Alcohol

[TrevorW]

I for one being an ex smoker (who still enjoys a cigar now and then) who gave up primarily for wealth reasons are annoyed by the hypocritical nature of the Govt who ban advertising, alter packaging etc for smoking but continue to allow unchecked alcohol advertising and consumption.

Once upon a time it was cool to smoke, advertising portrayed the practice as manly, chic etc. The tobacco industry supported sports, in every TV show or movie someone if not the majority of people smoked.

This was of course a joke really when sci-fi series etc showed people on spaceships or the moon smoking.

My point is are not the current generation cycling down the same path when it comes to alcohol. Shouldn't the Govt adopt the same stance towards alcohol as it does towards cigarettes.

Are not a lot of the current anti-social problems with the youth of this country fuelled by alcohol.

I enjoy a drink like most but can see that is some ways we are replacing one evil with another.

Your thoughts

[marki]

Australia not enough of a nanny state for you already Trevor?

Mark

[blink138 (Pat)]

if they have banned cigarette advertising...... i think they will (should?) ban alcohol advertising too, eventually.
cant wait to see if you have to, too move outside of the licensed premises to drink your beer though ha ha!
pat

[Pi]

No, beer ads are the only entertaining ones! Ban car ads, they are truly terrible.

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Perhaps there is a difference in the health risks.
They say that "every cigarette is doing you harm" (and those around you).
But I have never heard that every (alcoholic) drink is doing you harm.
Some are even promoted as being of a benefit, in moderation.

But I see where you are coming from.
... and there are more anti-social problems associated with alcohol abuse.

[TrevorW]

Originally Posted by marki

Australia not enough of a nanny state for you already Trevor?

Mark

Nah but you know where I'm coming from

[04Stefan07 (Stefan)]

Down to more control but also comes down to people that need to control themselves!

I am more than happy to have a glass of Orzata over alcohol any day! For those who aren't Italian and don't know what Orzata is, it's the best drink on this planet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgeat_syrup

[Astroman (Andrew Wall)]

Of course Alcohol Advertising should be banned (on Television), along with those damn life insurance adverts. Too much Advertising getting in the way of more important educational programming such as Star Trek and Meteorite Men

Of course I am all for Alcohol in moderation. Including the advertising of it in papers, magazines, books.....
.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

I've never smoked, never been tanked (I'll enjoy one beer & that's it), never been on a trip. Plenty of chances but it never appealed to me to cause myself stupid harm even though all my mates did. I grew up in inner Sydney, Surry Hills & Redfern, with every sin available to me too. Today I still can't understand why anyone does. But that's me.

Controlling/banning advertising of grog & fags isn't going to cut it when the predominant cultural thinking is to get tanked, smoke & get high. Change the culture & you'll achieve a better social out come. But as long as there's $$$ to be made too from people, there'll also be no will from "government" to change very much at all - hey, they take a cut from it too! Illicit drugs, acute lead poisoning is the only solution for these peddlers of death.

[Steffen]

Yes, ban TV advertising, all of it!

I too enjoy alcoholic drinks, not so much for the alcohol but for medicinal reasons (red wine) or pure delectation (single malt). I do not enjoy getting or being drunk.

Cheers
Steffen.

[Darth Wader (Wade)]

I'd like to see a bit more emphasis on closing pubs/clubs earlier. Why do people still feel the need to be drinking at three in the morning?

[Larryp (Laurie)]

I don't believe in banning any advertising, really. I used to smoke in my teens and twenties, but advertising didn't influence me-peer pressure did!
I believe if a product is legal, then advertising should be allowed. Plenty of things can kill you, but are still advertised.
The advertisements that DO worry me are all the online gambling ads -think we may have a huge gambling problem with young people in coming years.

[TrevorW]

Beer advertising today is like cigarette advertising of the past, there is nothing cool about drinking more than you can handle to stay in control. I'll admit in the past I have been there, but are not proud of it.

The point is two fold in that smoking has been singled out as a sociably unacceptable habit with great emphasis on health issues while alcohol awareness campaigns seem to focus upon other issues.

