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Old 12-10-2009, 04:04 PM
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erick (Eric)
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Newtonian reflector - GEM contortions

I have an 8" newtonian reflector on an EQ5. To avoid lying on my back on the ground or doing interesting contortions to look through the eyepiece or finderscope as the scope is swung around targets across the sky, I loosen the rings off and rotate the OTA - usually pulling the tripod up onto two legs stuffing the alignment, or putting the scope out of balance as the felt pads seem to encourage the OTA to slide up and down but not around, or doing who knows what to the collimation as I push and shove it.

Any clever tips from experience out there?

I've worked out that there is a reasonable range of movement in which the eyepiece is reasonably accessible (even when the focusser is "upside down"). Perhaps only go for observing targets within that range of movement?

Suggestions such as "Get a refractor" or "Get an SCT" shall be politely ignored
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:13 PM
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sheeny (Al)
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Back in the dark ages (before so much light pollution - 1980's) when I had a newt, I had the two tube clamps lined with felt and another ring clamped (bolted) around the OTA which rested against the bottom clamp. I also had the clamps adjusted so one would allow the tube to rotate without loosening (the bottom one), while the other one was tighter and locked the OTA when the toggle was clamped.

The setup meant the tube was balanced length ways when the OTA ring was against the bottom clamp, and this stopped the OTA moving lengthways (I didn't have a problem with it coming up) and I only ever loosened the top clamp toggle to rotate the tube.

Clear as mud?

Al.

Last edited by sheeny; 12-10-2009 at 04:15 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:20 PM
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Clear as mud?
Errr Actually very clear! I can come up with something like that. Thanks! It also needs a few handles to grab onto to perform the rotation.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:51 PM
TheDecepticon
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I used one of my wife's old Tupperware pavlova dishes that had quite a lip at the edge. I cut the dish before the top and then cut it to fit around my scope and clamped it in place after balancing the tube. This way it can't slip, even if the rings are open.
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2009, 05:01 PM
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erick (Eric)
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Another good idea - better than my pencil line!

A theme is emerging - one cannot avoid rotating the OTA! Drat!
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:06 PM
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In the same vein, Bob Royce's web site has plans for a rotating head (ie the scope's, not yours):

http://www.rfroyce.com/10f6tel/

Looks like you cannot avoid it
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2009, 05:47 PM
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Starkler (Geoff)
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Yep newts on gems arent a good idea for visual.

A rotating uta brings with it the problem of aligning the optical axis perfectly with the mechanical axis to maintain collimation. In practice difficult to achieve.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:58 PM
adman (Adam)
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I love the tupperware idea.....but does your wife know? That suff is expensive! Maybe more than the scope you are saving....!
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2009, 10:02 PM
adman (Adam)
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Erick - how do you go with your 8" newt on the EQ5. I am considering going the same way myself. In light of:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkler View Post
Yep newts on gems arent a good idea for visual.
what has been your experience with that setup?

Adam
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:31 PM
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peter_4059 (Peter)
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you need a set of these:

http://www.parallaxinstruments.com/ring.htm
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  #11  
Old 12-10-2009, 11:54 PM
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Adam, I'll happily join in the hijacking of my thread

I have had two observing sessions with the 8" reflector on the EQ5. They have convinced me that I'm preferably a dob user for observation!

What's the story? Well I saw a member offering an 8" OTA with rings - new, but for a nice discount price. I couldn't resist that. Then I got this thought in my mind that it was about time I learnt about using an equatorial mount. My experience to date was of a dob-mounted reflector and a fork-mounted SCT on a wedge. I knew there was more to life than those options.

I picked up (literally - on a trip to Sydney) a secondhand EQ5 with dual motor drives and put the lot together.

First thing I realised was that the OTA was designed for imaging - I couldn't pull focus with my eyepieces No problem, a 35mm extension tube has fixed that. But that discovery has also given me the idea of sticking my DSLR into the focusser (I have T-ring and Hotech's SCA T-ring adapter) and snapping a few images of bright star clusters - perhaps this coming weekend. I found I needed an extension on the counterweight bar - a 35mm Panoptic sure adds some weight to the OTA!

