Alcohol

[blink138 (Pat)]

Ron Burgundy: I love scotch. Scotchy, scotch, scotch. Here it goes down, down into my belly.

• Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy

i love scotch........ says it all really!
pat

[Barrykgerdes]

Originally Posted by bobson

Advertising works, period. Who ever doesn't know this obviously is affected by alcohol consumption or really have rocks in their heads.

Do we really need Liquorland to be one of the Melbourne Tennis Open sponsors?
Here in WA I just got junk mail from Bottlemart with big front page saying:

"THE LONG WEEKEND IS COMING!"

Yes advertising works but alcohol and cigarette ads on TV, Billboards etc only have a monor role on taking up the habits. These ads are mainly to keep the users interested.

The real "take up" ads are the ones you see in the movies and TV programs where the actors smoke and drink. People tend to identify themselves with the actors and copy their habits.

When you see a TV ad for alcohol do you personally go out and get some or do you ignore it like most of us do. If you ignore it and say ban the ads you are then saying that you can think for yourself but others should not be allowed to think for themselves.

I personally don't like the ads but the sponsers pay for the programs I like to watch even if I do mentally turn the ads off.

Barry

[Kunama]

I think this is a very complex issue, far more than just the advertising aspect but something has to be done to change the current culture of drinking to excess. Maybe banning advertising is a drastic step, perhaps more control over the type of advertising might be better.

I saw countless lives ruined by alcohol during my 21 years in the AFP with the very obvious common theme being 'people trying to fit in'. The problem was just as evident in affluent households as it was in the 'battler' homes.

Peer pressure is an enormous burden, not just with young people but in most age groups and occupations, even in the Police Force there was an expectation to have a drink or ten with your mates. In the building industry it is the same thing, with some of the people I worked with consuming at least a dozen cans a day after work.

Most people are naturally shy in groups and use alcoholic drinks to overcome their shyness. Unfortunately the youth today cannot be told by their elders, especially when the elders haven't been the greatest role models. (Apples don't fall far from the tree)

Will a ban on advertising reduce the chance of a young person taking up drinking? I think it will certainly help but I think the real solution is for parents to get their kids interested in something else.

These days, with both parents working in most households out of a perceived need, the kids are really left to grow up on their own and to do that they have fit in with the crowd.

I decided long ago to spend time with my kids, we have sailed, swum, jet-skied, kayaked and snow skied as a family for 25 years. My son and I have a beer or two every now and then, my daughter and I share a red wine but neither has ever come home drunk nor have they ever seen me drunk.

[pmrid (Peter)]

There is a singular lack of enthusiasm for doing anything that offends/disturbs the interest of major lobby interests. Those interests extend well beyond the companies involved in the production/manufacture of these goods and products. They include the distribution/marketing chain, the media and last but by no means least governments hooked on the steady feed of revenue from the sale of these products - tobacco, alcohol, gambling, you name it.

Consider the power that companies such as Woolworths and Wesfarmers and their various affiliates and subsidiaries have, for example. Between them they control sales of 80% of all alcohol in Australia. Woolworths is the largest owner of Poker Machines in the country.

Consider also the power that mass media has in these areas. Tobacco advertising has gone from sport but been replaced by - wait for it - online gambling. An almost equally insidious plague on us all. And it happened with virtually no debate or discussion. That is the power of the media and the inertia of governments.

That is why change in these areas is glacial and always well behind the need. As long as governments derive significant revenues from the indirect taxes they can maintain the fiction that they are not raising the income tax rates while maintaining profligate spending.

You can hope for change but don't bet on it happening in our lifetimes.

Peter

[Irish stargazer (John)]

Originally Posted by Kunama

I think this is a very complex issue, far more than just the advertising aspect but something has to be done to change the current culture of drinking to excess. Maybe banning advertising is a drastic step, perhaps more control over the type of advertising might be better.

I saw countless lives ruined by alcohol during my 21 years in the AFP with the very obvious common theme being 'people trying to fit in'. The problem was just as evident in affluent households as it was in the 'battler' homes.

Peer pressure is an enormous burden, not just with young people but in most age groups and occupations, even in the Police Force there was an expectation to have a drink or ten with your mates. In the building industry it is the same thing, with some of the people I worked with consuming at least a dozen cans a day after work.