A lot has been done to educate against and control smoking habits while little has been done when in comes to alcohol

Consequences of Alcohol Abuse or Dependence System/category Early consequences Late consequences
Liver disease Elevated liver enzyme levels Fatty liver, alcoholic hepatitis, cirrhosis Pancreatic disease Acute pancreatitis, chronic pancreatitis Cardiovascular disease Hypertension
Cardiomyopathy, arrhythmias, stroke Gastrointestinal problems
Gastritis, gastroesophageal reflux disease, diarrhoea, peptic ulcer disease
Esophageal varices, Mallory-Weiss tears Neurologic disorders
Headaches, blackouts, peripheral neuropathy Alcohol withdrawal syndrome, seizures, Wernicke's encephalopathy, dementia, cerebral atrophy, peripheral neuropathy, cognitive deficits, impaired motor functioning, Reproductive system disorders, Fetal alcohol effects, fetal alcohol syndrome, Sexual dysfunction, amenorrhea, anovulation, early menopause, spontaneous abortion, Cancers, Neoplasm of the liver, neoplasm of the head and neck, neoplasm of the pancreas, neoplasm of the esophagus, Psychiatric comorbidities, Depression, anxiety, Affective disorders, anxiety disorders, antisocial personality.

Legal problems
Traffic violations, driving while intoxicated, public intoxication
Motor vehicle accidents, violent offences, fires
Employment problems
Tardiness, sick days, inability to concentrate, decreased competence
Accidents, injury, job loss, chronic unemployment
Family problems
Family conflict, erratic child discipline, neglect of responsibilities, social isolation, divorce, spouse abuse, child abuse or neglect, loss of child custody.
Effects on children
Over responsibility, acting out, withdrawal, inability to concentrate, school problems, social isolation, Learning disorders, behaviour problems, emotional disturbance

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Astroman

Of course Alcohol Advertising should be banned (on Television), along with those damn life insurance adverts. Too much Advertising getting in the way of more important educational programming such as Star Trek and Meteorite Men

And all those funeral plan ads that run non-stop during the day.

Of course I am all for Alcohol in moderation. Including the advertising of it in papers, magazines, books.....

Seconded.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by mithrandir

And all those funeral plan ads that run non-stop during the day.

Along with life/pet/BS insurance ads. They all push people to turn to the booze. Too much spam on the box. Even the frakin' weather's at it. Roasting in a nice 46c+ probably here in Hinchinbrook.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

A lot has been done to educate against and control smoking habits while little has been done when in comes to alcohol

Hi Trevor,

Come on, please, discuss something you know something about !!

I currently run a medium sized club on the NSW South Coast which sells about $40K per week worth of alcohol and employs about 40 staff who serve it. I have worked in this industry for over 30 years at the very top management levels including as an employee and as a consultant to the industry, for some of the biggest companies involved in the industry. I am currently the Chairman of the Kiama Liquor Accord.

The control and regulation of alcohol sales and its marketing and promotion has changed enormously over the past 20 years.

I could go into great detail to tell you how and where everything has changed, but that is way beyong the scope of this forum.

Lets give you something to think about however in regard to the basic things that have changed within the last 10 years,

1) New 3 strike legislation for licensees (ie 3 strikes and you lose your liquor license)

2) New Alcohol related violence recording system by the police force. Strict alcohol sales controls for specific high risk venues.

3) New alcohol promotion guidelines issued and controlled by Communities NSW (ex Office of Liquor gaming and racing)

4) Self Exclusion Policy from alcohol sales and consumption areas of any licensed venue.

5) New Photographic identification cards and more stringent RSA training for all people involved in the dispensing of alcohol.

6) More pro active liquor accords and greater responsibilty put on to those Liquor Accords by the Casino Liquor and gaming Control Authority.

7) The legal requirement to sell low alcohol beer at a discounted price compared to full strength beer.

8) The legal rquirement to have free water available at all times

9) The legal requirement to have food available at any time alcohol is available for purchase.

10) Breath analysis machines now installed in most licensed venues.

11) Education in Schools in regard to alcohol consumption, anti social behaviour and drink driving. In my capacity as Chairman of the Kiama Liquor Accord I just donated $2,000 to fund an alcohol awareness programme for next year at Kiama High School. How many licensed venues donated money to discourage people from drinking 20 years ago?

