RIP Sirius Observatories

[simon_rl (Simon)]

Originally Posted by Merlin66

Simon, I think the family would still require you to have those services even if you bought an observatory.

Unfortunately you are right Ken. My life would be very short if I cut off all the services I mention. My wife and son would not be happy with me .

[Atmos (Colin)]

I tend to think of it the same way as you to Peter, long term "investing". Where I live in Melbourne there is no space to put in any kind of observatory and while I do have a 10 acre property in Heathcote I've still got quite some time before I want a fully automated place to deal with

Besides all that, looking at either buying or building a place later this near and need that all painful deposit.
I imaging this is the kind of issue that many run into. Renters will most likely never be able to put down the footing for an observatory and buying an observatory eats into any kind of deposit.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by lazjen

Is that for the base unit? Or with the automated bits as well?

Well, how about both? eg. is $10k too much for say a fully automated 2.3?

As for (not) having the money...Gerry Harvey made a fortune by selling dubious quality goods on "interest free" terms....plus there are things called banks who love to loan $ for all sorts of reasons.....hence I guess I comes down to appreciating the advantages, desire and motivation.

I simply wouldn't swap my Obs for a Foxtel subscription, period.

[codemonkey (Lee)]

If I didn't already have a 2.3m Sirius, I'd pay 10k for a fully automated 2.3m dome.

The dome I got was an old, beat up on. I wanted to automate it. Sirius quoted me about 11k (inc. freight, but I'm only 1 - 1.5hrs drive from them) for a retrofit kit including new top shutter, motors, controllers etc. I was prepared to pay 3.5k for that, but not 11k.

If you can get that retrofit kit to me for 3.5k, Peter, I'll be your first customer and even the wife will agree to that one ;-)

[Ausrock (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

I'm toying with the idea of still making the Sirius product available, but only in the 2.3 metre and 3.5 metre versions.

So a poll would be useful.

Size? 2.3 meter or 3.5 metre ?

Price limit ? $2.5k $5k, $7.5k $10K $15k $20K ??

Peter,

Do you know whether Peninsular F/glass would be willing to sell their moulds.

I work in composites, specifically in bespoke resin formulations, etc., and may be able to have some input should you take this further.

I hate to say this, but knowing the raw material costs, most manufactured f/glass products are extremely overpriced........the question is why.

ChrisO

[lazjen (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Well, how about both? eg. is $10k too much for say a fully automated 2.3?

...snip...

I simply wouldn't swap my Obs for a Foxtel subscription, period.

Nor would I swap mine either.

I'm not the right person to ask for the price, since I've already got a 3.5m unit with the motorised dome (what's the premium of 3.5 over 2.3 for price?). For me, I'm like Lee in that I need to pay for a bit more to finish the job: motorised shutter. I didn't bother for the same reason: too expensive for the necessary components.

I suspect you could bring the price of the system down a lot if you replaced the current MaxDome controlling system with something else.

And if you've got design/engineering control, there's a few alterations or optimisations I'd look at doing as well for the domes. Besides adding new, optional features, e.g. weather station integration, power management/access, internal environmental control (dehumidifier or A/C) - with all of these remote controllable and accessible.

So, how far do you want to go? I personally think that the domes being provided on the market really do not fully meet our needs. They're currently just a starting point and there's usually a lot more that needs to be done to finish the job properly.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Ausrock

I hate to say this, but knowing the raw material costs, most manufactured f/glass products are extremely overpriced........the question is why.

ChrisO

I can think of a few reasons:

3 sets of wages, OH&S precautions, factory lease costs, tooling and equipment, glass and resins, insurance, accounting and taxes etc. etc.

You'd need $300k for a year's operation before you laid up your first panel.

[kittenshark (Cheryl-Ann Tan)]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

Sad to hear, yet another astro company fallen. Unfortunately a sign of the times, it seems?

I have one, they are a great product.

Running costs in Australia have been high. Same goes for any country that has a decent min. wage. Labour costs will push up manufacturing and material costs indirectly. Then you got rent to pay. And shipping. It's insane that it usually costs less for some dude in China to ship the same item to a customer in Australia than it is for us to ship it locally (in the same suburb!).

Cheap mass market domes out of China anybody? I don't know, but likely. All you need to get is a container out of a Chinese factory and you likely will be able to compete with the cottage/niche industries in Australia. This is why it is a conscious effort, not a logical and economical one, to support Aussie manufacturers.

