Go Back   IceInSpace > Beginners Start Here > Beginners Astrophotography

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 28-11-2020, 08:49 PM
Zuts
Registered User

Zuts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,606
NGC 3372, Eta Carina Nebula

NGC 3372, Eta Carina Nebula

30 by 240 sec, darks + flats + bias
TV85 + ASI 1600 Pro MC, Guiding with ASI 120 MM Mini
0.8 Flattener/reducer/ZWO duo band filter

Processed in StarTools

Taken from Glebe, Bortle 9, plus 80 % moon, filtered

Second go at processing using a synthetic green/blue channel
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (f1-32INGC3372.jpg)
210.3 KB71 views
Click for full-size image (f1-32INGC3372Synth.jpg)
212.9 KB24 views

Last edited by Zuts; 30-11-2020 at 10:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28-11-2020, 09:02 PM
raymo
Registered User

raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: margaret river, western australia
Posts: 5,556
That's a ripper, but the filter effects mean that it is not to my taste, with none
of its natural colours being present.
raymo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28-11-2020, 09:21 PM
Zuts
Registered User

Zuts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymo View Post
That's a ripper, but the filter effects mean that it is not to my taste, with none
of its natural colours being present.
raymo
I agree with you 100 %; But what can you do under a full moon in Glebe, 3km out of the CBD (stay at the pub ...). I am going to try again with my UHC-E filter plus UV/IR which seems to give better colour results in these conditions.

I am a bit disappointed with this filter, I just got it. I also have 1 hour of the Rosette, but strangely the filter can't cope with that much light pollution. Carina was taken South East and detail is Ok. The Rosette was North West and within 10 degrees of the 80% moon, 4 minute subs were very difficult to process with so much noise, I thought the filter would be immune from Moon glow but maybe not.

Anyway it gives me a chance to get out and about so it's all good. You cant beat no moon and a dark sky with only a UV/IR filter; so I enjoyed my recent stay 40 km outside of Bathurst
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28-11-2020, 10:19 PM
raymo
Registered User

raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: margaret river, western australia
Posts: 5,556
Have you thought about photographing some of the beautifully coloured double and triple stars, and seeing if you can split some of the really close ones?
raymo
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28-11-2020, 10:22 PM
Zuts
Registered User

Zuts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymo View Post
Have you thought about photographing some of the beautifully coloured double and triple stars, and seeing if you can split some of the really close ones?
raymo
I was thinking about doing a sort of star catalog, to show the colours of various major stars and clusters, like the Albireo double. But I think you need a dark sky except for the really bright ones? At the moment I am trying to get my 9.25 up to speed to grab some galaxies.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28-11-2020, 11:17 PM
raymo
Registered User

raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: margaret river, western australia
Posts: 5,556
So I can expect to see The Zuts Star and Cluster Catalogue at some time in
the not too distant future.
raymo
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29-11-2020, 12:11 AM
Zuts
Registered User

Zuts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymo View Post
So I can expect to see The Zuts Star and Cluster Catalogue at some time in
the not too distant future.
raymo
Sure, why not. Though it would be a bit boring. Zuts1 Sirius, Zuts2 Betelgeuse ... and so on

But yeah, why not, I have always admired those planetary guys with a shot of each planet...

Cheers
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29-11-2020, 06:55 AM
Startrek (Martin)
Registered User

Startrek is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,958
Paul
Nice image of Carina but I’d agree about the colour
Since your using a ZWO Duoband filter have you used the Composite preset in Startools which is specifically designed for Narrowband
It creates synthetic colour blends, Ivo Jager the developer showed me how to use it
Ive used it and it works a treat under full lit moon and Bortle 8 with a ZWO Duoband
Here’s a couple on the Tarantula last full moon in Sydney
I can send you a procedure if you want ?
Martin
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (2225F8CD-2B7C-4E33-8D00-7C38744D50D8.jpg)
207.0 KB30 views
Click for full-size image (3FC0657E-E28D-46B5-9696-EFA61DCE3EBF.jpg)
211.0 KB26 views
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29-11-2020, 07:29 AM
Startrek (Martin)
Registered User

