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Old 17-10-2009, 10:14 PM
picklesrules (Nicholas)
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Camera Advice

Hey Guys
i Got a 300d atm and i already use it for AP
but ive been looking at ccd's do u reckon there is point in selling my DSLR and moving up to these CCD cams?
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Old 18-10-2009, 08:24 AM
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The short answer: No :-)
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Old 18-10-2009, 10:24 AM
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mithrandir (Andrew)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bojan View Post
The short answer: No :-)
A slightly longer answer: Maybe.

A cooled CCD lets you use longer exposures with less noise. But you will then have to have a PC/laptop with more free ports, more power available, maybe a better mount, etc. Don't just cost the CCD.

And then you won't have the DSLR you can use for other things.
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Old 18-10-2009, 12:27 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bojan View Post
The short answer: No :-)
What!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by picklesrules View Post
Hey Guys
i Got a 300d atm and i already use it for AP
but ive been looking at ccd's do u reckon there is point in selling my DSLR and moving up to these CCD cams?
Absolutely! Come over to the dark side.
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Old 18-10-2009, 03:12 PM
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And then you won't have the DSLR you can use for other things.
That's exactly what I meant
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Old 18-10-2009, 04:50 PM
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You just cant beat a cooled CCD for astro imaging... The benefits however depend greatly on your ability to guide for a long duration.. If your setup is only capable of 2~5 minute exposures, you wont get much more from a CCD than you would from a DSLR, however if you can push it out to 20~30 minutes, the DSLR's get left in the dust...

Depending on what CCD you look at getting, you may not require dark frames, even for exposures of up 1hr duration..

There's a million pro's and con's to each option if you go digging and looking for them.. I used my DSLR for astro imaging about 7 times... I then bought a CCD... Wouldn't go back... wouldn't even go to cooled, astro-modified DSLR over a CCD...
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Old 18-10-2009, 05:18 PM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Not to waylay the discussion, but wouldn't 2-5 min exposures with a cooled CCD camera be better than a DSLR uncooled?

Dave
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Old 18-10-2009, 05:36 PM
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yes.. essentially, but the difference is not (in my opinion) substantial enough to warrant the cost of the upgrade... In a 2-5min DSLR exposure, the noise is easily negated by taking darks, and in shorter exposures, the difference in signal (excepting the Ha bandwidth on a non-modded dslr) will be minute... when you push it out to 20 mins or there abouts, the CCD's come into their own.. the extra dynamic range comes into play on brighter objects and stars, the difference in dark current is a lot more noticeable.. I think unless you can feed a good quality CCD 20 minutes of light per sub, then you should probably stick with a DSLR...
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Old 18-10-2009, 06:01 PM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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mmm food for thought then. I'm still to set up my setup with the new guidescope/autoguider and do a proper polar align via drift align/illuminated reticle method. I suspect that once I do all of this (and correctly), 20 min subs shouldn't be an issue. And therefore, like the OP, a CCD imaging setup might be a very good idea for me down the track.

Dave
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Old 18-10-2009, 06:49 PM
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In my opinion, if you're serious about astro photography, you should have a good quality cooled CCD in your big box 'o' gear...

And definitely, provided you do a good drift alignment and don't overload your mount, 20 min subs should be a breeze..
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Old 19-10-2009, 04:54 PM
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Gday Nicholas

Just to muddy the water more I will add my 2c. I use a modded 350D and a ST10 (Thx Alex) and they are both great for different things.

If I am imaging say M104 or Centaurus A and i want high resolution in the dust lanes or other smaller objects like M1 I will use the SBIG on a suitable focal length refractor with filters. BUT if you want a wider field shot with say a focal reducer like the Rosette or the Vela remnant you are going to be there quite a while mosaicing your images to image the whole thing.

My advice would be to match your camera to your scope or your scope to your camera as the case may be (heaps on that in the archives) but try and hang on the DSLR - trust me you will miss it the further you get into the hobby if you let it go now.

Mark
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Old 19-10-2009, 07:13 PM
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Mark makes a great point... Your choice of camera strongly depends on your telescope and your imaging preferences...

That said, your question simply states "CCD or DSLR" Given everything else the same.. Ie, same megapixel resolution, same pixel size, same physical dimensions of the chip (best example of this would be a QHY8 vs Nikon D50 as they both use the exact same Sony CCD sensor) then the cooled astro camera will be a better choice than the DSLR for astro imaging..

Once you start looking at the differences between specific CCD's then the waters get really really muddy...

For galaxy hunting, you may not require a super sized sensor, however you would go for a camera that would suite your telescopes focal length with regard to both pixel size and field of view... Alternatively, if you were looking to shoot wider extended nebulae, then you may want a much larger sensor, at the expense of going to larger pixels..

Essentially, you want a resolution of under 1 arcsec per pixel if you want incredibly sharp images with smooth stars etc.. I image at about 3.5 arcsec per pixel (which is fairly horribly under-sampled) however for what I image, it suffices. When I can afford something with a sensor the same size as the SS Pro, but 16mp giving me 1 arcsec per pixel then I'll do it..

There are SOOOOO many things to consider when looking at buying a camera for astronomical imaging. not only should you consider DSLR/CCD, but consider pixel size, sensor size, colour or monochrome, quantum efficiency, ABG or NABG, what you want to image the most, what optics you plan to use both now and in the future... It can be daunting, and the best answer is this...

Get yourself the following..
Canon 40/50D DSLR.
Starlight Xpress H9
Starlight Xpress M25C
SBIG ST10XME
FLI ML11002M
FLI PL16803

From there, you've pretty much covered all your bases.. Maybe throw in a SBIG STL1001 for super long focal length imaging too

So yea, spend about 100k on cameras and you SHOULD be covered for 90% of possible telescope options
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Old 20-10-2009, 06:48 AM
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Alex: What no back illuminated camera's? Some people are easily pleased

Anyway, I also say keep the 300D. They are still very handy for astrophotography and the amount you would get selling it is not going to contribute that much towards an astroccd anyway.

T.
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Old 20-10-2009, 02:55 PM
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Haha! Nah I'm just trying to cover the majority of bases without looking like a crazy camera hoarder.. Although with that list of cameras I wrote, I spose I do look kind of crazy anyway... :S Not to worry!
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