Buying a 5DMKII and complete setup.

[bloodhound31]

G'day folks,

I am looking at taking out a personal loan to buy a complete setup. Last time I bought a camera (EOS400D), I bought a kit and did not consider all the accessories i would need.

So, while the Australian dollar is up, I thought I would get the lot in one big hit. Reccomendations as to where I might do this, (Australia vs overseas), (online or in a retail outlet) would be greatly appreciated.

Here's what I am looking at.

Canon 5D MKII body
105mm Macro Lens
Wide angle lens(Fast, say around F/2, to F/2.8) with no fisheye effect.
A good STURDY tripod. Manfrotto?
Battery grip
Intervalometer (Timer) unit.
Appropriate Flash unit

Those of you who know me already, know what type of photography I am into, but for those who don't the wide lens is for starry time-lapse and the macro is a new thing for me. I like bugs and other tiny creatures.

Cheers,

Baz.

[AlexN]

For your wide angle lens for the 5D, I'd recommend the Canon 16-35 F/2.8L. Its expensive, but its beautiful.. the 17-40 F/4L is very nice too.. but F/4 vs F/2.8... I'd go the 16-35, although it is expensive..

For the flash, The Canon Speedlite 530EX is a great unit.. it lacks some of the features of the 580EX, however unless you're going to use the remote flash capabilities of the 580EX its not worth the price difference I don't think.

I buy all my photography from discount digital photographics.. http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au

They are grey importers as far as I'm aware.. they do however provide warranty.

[troypiggo (Troy)]

Woohoo! I'm excited for you Baz!

For Aussie-based online stores, in the past I've had a hard time beating the prices from d-d-photographics as Alex mentioned above. Haven't checked/compared them recently, but suspect they'd still be very competitive.

For overseas-based online stores, I've used adorama.com extensively. Their service is excellent and quick. You'll find their prices are very similar to bhphotovideo.com and amazon.com, so look at them too. Very hard to beat their prices anywhere, even when you include postage from US and GST if it's over $1k worth of gear, which you will be.

That's an important point if you're going to buy OS. Whatever the price is for the gear plus postage, if it's over AU$1000 you'll get hit with 10% GST when it hits the shore here. Usually the courier company, eg FedEx, will give you a call to say your gear is here, but you need to pay 10% over the phone before they give it to you, then they pass that on to Customs I think.

In terms of the gear you're thinking of...

The 5D II is a fine body and I'm jealous.

Macro lens - yep, the Sigma 105, the Canon 100, the Tamron 90 I've had experience with and they're all great. Pound for pound I'd probably tip towards the Siggy.

Wide angle lens - as Alex said, the 16-35 L is reputed to be good, but I have no experience with it. The 17-40 L I have and it's a great piece of glass. There's wider lenses in the 10-12mm range at the wide end (Sigma), but haven't used those on a FF body so not sure how well they go, or if vignetting is a problem etc. Personally, I'd go the 17-40 L on the 5D II body. If you were getting a 50D or some other crop sensor, I'd go one of the 10-20 ballpark UWA lenses.

Tripod - if you search around POTN you'll see that the most recommended starter tripod and head combo recommended is the Manfrotto 055PROB Tripod + 488RC2 Ball Head. It's rock solid, not too cheap but reasonable. I'd go that.

Battery grip - I'd save the money and go without. Some like the feel of them, but they're just extra weight and I only see benefits if you and I were professional photogs doing weddings or events.

"Intervalometer"? Assume you mean a timer remote for your time-lapse type stuff? I've got the Aputure one off ebay, it works, it's cheap, it rocks. Don't bother with the genuine Canon one. Alternatively, and I've been doing this lately, is tethering to my laptop and using EOS Utility. But the Aputure timer remote is useful and much more portable so I'd recommend that anyway.

Flash - I'm not sure what to recommend here. I was going to recommend the 430EX. I started with that too, but the extra power and features of the 580EXII drew me and now I have one of those too. It depends on what you think you might be using it for. If it's just for macro, you don't need much power at all and there's even 3rd party flashes like Sunpak PZ430 that's just over $100 and would suffice. But if you want some more power for portrait or group shots, go the 580.