Startrek is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,958
One caveat I should mention , objects that are strongly Ha dominate like M16 , the Startools Composite synthetic colour blends don’t work as well but Carina has all 3 gases nicely balanced across the object so it should work well
I’ve yet to capture Carina with my 2600MC , waiting for it to get higher in the sky early on so I’m not imaging at 3am in the morning.Maybe start next month or January
Cheers
Martin
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29-11-2020, 11:24 AM
Zuts
Registered User

Zuts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
One caveat I should mention , objects that are strongly Ha dominate like M16 , the Startools Composite synthetic colour blends don’t work as well but Carina has all 3 gases nicely balanced across the object so it should work well
I’ve yet to capture Carina with my 2600MC , waiting for it to get higher in the sky early on so I’m not imaging at 3am in the morning.Maybe start next month or January
Cheers
Martin
Hi Martin, I haven't used the preset and would appreciate it if you sent me the procedure.

Yeah, I was out in the park until 5am on Saturday morning getting that data and called it quits when I noticed the Southern Cross starting to disappear. All good though.

Will look forward to seeing your version of Carina, the 2600 mc is a great camera.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 29-11-2020, 05:07 PM
Startrek (Martin)
Registered User

Startrek is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,958
Paul,
Here’s the procedure how to the Composite module but you need to have Startools version 1.6

Composite Module Startools V1.6
Using OSC Camera and Multi Narrowband OSC Filters eg ZWO Duoband Filter

1/ Open Startools
2/ Select Composite
3/ Change Luminance Colour setting to L + Synthetic L from RGB Mono ( leave all other settings as default )
3/ Create a Synthetic Composite of say “Cyan” by selecting Green tab and load your selected stacked file ( data )
4/ Select Blue tab and load your selected stacked file ( data )
5/ Leave exposure sliders as default
7/ Press Keep , then Linear
8/ Press Compose again
9/ Now load your selected stacked file ( data ) by selecting Luminance tab, open and load
10/ Now load your selected stacked file ( data ) by selecting Red tab , open and load
11/ Press Green tab and select and load your New Composite ( Green Blue )
12/ Now press Blue tab and select and load your New Composite ( Green Blue )
13/ Press Keep and then Linear
14/ Now process your image as normal ......Bin , AutoDev, Crop, Wipe etc... you will be processing in Synthetic Luminance or Mono until you hit the Colour module
15/ When you hit the Colour module “do not touch” the presets at the top like Constancy , Legacy , SHO , Duoband etc... as these are for Mono cameras
Just use Scientific Style and play around with your Red , Green and Blue colour bias sliders
You can try changing the LRGB Method Emulation to either of the 5 presets but I find either Straight Luminance or RGB Ratio work well
16 / Additionally you can create a “Magenta Composite” by loading Red and Blue in the procedure above or even Green / Red but I’ve never tried that.You also adjust the exposure times a bit and experiment
17/ You can even just load basic LRGB in Composite without creating a Synthetic colour but in the Composite module you need to change the Luminance Colour to L+ Synthetic L from RGB , RGB then load your data once into Luminance, Red ,Green and Blue but increase the exposure time in Green to double that of Red and Blue ( 2hrs 120m ( 7200s ) because of the Bayer Matrix in OSC colour cameras green samples 2 pixels
Then press Keep and Linear and process as normal , again you will be processing in Synthetic Luminance Mono until you hit the Colour Module

Hope all the above makes sense
Good Luck !!!

Cheers
Martin
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 29-11-2020, 05:14 PM
raymo
Registered User

raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: margaret river, western australia
Posts: 5,556
After reading that lot, no wonder I stuck with JPEGS and DSS, makes my
head spin.
raymo
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 29-11-2020, 05:58 PM
Startrek (Martin)
Registered User

Startrek is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymo View Post
After reading that lot, no wonder I stuck with JPEGS and DSS, makes my
head spin.
raymo
Raymo

It looks like a mouth full but it’s fairly simple , I chose Startools 3 years ago as I’m a beginner and looked at Photoshop , Pixinsight and others with histograms , levels , curves black points etc. and I thought to myself this is too damn difficult so I opted for Startools and never looked back
Startools just has sliders ( no brainer stuff ) which processes directly in front of your eyes , plus you can go back and forward , it’s a very intuitive powerful processing software ideal for beginner and advanced alike
Kudos to Ivo Jager the developer !!