Most people are naturally shy in groups and use alcoholic drinks to overcome their shyness. Unfortunately the youth today cannot be told by their elders, especially when the elders haven't been the greatest role models. (Apples don't fall far from the tree)

Will a ban on advertising reduce the chance of a young person taking up drinking? I think it will certainly help but I think the real solution is for parents to get their kids interested in something else.

These days, with both parents working in most households out of a perceived need, the kids are really left to grow up on their own and to do that they have fit in with the crowd.

I decided long ago to spend time with my kids, we have sailed, swum, jet-skied, kayaked and snow skied as a family for 25 years. My son and I have a beer or two every now and then, my daughter and I share a red wine but neither has ever come home drunk nor have they ever seen me drunk.

Good discussion. Anything in moderation is fine. We just have to use control. State control doesn't really help (apart from taxing the hell out of it).
My wife is a smoker (four a day or so). The only thing repackaging has done is to confuse her as to what brand she is actually buying. She sees a lot of imports coming in now of lower quality (probably due to the lack of branding).

[FlashDrive (Poppy)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

As long as governments derive significant revenues from the indirect taxes

Peter

There in lies the stupidity of current and former Governments ...who.... in their so called policies on revenue raising from addictive habits ......don't stop to think that it's costing them dearly in this country's Health System....by pouring Billion's of Dollars every year into the States Health Coffers.

Flash ..!!

[bobson (Bob)]

Alcohol is a complex issue and as such can not be resolved with just one measure such as banning advertisements. But its a step in right direction. At least this way government will show its not endorsing it.

Education about it is very important and probably most important. We can never stop people from buying it and abusing it. Some people will always drink too much just as some people will smoke regardless of packaging.

We wouldn't be free society if we don't have freedom of choice even if its knowingly harming yourself.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

I think you have hit the nail on the head Bob .
Education is the key , you just ask a 9-10 year old today about smoking , 90% will say NO WAY ! that kills you ! .
And the anti smoking education has been going , what ? 10- 15 years , great to see it is working , but as Pmrid said , it will be a generation or 2 before any head way is made on this alcholol problem of today .
Just looking at the news before Christmas on the end of year schoolies 3 + dead , sad , worse than my generation ever was .
Brian.

Originally Posted by bobson

Alcohol is a complex issue and as such can not be resolved with just one measure such as banning advertisements. But its a step in right direction. At least this way government will show its not endorsing it.

Education about it is very important and probably most important. We can never stop people from buying it and abusing it. Some people will always drink too much just as some people will smoke regardless of packaging.

We wouldn't be free society if we don't have freedom of choice even if its knowingly harming yourself.

[Poita (Peter)]

Looking around my town I think obesity is going to be a far bigger problem.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

Woolworths is the largest owner of Poker Machines in the country.Peter

How do you figure that out ?

Cheers,
John B

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

How do you figure that out ?

Cheers,
John B

It's true they own the most pokies with Coles close behind


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...501-1xx4r.html

[CJ (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Poita

Looking around my town I think obesity is going to be a far bigger problem.

Obesity is a problem but I suspect alcohol impacts far more unrelated people in the trail of carnage it leaves. Alcohol is treated far too lightly.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

How do you figure that out ?

Cheers,
John B

Try a quick Google or look at www.pokieswatch.org or www.ethical.org.au . It's not hard to find.
Peter

[JB80 (Jarrod)]

I don't think there is an option I'd want to vote for if I'm honest. It's complicated.

Whatever problems are there or are perceived has more to do with our culture than availablility, restrictions or prohibition. Prohibition has never worked.
In Belgium/France alcohol is available in supermarkets, night shops(kind of like a deli) and even from vending machines in train stations and can be purchased any time of day/night plus it's actually affordable. Same for tabacco.
My Dad was over the moon to find a pouch of baccy was only 4 Euro. Go figure.

Now I'm not saying there is no alcohol problem over here infact I have witnessed plenty of problems especially living in the centre of Brussels but there is certainly no extreme media fuss made about it and I haven't lost one acquaintance to drinking or drinking related behaviour unlike at home. They don't seem to have the same binge mentality as the Aussies or Brits(who are a good example of why earlier closing is useless). I can't put my finger on the difference really but it is there.