For macro, I'd thoroughly recommend just sitting the flash on camera and getting a Lumiquest Softbox diffuser. That's the setup I used here. Nice soft light, and cheap and easy to set up. Get the Lumiquest cinch strap too to fix it to your flash rather than sticking velcro on it.

You haven't mentioned standard, walkaround lenses. What are you thinking for that? There's a big gap from 35-40mm to 100mm. You'd probably be looking for something in the 24-70, 24-105 range? Don't be afraid to check out the other Sigma lenses. I rate them, as long as you do your research on which models are good and bad.

Do your research in the lenses section of POTN and also check out dpreview.com - wonderful resources.

That's all I can think of for now. Hope it helps. If you have any questions, feel free to PM or call me - I'll talk your ear off about this stuff. I love spending other people's money - wisely of course!

[bloodhound31]

Originally Posted by troypiggo

If you have any questions, feel free to PM or call me - I'll talk your ear off about this stuff. I love spending other people's money - wisely of course!

I'm going to have a look at the suppliers you suggested Troy and Alex. Thank you so much for taking the ime out to do this.

Troy, I have an email drafted to send to Alex's supplier. If you are willing, I will PM it to you. If you could take a look at it for me and let me know before I send it off if I am on the right track that would be great.

I have been short-cutting for so long and buying the cheap alternatives, that I want the best straight up. If I am going to take out a personal loan, I might as well have the best and not have to worry about accessorising later.

As far as everything in-between is concerned, I am keeping my 400D and kit lenses for that. I hardly ever use the 75-300, but I use the 18-55 all the time, for widefield , general snapshots and for macro with a screw on 4 x filter in front.

Baz.

[AlexN]

Baz.. if you don't use the zoom, but use the wider lens all the time.. That says to me that you should definitely have the 16-35 F/2.8L and the 24-105 F/4L.. That way you're covered from the very wide field stuff you love, right the way through to 105mm which is excellent for candid portraiture photography.. As you say, If you're going to get a personal loan, Get yourself set up right the first time... The 5D Mk2 is a great great place to start. If you're looking at a camera this nice, whilst Troy is right, Sigma lenses can be good, if you know what to buy.. I wouldn't risk it. Canon L glass is superb, Send a PM to Humayun and ask him about his L lens collection, and what he thinks of them all.. Guaranteed he'll tell you he loves them all equally and wouldnt swap one for a sigma lense if his life depended on it... I know I wouldnt swap my L glass for anything..

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Baz - d-d photographics is not an official Australia distributor. No official warranty. I'd buy from an Australian based retailer. I can recommend Quality Camera (based in WA). Their page on the 5D Mark II:

http://www.qualitycamera.com.au/cano...ra-p-4337.html

priced at AU $3999 body only it seems. DD is only $300 cheaper, not worth it imho. Note Quality Camera's page on parallel imports:

http://www.qualitycamera.com.au/note...as-p-4314.html

you have been warned!

Canon lenses can be bought anywhere around the world - they have a global warranty, unlike the bodies.

I'd also recommend the 16-35 f2.8 L series wide angle zoom, some have expressed concerns with the optical quality, a review for your enjoyment:

http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff...non_1635_28_5d

Tripod - either a manfrotto or gitzo if you want to lash out. It's a personal choice thing. My personal take is to visit the local camera store and play with the real McCoy and see what you like, and what is comfortable to use/carry, and also, most importantly, sturdy.

Flash - you could go a 430ex or the 580ex II - I'd go the latter. It can wirelessly control another flash for starters (Canon one of course), is very powerful and has weather sealing on the base. I'd still avoid downpours though!

Intervalometer - I know nothing about this sort of thing, so can't say much.

Battery pack - imho - get it. Offers stability to the body, a bit more weight, making the camera feel more robust and makes vertical shooting easier imho. Plus, you can put a few batteries in it - 2 batteries better than one when you're out in the field!