All set up and I started using. So far I have only performed a relatively rough polar alignment - mainly pointing it towards south is the issue. A compass on the ground a little distance from the scope is fairly rough. Being level and setting the altitude is easier. It does have a polar scope but getting down trying to use one of those, particularly for the SCP with its almost non-existent bright stars, seems like the height of machochism to me . This coming weekend, I will (promise) learn the basics of drift aligning.

What's good?

Motors and gears! Tracking, tracking and tracking! So nice when you have a 5mm eyepiece in place and Jupiter in the FOV, and it pretty well sits there while the RA motor does its job. A little tweak of the DEC control buttons from time to time (When I get rich, I will have to retrofit Servocat to my coming SDM.) I also found that, with the 8", the eyepiece height was fairly convenient - I could use my observing chair much of the time without getting tangled up with the mount and tripod. Of course, the newtonian has its benefits - cheap, robust, reasonable collimation is a snap to do.

What's not so good?

Now I know why people are always moving towards piers and big solid mounts. The 8" reflector OTA on the EQ5 wobbles on touch and with even a light breeze. I don't think there is much more I can do to improve the current setup. The tripod legs are almost fully closed. The dovetail rail is held as firmly as I can make it. There are just too many points in the EQ5 mount where it comes down to a small (and therefore open to flexure) cross-section of support as distinct from the big broad rigidity that can be obtained in a solid dob or fork-mounted on wedge design. Second problem is the rotation of the OTA as it is pointed around the sky. There is a limit to easily looking into the eyepiece, and lying on your back on a chair under the scope looking straight up into the eyepiece certainly exceeds my limit Also, compared with a dob, the risk of an eyepiece falling out of the focusser as the OTA is moved around is greater. As is the subject of this thread, finding a quick way to rotate the OTA back to an acceptable orientation will make life much easier. Pointing the scope is a challenge. With a dob, my brain easily copes with left/right and up/down. A scope on an EQ mount does not go left/right nor up/down! I was getting better after a few hours but sometimes it would just not go where I wanted it to. I was a little frustrated getting it onto 47 Tuc, for example, so I guess it is an issue near the SCP. Actually it was probably no worse than a dob near the "dob hole". Also, finding those damn lock levers once I had the target in the finderscope was annoying - as you move the scope to the target, those lock levers always go and hide on the opposite side of the scope to where your brain last remembers them to be! I found it useful to have an assistant to find and lock them while I held the OTA on target. Now that doesn't seem right! I also gather that if you end up in position with the counterweight bar doing its best to point to the zenith, you forgot to do a flip somewhere along the line!

So there are my thoughts. I'll spend more time with it and will try some photography so I can at least say that I've tried. But I have a feeling that an EQ and Eric weren't meant for each other.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:56 PM
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erick (Eric)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_4059 View Post
US$450! Gulp! Cost more that the whole OTA! But that is exactly what I want! Thanks - more ideas for a home-built solution.


EDIT: Thanks big time. I've just googled "rotating rings for telescope" and I have a swag of ideas to consider!

Last edited by erick; 13-10-2009 at 12:12 AM.
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  #13  
Old 13-10-2009, 12:23 AM
Andrew C
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polar aligning

Erick,

For polar aligning, have you tried mounting a 5mW laser on a suitable spot on the OTA, aligning the beam to the centre of the eyepiece field, then using the beam with the help of a pair of binocculars to point the scope to the vicinity of the SCP? Once you are near it the star pattern close to the SCP (within a few arc min) is quite recognisable in the eyepiece after a few tries. Seems to work OK from my experience, with no stooping and straining required.

Andrew
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Old 13-10-2009, 07:36 AM
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peter_4059 (Peter)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erick View Post
US$450! Gulp! Cost more that the whole OTA! But that is exactly what I want! Thanks - more ideas for a home-built solution.


EDIT: Thanks big time. I've just googled "rotating rings for telescope" and I have a swag of ideas to consider!