12) Stringent opening and closing times and alcohol sales guidelines imposed by the Liquor Casino and Gaming Control Authority for certain high risk venues. In addition to this the legal requirement to employ professional security guards has been introduced as a condition of a large number of Liquor Licenses at high risk venues.

20 years ago you could walk into most pubs in any major city in Australia and find an underage person consuming alcohol and a fair number of patrons so intoxicated they could hardly speak, or sit on their chairs.

Do the same now and see how many examples of this you can find.

Contrary to your comments I would say about the only thing that hasn't changed in regard to alcohol sales and consumption in the past 20 years is the fact that it is still legal to advertise it and sell it. The difference between alcohol and tobacco is that the control and education responsibilities of alcohol in most cases has been put back in the lap of the industry itself to regulate and control, whereas the government regulators stepped in and controlled the tobacco industry themselves.

Cheers,
John B

[TrevorW]

You assume a lot about what I know and don't know

I do know that a lot of regulations exist and are forced upon the retail outlets ( I don't think I mentioned anything about the retail outlets in my post, each state is different etc)

However I believe that the advertising of alcohol should be banned the same as cigarette smoking. I also believe based on the effects of alcohol that the Govt is hypocritical by their (in)actions.

A 2011 Poll 68% of people supported a ban on alcohol advertising

http://www.fare.org.au/research-deve...l-advertising/


Also read this report

http://www.fare.org.au/wp-content/up...-June-2012.pdf


An Extract from it

The cost of alcohol abuse is emotional and relational as well as financial. Heavy drinkers have cost those around them more than $14 billion in out-of-pocket expenses, forgone wages and productivity, and more than $6 billion in intangible costs. Each year more than 70 000 Australians are the victims of alcohol-related assaults and, of those, 24 000 are victims of domestic violence. In addition, almost 20 000 children across Australia are victims of substantiated alcohol-related child abuse.

[Danack (Dan Ackroyd)]

It would be seen as being a 'nanny state' action but I think that people should be required to have a license which would allow them to buy alcohol, marijuana and other drugs.

For most people drugs (including alcohol) don't affect them that badly and they don't become dependent on them.

Other people have huge problems with drugs and shouldn't be allowed to buy any of them or at least have strict limits on what they can buy.

Yes I know, unlikely to happen and if it did there would be more of a black market for booze (but less for marijuana), but there is something morally wrong when we allow people to drink themselves to death over a period of years.

[Barrykgerdes]

I think all advertising should be banned especially the garbage that fills my letterbox. However without it there would be nothing else for the advertising people to do but go to the pub and unemployment will jump.

As for TV advertising the alcohol adds don't bother me they are mostly more entertaining that the programs they sponser. The funeral plans, life insurance etc annoy me more.

In any case prohibition is the best way to increase sales of the products.

Barry

[avandonk]

As an old bloke who has watched what has happened to many others I see the problem of abuse of alcohol and other so called recreational drugs purely as a medical problem. When it is a criminal act to consume any substance, real criminality will soon eclipse this minor non victim activity.

That being said the large corporations that advertise are not trying to shift existing consumers to their 'brand' but are really recruiting the next generation. They have to replace their customers that are dying prematurely to maintain sales. This was the MO of the tobacco companies.

Prohibition will never work. If our society cannot keep illicit drugs out of our jails then how can it stop their use generally.

As for the nanny state, I reckon all these rules are ridiculous mob. From now on I will not stop at red lights, stop signs, pedestrian crossings. You get the idea!

Until our young see us adults show by example how to behave. We cannot decry their excessive consumption of alcohol with energy drinks.

Of course when I was a young lad I did not need energy drinks! White Lightning was good enough for me!

I am afraid that Trevor is quite correct. We spend literally billions trying to stop people having access to illicit drugs and ignore the major drug problem in our society. Alcohol.

I would be amazed if there was no correllation with alcohol use and our legislators and judges and police. Talk about separation of powers, on this they are in agreement.

Here is what white lightning means

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYY2FQHFwE

He did improve a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROA21n2zxmQ

No sign of drugs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY61KtLSeys

Bert