I'd go with the Canon 100mm IS L. L series. Weather sealing, IS might come in handy (I'm a bit dubious on this aspect myself, although I've heard people enthused about Nikon's VR on their 60mm macro unit). It's a good solid length, offering good working distance, and is not too heavy or large. The weather sealing is handy. Macro imaging is nature photography, and, imho, weather sealing is a must when you are out in the field.

For macro, I'd also recommend a set of Kenko tubes, and the Canon offshoe adaptor (#3 from memory). The Lumiquest diffuser that Troy reckons is very good by all accounts, although I haven't personally used it. I am thinking of getting one though lol!

Troy's comment on a lens between the 16-35 and 100 macro is a very good one - I'd recommend one of Sigma's 24-70 f2.8 units. Cheaper than Canon's and just as good as optically imho. For a longer lens, save the biccies for later on and get a Canon 400mm f5.6 L (birding, general natural/wildlife/portraiture shots). As always, I recommend the "nifty fifty" (Canon 50mm f1.8 II). Cheap, but very good optically imho.

As an aside, there's no reason why your 400D *can't* do good macro. LordV (the best macro imager in the world imho) used a 350D and 20D for a long while. He is now using a 5D Mark II and has privately reported to me that the IQ is very nice.

One other thing (and AlexN and Troy will hate me lol!!!) - have you considered a Nikon D700? You haven't invested much in Canon, and you might want to consider alternatives before you get financially committed to Canon. If it was me, it'd be a D700, no brainer imho. The 5D Mark II is very nice, good IQ, but I don't need, or want that many megapixels. 12mp is perfectly fine imho, and I'd rather have those larger pixels, better noise @ high ISO, and a far better dynamic range. I'm personally not impressed with Canon's high ISO performance (at least when compared to the competition). From a personal point of experience, Canon Australia's support has been atrocious to say the least - at least to me.

As I said to a girl @ work today - I'm currently tipping up whether to go with a Mark IV or sell my Canon gear and move to a D3s. I'd lose a fair bit financially, but the lure of what I consider better quality of the Nikon units at high ISO is really appealing to me.

Dave

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Oh, and I'd recommend having a look at my pages on macro tips:

http://www.macro-images.com/understanding.html

and

http://www.macro-images.com/photographing.html

might help you. I've got a good number of years experience with macro imaging - probably more than anyone on these forums to be honest. :-)

Dave

[acropolite (Phil)]

Baz, I bought my 5DII and several of my lenses from Digi-Direct, an on line dealer in Australia.

You can ring and talk to a real person at Digi-Direct, their prices are very competetive when you consider that they offer Genuine Canon Australia product, with Canon Australia warranty, not imported product with overseas warranty. You can also pick up from their Sydney outlet, if you need freight, Digi-Direct are a flat $15 for orders over $200.

As Alex mentioned, you'll pay an arm & leg for a decent wide angle lens for full frame, the 14mm F2.8 rectilinear is one of the best and also one of the most expensive, I opted for the 15mm f2.8 fisheye (full frame not circular) because I like the exaggerated perspective it gives, it's a razor sharp lens at roughly one third the cost of the 14mm rectilinear and the FOV is much greater than the 14mm. Images can still be de-fished using software. Here's a link that will give some comparison.

Regarding Macro, I bought the 100mm F2.8 Canon Macro, If I were buying again I would go with the 90mm Tamron, optically as good as the Canon, I didn't really do my homework properly, not realising that the Tamron can be had for a little over half the cost of the Canon item.
If you have cash to burn then the 100mm F2.8L IS macro from Canon is worth a look.

If you're after a general purpose zoom, the 24-105 F4L IS is a nice lens, it also has limited macro capability, enough to get started with at least. 24mm is quite wide on a FF body, the FOV is equivalent to 15mm on a crop body.

There is also some talk of a new 24-70 F2.8L IS lens, if that one's coming it would be worth holding off, particularly as the new Canon IS technology introduced on the 100mmf2.8L IS macro is supposed to be superior to the existing technology.