Martin
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 29-11-2020, 09:55 PM
Zuts
Registered User

Zuts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Paul,
Here’s the procedure how to the Composite module but you need to have Startools version 1.6

Composite Module Startools V1.6
Using OSC Camera and Multi Narrowband OSC Filters eg ZWO Duoband Filter

1/ Open Startools
2/ Select Composite
3/ Change Luminance Colour setting to L + Synthetic L from RGB Mono ( leave all other settings as default )
3/ Create a Synthetic Composite of say “Cyan” by selecting Green tab and load your selected stacked file ( data )
4/ Select Blue tab and load your selected stacked file ( data )
5/ Leave exposure sliders as default
7/ Press Keep , then Linear
8/ Press Compose again
9/ Now load your selected stacked file ( data ) by selecting Luminance tab, open and load
10/ Now load your selected stacked file ( data ) by selecting Red tab , open and load
11/ Press Green tab and select and load your New Composite ( Green Blue )
12/ Now press Blue tab and select and load your New Composite ( Green Blue )
13/ Press Keep and then Linear
14/ Now process your image as normal ......Bin , AutoDev, Crop, Wipe etc... you will be processing in Synthetic Luminance or Mono until you hit the Colour module
15/ When you hit the Colour module “do not touch” the presets at the top like Constancy , Legacy , SHO , Duoband etc... as these are for Mono cameras
Just use Scientific Style and play around with your Red , Green and Blue colour bias sliders
You can try changing the LRGB Method Emulation to either of the 5 presets but I find either Straight Luminance or RGB Ratio work well
16 / Additionally you can create a “Magenta Composite” by loading Red and Blue in the procedure above or even Green / Red but I’ve never tried that.You also adjust the exposure times a bit and experiment
17/ You can even just load basic LRGB in Composite without creating a Synthetic colour but in the Composite module you need to change the Luminance Colour to L+ Synthetic L from RGB , RGB then load your data once into Luminance, Red ,Green and Blue but increase the exposure time in Green to double that of Red and Blue ( 2hrs 120m ( 7200s ) because of the Bayer Matrix in OSC colour cameras green samples 2 pixels
Then press Keep and Linear and process as normal , again you will be processing in Synthetic Luminance Mono until you hit the Colour Module

Hope all the above makes sense
Good Luck !!!

Cheers
Martin
Hi Martin,

Doesn't really work for me. I basically get a mono image. When I use the colour module and adjust the sliders i get colour but it's the same colour across the image.

1. From DSS I am saving as 32 bit integer FIT file.

After step 7 when I return to the main menu the image on the screen is labelled NewComposite.TIFF.

2. You say to press composite again and re-load L and R from the original stacked data and Green and Blue from the composite. I can't find anyway of selecting the composite unless I save the image NewComposite.TIFF at step 7. Is this correct?

3. Also do I keep L + Synthetic L from RGB Mono for steps 9,10,11,12

4. Is it a problem that my data stack is .FIT but my composite is .TIFF

Cheers
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 30-11-2020, 06:29 AM
Startrek (Martin)
Registered User

Startrek is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuts View Post
Hi Martin,

Doesn't really work for me. I basically get a mono image. When I use the colour module and adjust the sliders i get colour but it's the same colour across the image.

1. From DSS I am saving as 32 bit integer FIT file.

After step 7 when I return to the main menu the image on the screen is labelled NewComposite.TIFF.

2. You say to press composite again and re-load L and R from the original stacked data and Green and Blue from the composite. I can't find anyway of selecting the composite unless I save the image NewComposite.TIFF at step 7. Is this correct?

