Alex
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  #37  
Old 19-08-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by LostInSp_ce View Post
Alex, it seems like you need a dose of Randall Carlson. He's a Builder/Designer by day and a Geological/Anthropological Theorist by night. For the past three decades he's been collecting data to support his theories. There's a lot of crossover between his theories and that of Hancock. Maybe there's some truth to them maybe there isn't who knows but one thing for sure they do raise questions.

Unfortunately there are a lot of reputations/egos at stake if history has to be rewritten, so sometimes when things challenge the text books they are quickly dismissed. Very few dare to challenge what is broadly accepted in fear of ruining their career, losing funding for their work and/or being ridiculed by peers.

Those who go against the grain usually don't have it easy, even if their arguments seem plausible.
Thanks ..I have seen a little of Randell.

I know how humans group and like to label anyone who does not conform to the groups beliefs as a nutter or a fool...imagine if you walked into a football club and said it seemed rather silly that week after week year after year you guys do nothing but indulge an obsession to take that little ball over the line of the other side as if that action defines your life.

Imagine going against the grain anywhere on anything... the response is predictable and no doubt is rooted in our tribal past.

But let the egos and career battles go on, and the football and live in the hope that some truth will pass your way I guess.

Alex
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Old 19-08-2019, 09:16 AM
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This video requires patience..the presentor is credentialed and really appears to know his stuff...and certainly offers evidence that completely shows the once mainstream notion re Clovis people is probably incorrect.
What I did find surprising in this video is the sheer number of artifacts ..not just a couple here and a couple there but it shows sites where you can probably get a truck load in a week end.

As I said slow to take off so for those of you who look at a minute and make up your mind and jump around so as not to expose yourself to stuff that may change your view...don't...either watch it all or don't bother..but I feel for those who hold a genuine interest in this stuff to do the hard yards and spend the time it takes to hear this guy out.

Solutreans:The first Americans. Dr Standford Emerson centre 2012

I will get a link for you later.

alex
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Old 19-08-2019, 09:22 AM
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Here is the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ntiWciV1C0

alex
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Old 19-08-2019, 09:53 AM
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Look for the part where they found stone tools in USA that were made from flint that came from France.
alex
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