[TR (Terry)]

It is always sad to see an industry close its doors. There have been many interesting points raised in this thread. Comparing two domes is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are different sizes. I know that 0.7 of a meter doesn’t sound like a lot, but it is a significant difference. So, add in a size offset into your calculations. You are also comparing a turnkey solution with full automation to a solution where several have stated that they wish they had an automation kit or had this extra bit. So I believe that this is really not a far comparison. You could compare the Sirius 3.5 meter to the ScopeDome 3.0 meter. There is only a 0.5 meter size difference compared to the 0.7 of the 2.3 meter Sirius. Again, both very different.

I have seen the offerings from most vendors. The two mentioned in this thread, and others from overseas. I currently have two domes from different vendors. The first has changed hands several times, and is still kicking. In one of its previous lives, the dome worked continually in the deserts (it is fully automated) for a decade. As the third owner, I have had only a few issues over the years, but only with parts that would be considered consumables. Contacts/pullies/cables etc. The second, is one of the domes mentioned in this thread, the ScopeDome 3 meter. Gee, all I can say is that it really is a nice bit of engineering. It has three phase motor to control the rotation, and shutters. The ramp up and down very smoothly. It has sensors that can provide several weather metrics as well, and act on them. All the fittings are stainless steel. The fiberglass dome is marine grade, well they construct ships. I know they have been wind tested and don’t require an additional wind kit, it’s built correct. The shutter system can be open or closed in high wind, it doesn’t flap outwards exposed to the wind. The slit is very generous in width as well. That allows for faster cool down, and reducing turbulents.

As it if a fully robotic solution, I really have no need to have anything in the dome other than my observatory control gear, pc, and scope. The last thing to have would be any extraneous items or clutter in the dome. To be honest, extra stuff only provides for potential accidents or snags. A clean observatory is a happy observatory.

I’m just a happy customer, and have no regrets with my last dome purchase over a year ago.

[w0mbat (Ian)]

I bought a 2.3 M Sirius around three years ago with dome rotation but not shutter automation. When I enquired later about retrofitting the shutter automation I was pretty surprised to be quoted around $4K. I did not proceed. Now that they are closing I worry that I will regret that decision in the future. It would be really great if some future support or source of parts did eventuate. There must be many of these fine observatories out there so I suspect there would be many others feeling the same way once the news of their closure gets around. It would be interesting to find out how many have been sold.
Ian

[lazjen (Chris)]

Most of the shutter automation cost comes from the MaxDome components, which I believe come from Canada? Anyway, you might still be able to get them and finish the job.

I have heard of other ways to achieve the process without resorting to such an expensive path. Once I complete other things for the dome I might re-visit this and see what can be done.

[w0mbat (Ian)]

Originally Posted by lazjen

Most of the shutter automation cost comes from the MaxDome components, which I believe come from Canada?

Maxdome is a Diffraction Limited (Cyanogen) product from Canada. They charge a ridiculous amount for the board which is a simple old fashioned circuit board.

I remember hearing once (please correct me if you know this is wrong) that Maxdome was a originally a Sirius product but when it became Maxdome 2 they somehow lost control of the product to Diffraction Limited (the same people who sell Maxim DL).
I imagine that the cost of the automation components would have contributed to the demise of the Sirius observatories as a viable product.
Ian

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by w0mbat

Maxdome is a Diffraction Limited (Cyanogen) product from Canada. They charge a ridiculous amount for the board which is a simple old fashioned circuit board.

I remember hearing once (please correct me if you know this is wrong) that Maxdome was a originally a Sirius product but when it became Maxdome 2 they somehow lost control of the product to Diffraction Limited (the same people who sell Maxim DL).
I imagine that the cost of the automation components would have contributed to the demise of the Sirius observatories as a viable product.
Ian

That is incorrect.

Due a lack of affordable Australian expertise, Advanced Telescope Supplies hired Cyanogen to develop the original MaxDome product for Sirius, and was the sole agent for them, with Sirius being main customer.

The original system did not have remote shutter control, which in the end saw its demise, as this was essential for fully robotc operation.