While I was typing this a couple of posts popped up, FWIW Digi-Direct's price for a 5DII Genuine Aus stock & warranty is $3793, little more than $100 dearer than the grey import.

[AlexN]

Dave - Good call regarding the Nikon D700... The current Nikon cameras have it all over the canons in my opinion. If I didnt already have a slew of L glass and the 1ds mk3 I'd be looking very closely at the nikons.. For all but the insanely long focal length work, the nikkor lenses are the goods too.. I just found for what I use my camera for, the longer canon L glass that I use is better than the Nikon equivalent..

[bloodhound31]

Guys! I am absolutely (and pleasantly) astonished at the level of information, effort and caring suppory you have offered here. I see there is time spent to help out and I very much appreciate it.

There is a little bit of an overload so I have to go look at all these sites.

When it looks like I may be spending in the vicinity of $8k, then it's best to do one's homework, but it's a big read!

Trying to compare apples for apples though, why can I get variences of $2600 to nearly $6000, for just the camera body across the internet or for that matter, even in Australia? What's the watch-out there?

Baz.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by AlexN

Dave - Good call regarding the Nikon D700... The current Nikon cameras have it all over the canons in my opinion. If I didnt already have a slew of L glass and the 1ds mk3 I'd be looking very closely at the nikons.. For all but the insanely long focal length work, the nikkor lenses are the goods too.. I just found for what I use my camera for, the longer canon L glass that I use is better than the Nikon equivalent..

Just offering a wider opinion ;-) I've heard a few people say that the longer focal lengths (400mm f2.8, 500mm f4, 600mm f4, etc) from Canon are slightly better than the Nikon equivalents optically. And the Canon's are a fair bit cheaper as well, and easier to get (long waits for Nikon units, I've heard of people waiting a few years). I'm in the same boat as you - if it wasn't for 15k worth of gear, I'd have switched to a D3 in a heartbeat.

That said, you can choose sRAW (around 12mp from memory) with the 5D Mark II. I think it works by binning (or something similar). I'm not sure how good the noise compares to the D3's native 12mp FF sensor. I'd like to see some tests on this (I haven't seen any). The 5D Mark II does have HD video, and it's a corker! D700 doesn't have that - for me, it's not an issue, HD video isn't a be all and end all function that I require.

One other thing to consider, and I should have mentioned this in my original post - AF on the 5D Mark II is, imho, sub standard. It's no better than the original 5D unit, and the AF on that was not very good. The D700 has FAR FAR FAR better AF. And the weather sealing is also FAR better too. Canon's done a token weather sealing deal with the 5D Mark II (and all their recent non 1 series released bodies).

Dave

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by bloodhound31

Guys! I am absolutely (and pleasantly) astonished at the level of information, effort and caring suppory you have offered here. I see there is time spent to help out and I very much appreciate it.

There is a little bit of an overload so I have to go look at all these sites.

When it looks like I may be spending in the vicinity of $8k, then it's best to do one's homework, but it's a big read!

Trying to compare apples for apples though, why can I get variences of $2600 to nearly $6000, for just the camera body across the internet or for that matter, even in Australia? What's the watch-out there?

Baz.

You're welcome. I'm not sure what you mean by the price variations. Are you saying that you're seeing 5D Mark II prices @ $2600? If so, I suspect that they're US grey market, dodgy dealers. Links please so I can check them out.

If you want to have a gander, PM me your number and I'll happily give you a buzz and talk 'shop' lol. I'm happy to proof read any EMail draft that you have as well.

Dave

[bloodhound31]

Here's one.

http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-canon-e...ce-133998.html

EDIT: I see the high price range includes lenses. Still, it goes from $2700 to $4200 for body only.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

ahhh - look at the link:

http://www.d-d-electronics.com.sg/pr...etCurrencyId=1

.sg - Singapore. You'll have to pay import duty, GST, no Australian warranty. Avoid imho. And that's not taking into account my morals - I refuse to buy anything from Singapore on the basis of their Draconian government, and lack of respect for Human Rights.

Dave

[Octane (Humayun)]

My 5D Mark II hasn't skipped a beat as far as focusing goes. I do weddings. That should say something.

