ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
Waning Gibbous 80.2%
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11-03-2020, 11:35 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 478
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EQ6 Pro - mods/tweaks
I have an old EQ6 Pro (I think this is somewhere between 2006-2009 vintage?).
I'm pretty happy with the mount in general, but things like the PEC training not being able to be stored is a bit frustrating, but I'm also wanting to see if there's much I can do to tweak it (I've seen belt mods, various replacement bolts etc), but no good indication as to if even contemplating that, is a cost effective solution over a differrent mount choice.
I'm also just resigned to probably just saving up and getting a much better mount down the road that could be used for a variety of scopes, but hoping to get some idea of what I can do to tweak what I have in the interim.
The belt mod seems way out of my personal skillset and toolset to manage to try and get better tracking.
My guiding at the moment is ranging around +/- 1.5", which seems ok for what I'm doing, but to be honest, not sure if that is good or bad for one of these mounts. It's doing what I need at the moment, but I don't know if it can be improved.
Anyone care to share their experiences and if it's worth the effort?
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12-03-2020, 08:46 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kyneton
Posts: 840
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One thing that trumps all else Rob is this questions........'do my subs look ok'?
If they do then don't worry about what your mount is doing. Comparing guiding with others will just end in frustration because you will never get as a good a graph and the person next door (and being the internet that person next door may not be telling you the truth on how their mount performs anyway!)
Having said the above I will give you my experience though.
I run an neq6 with about 14.5kgs on it. Guiding is via a zwo guidescope and asi120. Focal length of my scope is 925mm.
For a couple years my guiding ranged anywhere from 1rms (good night/seeing) to 3rms. Some subs were ok, some I threw away.
Getting a little more serious about the astro journey I went mono and had to make a decision on whether to buy a better mount as the 14.5kg I was carrying is around the imaging limit for the neq6 in standard form (IMO).
I was about to pull the pin on an EQ8 but decided instead to throw some money at the neq6 to see if I could improve it ($5.5K for the EQ8 made the decision pretty easy when i thought about it).
I replaced all bearings, did a belt mod and installed a Rowan Astronomy Zero RA backlash kit and re-greased it. I immediately had a significant improvement.
Guiding now with the exact same weight/setup I'm getting 0.2 rms (good night) to 0.7 rms. I'm easily doing 10 minute subs, have done 20 minutes also with no issue. I throw away 1 in 50 subs on average due to a significant error from unknown causes (significant error = the guide graph shoots off sideways for a few seconds then recovers). I dont bother with PEC.....I dont think I need it.
A note on the neq6 mount and modding it......it's not difficult, not in the slightest. I was really nervous at first and wasn't sure if I was making a massive mistake tackling the job myself however soon realised that beneath the pretty paint these things aren't high precision machines that require years of training or engineering experience to open. In all honesty they are made up of some pretty poorly cast housings held together with a few screws, nuts and bolts and you don't need specialist equipment to work with them. The worm and ring gear does need to be treated nicely but apart from that these things are rough pieces of mass produced Chinese gear.
I've worked on my own cars (sometimes very unsuccessfully) and tinkered with things through the years but I am by no means an engineer or mechanic.
From my experience it is well worth giving these things a tune up. It cost me under $1K (plus my time) to go from something that was pretty average to something that easily meets my needs and I think is on par with mounts worth many times more when it comes to tracking performance.
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12-03-2020, 09:28 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 478
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Jon,
Thanks for the feedback. Very much appreciated.
I think the subs I'm getting are pretty good, but then again, I really don't have heavy gear on my system. Guiding sorts out most issues, and I suspect my polar alignment might need a tweak too as after 6-7 hours in a night, the subs have drifted maybe somewhere between 1/16th to 1/8th of the frame. Fine for widefield, but probably not good if I want to go longer.
Where did you get the various parts from? Is there a "kit", or do you need to source all the bits yourself? I've looked at some of the available photo run-thoughs, and I've got to admit they look a bit daunting.
Maybe I need to get my LX200 back up and running properly again before I do anything that has me with no working scopes available!