3. Also do I keep L + Synthetic L from RGB Mono for steps 9,10,11,12

4. Is it a problem that my data stack is .FIT but my composite is .TIFF

Cheers
Paul
Paul,
I’ll run through my procedure again tonight as I’m busy today with grandkids
And check every step then get back to you
Ok
Martin
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 30-11-2020, 10:41 AM
raymo
Registered User

raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: margaret river, western australia
Posts: 5,556
No intent to hijack this thread, but I still don't know how to attach a photo to an email; I'm on a different planet from the rest of you computerwise.
raymo
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 30-11-2020, 04:38 PM
Zuts
Registered User

Zuts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Paul,
I’ll run through my procedure again tonight as I’m busy today with grandkids
And check every step then get back to you
Ok
Martin
Thanks Martin, whenever you get some time that would be great.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 30-11-2020, 06:20 PM
RyanJones
Registered User

RyanJones is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 1,139
Time Zuts, lots more time. And if you’re in light polluted skies like we are you can double or triple that again. I’ve been in the same position with my STC duo both with a DSLR and now a cooled astro camera. I bet you if you give it another 2 hours of data ( at a bare minimum) , you will find processing an order of magnitude easier. That is also compounded again by the ZWO duo’s larger bandpass at the o2 end. It’s the same end of the spectrum as your light pollution. Just my 2 cents

Cheers

Ryan
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 30-11-2020, 07:18 PM
Startrek (Martin)
Registered User

Startrek is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,958
Paul,
Sorry I missed a few details , so re wrote the procedure again and tried on some old data M17 capture in Sydney back in September using my ZWO Duoband filter
Tried 3 different composites plus basic LRGB and come up with some weird and wonderful colours so the Composite module worked for me both with 2 colour blends and normal LRGB

In DSS just make sure in Settings under FITS files you select the correct Bayer Matrix for your camera ( most probably RGGB )
Also in Transformation you select Adaptive Homogeneity Directed ( ADH ) Interpolation
When finish stacking “Do Not Adjust” the RGB levels , leave stacked image as is and save as FITS image 32bit integer then your ready for loading the saved stacked FITS file into Startools
I’ll send you my procedure for DSS as well following this post

Here’s the revised Startools Composite procedure -

Composite Module Startools V1.6
Using OSC Camera and Multi Narrowband OSC Filters eg ZWO Duoband Filter

1/ Open Startools
2/ Select Composite
3/ Change Luminance Colour setting to L + Synthetic L from RGB Mono ( leave all other settings as default )
3/ Create a Synthetic Composite of say “Cyan” by selecting Green tab and load your selected stacked file ( data )
4/ Select Blue tab and load your selected stacked file ( data )
5/ Leave exposure sliders as default
7/ Press Keep , then Linear
8/ Now press “Save” and then this will take you to your DSS folder and nominated stacked data file. The “New Composite” TIFF file is now ready to “Save As” so just press Save.
9/ Press Compose again
10/ Now change the Luminance Colour selector to L+ Synthetic L from RGB , RGB
11/ Now load your selected stacked file ( data ) by selecting Luminance tab, open and load
12/ Now load your selected stacked file ( data ) by selecting Red tab , open and load
13/ Press Green tab and select and load your New Composite ( Green Blue )
14/ Now press Blue tab and select and load your New Composite ( Green Blue )
15/ Press Keep and then Linear
16/ Now process your image as normal ......Bin , AutoDev, Crop, Wipe etc... you will be processing in Synthetic Luminance or Mono until you hit the Colour module
17/ When you hit the Colour module “do not touch” the presets at the top like Constancy , Legacy , SHO , Duoband etc... as these work better for Mono cameras
Use Scientific Style and Artistic Detail Aware Style and play around with your Red , Green and Blue colour bias sliders.Depending on your Composite blend you may have to reduce the Green bias quite a bit due to the Bayer Matrix sampling 2 pixels ( but not always , it depends on the object )
You can try changing the LRGB Method Emulation to either of the 5 presets but I find either Straight Luminance or RGB Ratio CIELab Luminance Retention work well
18/ Additionally you can create a “Magenta Composite” by loading Red and Blue in the procedure above or even Green / Red but I’ve never tried that.You also adjust the exposure times a bit and experiment
19/ You can even just load basic LRGB in Composite without creating a Synthetic colour but in the Composite module you need to change the Luminance Colour to L+ Synthetic L from RGB , RGB then load your stacked file data once into Luminance, Red ,Green and Blue but increase the exposure time in Green to double that of Red and Blue ( 2hrs 120m ( 7200s ) because of the Bayer Matrix in OSC colour cameras green samples 2 pixels
Then press Keep and Linear and process as normal , Bin, AutoDev, Crop, Wipe etc...again you will be processing in Synthetic Luminance Mono until you hit the Colour Module.Again don’t use the presets at the top like Constancy, Legacy, SHO etc..... Experiment by changing your Style from Scientific ( Colour Constancy ) and Artistic, Detail Aware. Also change and try different LRGB Method Emulation.