Baz, take it from someone who actually owns the equipment. You will read all sorts of reviews relating to issues with black dots, banding, banding in sRAW1 and sRAW2 modes, and, this and that. Hocus pocus. The camera works, and, it delivers the goods.

Bear in mind that should you decide to turn it to the heavens, the Nikon's are useless for astrophotography. Thank you very much, but, I prefer my RAW files not be run through a softening median pass filter prior to be being written to the Compact Flash card.

Regards,
Humayun

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

2nd link:

http://www.einfotech.com.au/shop/pro...oducts_id=6240

read the fine print at the bottom of the page:

Parallel Imported

Warranty: Warranty One Year

Delivery within 2-4 business days

Product may ship from our Overseas warehouse.

3rd link:

http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/about/contact.asp

Probably ships from overseas, no Australian warranty -

Australian local warranty service and technical support agents

ATECH Distribution Pty Ltd

3rd link:

http://www.topbuy.com.au/tbcart/pc/C...-Eng-p6943.htm

The discount comes from direct importing. The only difference will be packaging such as box printing language & user manual (most booklets are multi-lingual anyway). Occasionally some models are marked with a different model in different countries this is similar to Toyota Echo are known as Yaris in the USA. The hardware is exactly the same only cosmetic changes with the model markings.

http://www.quikshop.com.au/canon-mar...t-p-42318.html

Look at the URL - it says it all - "imported stock".

hehehe, you have to be *really* careful.

Dave

[bloodhound31]

Here's the head I am considering by Manfrotto, http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=244282&is=REG

I just don't know about the legs. I am after STABILITY.
Here's the page of legs. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...656+4291348219

Whilst I hike long distance with all this gear on my back up mountainous terrain, I need something that is light but still sturdy.

Baz.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Octane

My 5D Mark II hasn't skipped a beat as far as focusing goes. I do weddings. That should say something.

Regards,
Humayun

Respectfully H, the AF on the 5D series cameras is inferior to Canon's other consumer offerings (let alone the 1 series units). I'm being critical of Canon, because, despite 3 and a half years between the original 5D and the 5D Mark II, Canon couldn't deliver better AF. For most non serious action, it'll be fine. I still have horror memories of my aging D60 (not the Nikon) - horrid AF. So bad that my 20 year + EOS 630 film camera had better AF imho.

Maybe I notice AF a bit more since I'm used to a 1 series body (been using one since 1999).

Dave

edit: this is what dpreview.com says about the AF:

AI Servo (continuous AF) not as good as EOS-1 series or Nikon D700

taken from:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/cano...kii/page40.asp

[bloodhound31]

Originally Posted by dpastern

ahhh - look at the link:

http://www.d-d-electronics.com.sg/pr...etCurrencyId=1

.sg - Singapore. You'll have to pay import duty, GST, no Australian warranty. Avoid imho. And that's not taking into account my morals - I refuse to buy anything from Singapore on the basis of their Draconian government, and lack of respect for Human Rights.

Dave

Originally Posted by dpastern

2nd link:

http://www.einfotech.com.au/shop/pro...oducts_id=6240

read the fine print at the bottom of the page:



3rd link:

http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/about/contact.asp

Probably ships from overseas, no Australian warranty -



3rd link:

http://www.topbuy.com.au/tbcart/pc/C...-Eng-p6943.htm



http://www.quikshop.com.au/canon-mar...t-p-42318.html

Look at the URL - it says it all - "imported stock".

hehehe, you have to be *really* careful.

Dave

Ah, thanks again. Gee it would be really easy to get hurt with this wouldn't it?

[Octane (Humayun)]

Dave, I don't own a 1D/1Ds series Canon.

I actually own the lesser camera (although in the words of the president of Canon Japan, the 5D Mark II is their marquee camera). The 1D Mark IIn is now old technology. That may have had crap focusing. Mine doesn't skip a beat. You can be as critical as you like, the proof is on my hard drive, in print, and in wedding albums.

Regards,
Humayun