It was however a lot less expensive than the albeit more capable MaxDome II

[Star Hunter]

I've got a Sirius 2.6m and 3.6m that house a solar scope and 12"F15 C'Cass and are perfect for that. But nothing, IMHO, beats a roll-off obs. Having said that, the money spent on a complete dome setup as opposed to a RO is unquestionable. Noting beats watching a big roof slide back to allow a multitude of scopes and cameras to work all night, unhindered by a tiny slit in a dome.
Jim

[spiezzy]

I totally agree with you Jim
I have a POD Observatory and it has its limits with the Zenith but I still love it very much .
before I purchased the POD ,at my old place I had a ROR obs and that was just perfect and added on a warm room off to the side and it was just so comfortable on those cold nights .
I had a TV all my computer gear serpent from the main imaging scope The ROR was quite simple to build and from memory only cost me around $1500
before we moved house I had the this full automated the person that purchased the house was a Astronomer him self .
but the Sirius Observatory has always appealed to me but was always just out of my price range for a new unit they are a beautiful Piece of engineering sad to see them go
cheers Pete

[Star Hunter]

Originally Posted by spiezzy

I totally agree with you Jim
I have a POD Observatory and it has its limits with the Zenith but I still love it very much .
before I purchased the POD ,at my old place I had a ROR obs and that was just perfect and added on a warm room off to the side and it was just so comfortable on those cold nights .
I had a TV all my computer gear serpent from the main imaging scope The ROR was quite simple to build and from memory only cost me around $1500
before we moved house I had the this full automated the person that purchased the house was a Astronomer him self .
but the Sirius Observatory has always appealed to me but was always just out of my price range for a new unit they are a beautiful Piece of engineering sad to see them go
cheers Pete

Agreed mate. Oz does not have the population to allow astro businesses to flourish like in the US or UK, nor do they have the dark skies as we do, but then, my guess is by 2050 and certainly by 2100, there will be very little dark skies left in Oz due to CSG flares, pop. expansion and so forth. But with the closing of Sirius Observatories, someone sill fill the hole left. Personally, an ROR is the way to go if you have the space.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Star Hunter

...Noting beats watching a big roof slide back to allow a multitude of scopes and cameras to work all night, unhindered by a tiny slit in a dome.
Jim

Agreed for multiple mounts, a roll-off simply works. Domes are hard to beat for protection from wind buffeting and stray lights...the latter being my major problem.

[Star Hunter]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Agreed for multiple mounts, a roll-off simply works. Domes are hard to beat for protection from wind buffeting and stray lights...the latter being my major problem.

I've designed numerous ROR and built three and one 'flip-top'. IN the ROR's One 4 x3m, a 6 x 6m and 8 x 6m. Each roof rolls back to the north using a rack and pinion and hydraulic pump. Another uses an auto-gate motor and the small one, a R/P via a DC motor. Each one has 1.8m walls. The reason why I go RTOR's is because it allows one to use a multitude of cameras, lenses and scopes. While wind buffering can be a bit of hassle at times, I have never had any image shakes, as the motto I live by in telescope mounts is.. 'A tree is only as strong as its roots are deep' Those with heaps of room like in acreage, and ROR is the king. Those with limited space, a small scope a dome. Those into AstroPhotog'y will say, an ROR is the ONLY way to go.

Jim

[Paul Haese]

Sad to hear of Sirius passing. They have served both the domestic and international market for years.

Sirius were probably a bit too expensive really for many to afford and that affected their bottom line. The cost of labour in this country is high but if you pump out more units you can compensate for this cost, its really a matter of efficiencies.

Scope dome makes automation kits which will fit Sirius domes and will work perfectly well. In fact their automation kits work well for ROR systems too. I have a version 2 USB card for my roll off roof system. The astronomical society of South Australia has one installed in their new 8 meter 4 tonne turret system. We are currently installing the roof component with a 12V system. Such is the flexibility of the Scope Dome control system.

I have owned a 3M Scope Dome 3 years. I am using a version 1.1 USB card in that dome. Its been through about 6 major storms with wind gusts over 125km/h. Never had any issue with it; wide slit, good security, excellent wall thickness which stops deflection, great for automation and it was affordable when I bought mine. The current prices for Australia are over inflated in my opinion. I paid $10K for my dome with full automation. My ROR automation kit cost $2500+ 200 for freight from Poland 4 years ago. It came with rack and pinion, three phase motor, variable speed drive, internal and external thermometers, hygrometer and both bottom and top control units.

Despite domes being really sexy, I still think a ROR is going to be king with an automation kit. You only need to have the roof open and close with monitoring for weather. You alleviate the need to have a dome rotate about the scope and you can carry more than one system under a ROR if you plan it out well.

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

As the North Qld Dealer for Sirius Observatories we too were saddened by their demise. Too many quotes going out for the domes but not enough orders coming back. It is a very great shame, especially that they shipped many to the world over the years including to NASA, JPL and the likes !
Two fine gentlemen forced into an early retirement and My good friend who worked for them out of work too :-(
I too would have liked one, once I had the acreage to put it on.