Check out the weight first if you decide to go for metal rotating rings. I've seen these ones on a 10" newt and they need quite a few counterweights to balance things up.
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Old 13-10-2009, 07:43 AM
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sheeny (Al)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erick View Post
All set up and I started using. So far I have only performed a relatively rough polar alignment - mainly pointing it towards south is the issue. A compass on the ground a little distance from the scope is fairly rough. Being level and setting the altitude is easier. It does have a polar scope but getting down trying to use one of those, particularly for the SCP with its almost non-existent bright stars, seems like the height of machochism to me . This coming weekend, I will (promise) learn the basics of drift aligning.
I just recently bought my EQ6 and it came with a polar scope with a reticle for both north and south hemispheres. First one I have ever owned. I decided to try it when I first set the EQ6 up in the obs... forget it! There are easier ways.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ht=polar+align

Quote:
Originally Posted by erick View Post

What's good?

Motors and gears! Tracking, tracking and tracking! So nice when you have a 5mm eyepiece in place and Jupiter in the FOV, and it pretty well sits there while the RA motor does its job. A little tweak of the DEC control buttons from time to time

Pointing the scope is a challenge. With a dob, my brain easily copes with left/right and up/down. A scope on an EQ mount does not go left/right nor up/down! I was getting better after a few hours but sometimes it would just not go where I wanted it to. I was a little frustrated getting it onto 47 Tuc, for example, so I guess it is an issue near the SCP. Actually it was probably no worse than a dob near the "dob hole".
Yep. You'll get used to it. Think Ra/Dec young padiwan...
Quote:
Originally Posted by erick View Post
Also, finding those damn lock levers once I had the target in the finderscope was annoying - as you move the scope to the target, those lock levers always go and hide on the opposite side of the scope to where your brain last remembers them to be! I found it useful to have an assistant to find and lock them while I held the OTA on target. Now that doesn't seem right!
Does your mount have GOTO or just drive motors? If you have GOTO, you shouldn't be messing with the clutches. Once you are aligned, then just drive it where you want it to point and leave the clutches engaged. If you just have drive motors then I can understand what you're doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erick View Post
I also gather that if you end up in position with the counterweight bar doing its best to point to the zenith, you forgot to do a flip somewhere along the line!
Yep! BTW that line would be the meridian...
Quote:
Originally Posted by erick View Post

So there are my thoughts. I'll spend more time with it and will try some photography so I can at least say that I've tried. But I have a feeling that an EQ and Eric weren't meant for each other.
Give it a chance Eric!

Al.
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Old 13-10-2009, 09:52 AM
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erick (Eric)
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Lots of ideas:-

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchi...l/fpart/2/vc/1
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  #17  
Old 13-10-2009, 10:21 AM
adman (Adam)
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Quote:
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Adam, I'll happily join in the hijacking of my thread
Sorry about that erick! Here's a little more hijacking for you....

Quote:
Originally Posted by erick View Post
So far I have only performed a relatively rough polar alignment - mainly pointing it towards south is the issue. A compass on the ground a little distance from the scope is fairly rough.
One trick I came across for getting a good north/south alignment is to start during the middle of the day. Hang a piece of string with a plumb bob (or anything else that you know to be exactly vertical). Then go onto google and get a chart of the time for solar noon at your location - there are a few websites around that let you calculate it from your lat/long. Then at exactly the time of solar noon, the shadow from your piece of string will be aligned true north/south, so mark it out. Then put the south leg of your tripod on the mark, and use the plumb bob again - but this time hang it from the centre hole of your tripod and make sure this lines up with your north/south line.

This works really well for at home - but if you go somewhere else to observe you will have to make sure you get there early enough, or use another method. I have always found the compass too hard to get true south accurately by the time you factor in all the potential sources of error - both within the compass and also those involved in reading from it.

Hope this helps
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Old 14-10-2009, 04:37 PM
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erick (Eric)
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OK, I have plans! I'm building up some rings, adding a bracing bar across the top of the existing rings, adding bicycle quick releases to the existing rings. I'll let you know how it all goes.
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Old 14-10-2009, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDecepticon View Post
I used one of my wife's old Tupperware pavlova dishes that had quite a lip at the edge. I cut the dish before the top and then cut it to fit around my scope and clamped it in place after balancing the tube. This way it can't slip, even if the rings are open.
I'm effectively doing this, but with a cheap planter pot I have picked up from Bunnings.
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