Hope all the above makes sense
Good Luck !!!

Martin
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 30-11-2020, 07:20 PM
Startrek (Martin)
Registered User

Startrek is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,958
Paul,
Here’s my procedure for Deep Sky Stacker as well which is specifically for Startools

Deep Sky Stacker basic procedures

Open Deep Sky Stacker

All tasks and settings are on the LHS column

“Open pictures files” and load your Raw (Cr) files or Fits files from your PC ( make sure you select the correct file type in the drop down to load into DSS )
Open “dark files” and load your darks
Open “flat files” and load your flats
Open “offset/bias files” and load them

Press Check all ( all files will be ticked or checked in the file list at the bottom ready for registering

Press “Register checked pictures”

Register Settings box opens up
“Actions tab”
Tick box - already registered picture
Tick box - Automatic detection of hot pixels
Tick box - Stack after registering
Select the best 90% to 95% pictures and then “untick this box” so you can check your Stacking Settings later ( I prefer to check later )
Under “Advanced tab”- star detection threshold make sure you tick the box “Reduce the noise by using a Median filter”. Then move the Star detection slider to 10% at first but try other settings like 30% or 50% as there may not be enough stars for DSS to detect and align. In some cases where you have poor data due to focus issues or bad tracking you may have move slider down to 5% or even the lowest setting at 2%.
I recommend between 50 and 150 stars , so increase or decrease the star detection threshold to achieve enough stars

NB: if your stacking FITS files from a dedicated Astro CMOS camera then you will find that Star Detection will be low say 50 to 100 stars when the star detection threshold is set at its highest or 2%
This will be worse when you use a narrowband or light pollution filter with your camera. As long as DSS detects at least 8 or 10 stars then it will register the frames and stack for you

“Recommended Settings button”
DSS give you the recommended setting highlighted in green based on the number and type of files to stack
“Stacking Parameters button”
Intermediate files
Only check FITS files box and Use all available processors box
Leave other check boxes clear or unchecked
Press OK then DSS will start registering files

After files are registered main screen will be blank then press “Stack checked pictures”
Stacking Steps box appears
Recommended Settings button
DSS gives you the recommended setting for stacking highlighted in green ( you can change them if you want to )
“Stacking Parameters”
Result tab - check Standard mode
Light tab - check Kappa Sigma clipping
Alignment tab - check Automatic
Intermediate Files tab - check FITS files
Cosmetic tab - don’t do anything
Output tab - check Create Output file, check Append a number to avoid file overwrite, check Create Output file in the folder of the reference frame
Check Use available processors
Press OK
Now Press OK in Stacking Steps
DSS will now stack files based on selected settings

After stacking, DSS will create an output image ready to save
“Important” - do not use DSS RGB level adjustments , leave stacked image as it is ( untouched linear stacked image )

After stacking, in “Processing section” click “Save picture to file” option
Save as window appears , select where you want it saved in your computer and file name etc
Save as type will be FITS image ( 32bit integer )
Under “Compression” below leave as none
Under “Options” below , bullet check - do not apply adjustments to the saved image

Click save and stacked fits file should be saved to your file location ready for Startools or other processing software

Hope this helps

Cheers
Martin
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 01:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Limpet Controller
Advertisement
NexDome Observatories
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement
Astronomy and Electronics Centre
Advertisement