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12-03-2020, 09:53 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kyneton
Posts: 840
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There isn't an overall 'kit' as such....I sourced the following -
- Belt mod kit from Sidereal Trading (suggest you definately get the bearing carrier/nut removal tool to make life easier)
- RA backlash kit from Sidereal trading
- Bearings from ebay (get japan made)
- Lube from ebay
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12-03-2020, 11:35 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney and South Coast NSW
Posts: 6,058
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I’m guilty of continually staring at the PHD2 guiding graph and the arc sec error read outs and not looking at the subs
I could never get my HEQ5 mount carrying 9kg under 1 arc sec ( good nights 1.20 to 1.40 bad nights 1.40 to 1.80 ) and yet rarely find a poor sub with bloated or eggy stars
Dithering was this mounts downfall, the Dec got knocked around a bit which ended up discarding a few subs
On the other hand my EQ6-R ( out of the box ) guides under 1 arc sec most nights and no issue at all pushing 5 minute dithered subs with perfect round stars to edge of field
It’s true a lot of people get hung up on getting below the “magical” 1 arc sec error in guiding
Wise words , let your subs be the judge of your guiding not the graph and numbers
Trevor Jones from Astrobackyard has a good YouTube video on APT and PHD2 ( worth a look )
Cheers
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12-03-2020, 03:13 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imme
- Bearings from ebay (get japan made)
- Lube from ebay
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Do we know the part numbers of the bearings?
Any particular type of grease? I saw 3 or 4 different suggestions in various posts.
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12-03-2020, 08:01 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 478
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Awesome - thanks for the details!
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12-03-2020, 08:09 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kyneton
Posts: 840
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It’s also a great tutorial to follow....
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13-03-2020, 10:31 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Junortoun Vic
Posts: 8,907
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These bearing details may assist.
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13-03-2020, 11:57 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Perth
Posts: 209
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From my experience tracking at or below 1 arc secs rms is fairly achievable even in poor seeing for an eq6. This is a good article for the effects of seeing on tracking Its what convinced me there was some improvment to be had. I have an NEQ6 of a similar vintage and decided to tear it down and do a tune up and belt mod it. I found the biggest impact was actually just replacing the worm bearings. I must have got a bad batch of skf bearings because it wasn't until I switched them out with a couple of hybrid ceramic 608 bearings from ebay I that I started getting sub arcseccond tracking.
So If you were woried about throwing good money after bad that might be a good option to try first. Of course if it doesn't work you could always strip it down again
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13-03-2020, 11:05 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 478
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Thanks everyone.
Sounds like I will probably give this a go when I've got a chance.
The EQ6 so far has been a better imaging mount than the LX200, but, it's getting to be galaxy season, and I need to get the longer focal length in play before I pull apart the EQ6!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunslayr
I must have got a bad batch of skf bearings because it wasn't until I switched them out with a couple of hybrid ceramic 608 bearings from ebay I that I started getting sub arcseccond tracking.
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Are you saying that these are a better type of bearing in general, or do you feel that the SKF bearings you had were bad?
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13-03-2020, 11:20 PM
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Big Scopes are Cool
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SE Tasmania
Posts: 4,532
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13-03-2020, 11:29 PM
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Gravity does not Suck
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tabulam
Posts: 16,932
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Rob.
At most pull it down, polish high spots, clean it nice new grease... adjust exposure times to what the scope can manage.
In time buy another mount if you wish but just run this one at whatever level it can manage...it will always manage wife fields.
Work on PA get that nailed down.
Good luck.
Alex
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13-03-2020, 11:34 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Perth
Posts: 209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_pascale
Are you saying that these are a better type of bearing in general, or do you feel that the SKF bearings you had were bad?
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I'd probably go with the latter, when I turn them they feel a little gritty so maybe I contaminated them, I'm not really a bearing expert though . The hybrid ones are the type they use in fidget spinners so they spin really freely, I imagine they have a much thinner grease, maybe closer to oil. Maybe that is what really made the difference. Unfortunately they are a little hard to get a hold of locally so If you are buying off ebay they tend to be of questionable quality so get more than you need and pick the good ones.
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16-03-2020, 06:27 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,738
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I really like the skf bearings. Nice and smooth. I get the xxxRS, or maybe it is RZ? Anyway, the ones with the double sided rubber seals.
They are the same as on my CGEM. I got 608rs bearings for the worm drive shaft. I replaced one ofthe big 6008 bearings on the shafts - it was real stuck - got a bit rusty somehow. Some of the others were a bit gritty. I pulled off the rubber seals, cleaned them out and regreased with superlube. Felt so much better.
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