I do like the cheap beer and fact I can get it in the weekly shop, so for selfish reasons I'd like to see the Aussie government drop the tax and open up the market, why should I suffer for some senseless teens behaving the way I used to 10 years back, right?

Still this doesn't address whatever concerns one may have but it'd keep me happy.

[CJ (Chris)]

Originally Posted by CJ

Obesity is a problem but I suspect alcohol impacts far more unrelated people in the trail of carnage it leaves. Alcohol is treated far too lightly.

"Unrelated" as in non family members.

[Barrykgerdes]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

How do you figure that out ?

Cheers,
John B

Pokie machine licences are directly related to liquor licences. Between them Coles and Woolworths own 80% of the liquor licences. QED

Barry

[marki]

Originally Posted by FlashDrive

What a ' tragic ' statement to make .....!!
Tomorrow ...your wife / daughter / son / best mate / Mother / Father ...may become a victim to such a ' philosophy ' ...let's see how you handle that ...?????????

Flash ..!!

Too late, I have lost too many to alcohol + stupidity. Are you aware of the concept of sarcasm .

Mark

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

Pokie machine licences are directly related to liquor licences.

Barry

Totally wrong.

The only connection is that you need to have one of a couple of different types of Liquor License before you can apply for Gaming Machine Licenses. There are a whole different set of factors which I dont need to go into here which in fact determines how many Electronic Gaming Machines (EGM's) you can have on the floor under the Legislation.

To say that Woolworths and Coles own the majority of gaming machines in Australia is not getting things in perspective. There are about 197,000 EGM's in Australia, 97,000 of which are in NSW. Of the 97,000 EGM's in NSW, NSW Clubs account for over 70% of those machines. So NSW Clubs account for about 33% of EGM's Australia wide.

Woolworths through its countless number of hotels owns about 12,000 EGM's Australia wide (6% nationally) Wesfamers through its hotel ownership owns about 3,000 EGM's (1.5% nationally). Keep in mind that the maximum number of machines any hotel can have is 30 and many are limited to somewhere between 15 and 30. Many hotels in fact have a lot less than 15. So what this really amounts to is a whole raft of indiviual shareholders just like me (yeah I own a few '000 Woollies Shares) ultimately owning 1 button on 1 poker machine in some outback pub. How much do you think I make out of Woolies EGM revenue each year?

Crown Casino has over 2500 EGM's on the floor of the Melbourne Casino. I would be a lot more concerned about that type of ownership than Woollies owning 12,000 EGM's across hundreds of pubs Australia wide and Wesfarmers owning 3000.

Cheers,
John B

[Barrykgerdes]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Totally wrong.

The only connection is that you need to have one of a couple of different types of Liquor License before you can apply for Gaming Machine Licenses. There are a whole different set of factors which I dont need to go into here which in fact determines how many Electronic Gaming Machines (EGM's) you can have on the floor under the Legislation.

To say that Woolworths and Coles own the majority of gaming machines in Australia is not getting things in perspective. There are about 197,000 EGM's in Australia, 97,000 of which are in NSW. Of the 97,000 EGM's in NSW, NSW Clubs account for over 70% of those machines. So NSW Clubs account for about 33% of EGM's Australia wide.

Woolworths through its countless number of hotels owns about 12,000 EGM's Australia wide (6% nationally) Wesfamers through its hotel ownership owns about 3,000 EGM's (1.5% nationally). Keep in mind that the maximum number of machines any hotel can have is 30 and many are limited to somewhere between 15 and 30. Many hotels in fact have a lot less than 15. So what this really amounts to is a whole raft of indiviual shareholders just like me (yeah I own a few '000 Woollies Shares) ultimately owning 1 button on 1 poker machine in some outback pub. How much do you think I make out of Woolies EGM revenue each year?

Crown Casino has over 2500 EGM's on the floor of the Melbourne Casino. I would be a lot more concerned about that type of ownership than Woollies owning 12,000 EGM's across hundreds of pubs Australia wide and Wesfarmers owning 3000.

Cheers,
John B

So!
I don't think we really want an buy into an argument. The statement said that Woolworths own the largest number of Pokies not the majority and that I would expect to true considering the number of licences they hold.

Barry

[Jen]

Well I love my UDL cans
And I have never seen an ad about them anywhere so ads didn't get my attention