Looking for a decent set of binoculas for astronomy

[Mountain_Wanderer]

G'day dudes,

I'm a bit of a beginner getting into astronomy. Lately I've been scoping out a good telescope to buy and I've pretty much decided that I'll be getting an 8 inch solid tube dobsonian. Only thing is, I won't be getting it straight away due to to other priorities in the budget!

In the meantime, to satisfy my apetite I am thinking of getting a good set of binoculas to gaze at the heavens and learn the sky before my eventual telescope purchase. It would be a cheaper start to my new hobby compared to a telescope. Sounds good aye.

So, I was wondering if there are any suggestions you have for me? I don't want to spend a mint. Perhaps $100-150 max. How much aperature is recommended? Is it worth having a huge magnification or is this useless if accompanied by only a modest aperature? Currently I have a small 10x magnification, 25mm aperature binoculas. Would a 50mm be much better, or should I aim larger? What is a good magnification?

I want to sit around outside and learn the constellations, hopefully see planets as more than a dot, hopefully see some of the other wonders of the sky as more than just dots etc. What would be best?

Also, why I'm here. Would I need anything to keep the binoculas steady, such as a tripod etc? Or, if I have a decent camping fold-out chair would this be the best way to keep everything still whilst being able to look directly upwards to the sky? Any tips on how best to observe the stars using binoculas would be much appreciated. It seems it's bloody hard to look up and still for a long period of time.

Well, hope to hear from youz...

Cheers

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hey Jowel,

Me again,

Sheesh, more stuff? OK, here's what I think for this. I'm no expert here, plenty of EXPENSIVE binoculars around which could cost you even MORE than the telescope so be careful.

First, a set of 8 x 50 or even 10 x 50 binoculars are light, good value, easy to hold and can be used easily and quickly if you want to use them for sports, marine, down at the beach, birdwatching. They also are VERY handy for the night sky. Remember, the 9 x 50 finder i described on the scope? Well, a set of 10 x 50 binoculars is basically 2 of these side by side.

You can pick up a set of good quality (read GOOD, not Expensively GREAT) 50mm binos from Andrews (their own brand) for only $99. Now for this money, you could get either:

10 x 50 MARINE grade binos, waterproof, etc - nice features (1.2kg) or
10 x 60 normal ones (1kg) or
12 x 60 normal or 15 x 60 normal.

These are all quite lightweight at around 1-1.2kg. Weight is IMPORTANT when you are holding them as your arms get tired quite quicky if the binos are heavy. But more on that in a bit.

If you want to spend $50 more, you can get 11x70 or 15x70 versions for $149, and these give you more aperture but the same levels of magnification. I personally have a set of 11 x 70 and they are great, although are somewhat heavy even in short bursts as they weigh almost twice as much (1.6kg).

Either of these types, the 10 x 50's (especially the handy waterproof marine ones) , the 60mm ones or even the 70mm ones will be really good to use for the night sky.

If you have a camera tripod, you can use this with a $15 L bracket which holds the binoculars and then allows them to be mounted on the tripod. This is GREAT for longer viewing sessions as they are more stable and saves strain on your arms a LOT.

Lying down sort of helps, but its cold on the ground as well as hard to scan around if you flit from one thing to the next. Also, sitting is OK, but you still sort of need to "prop" against something to stop the shakes (it happens, dont be fooled) and if you get shaky or even try to look at something for a while, you will start to get annoyed with the image jumping around all the time. Hence, the bino L bracket.

Of course, I am talking the budget end of the scale, where a decent set of binos should cost you around $100-$150 for some quite good and largeish sets. It goes without saying that there are bigger, better and higher quality ones out there (Pentax, Fuji, GIANT, etc etc) but depending on the size and quality, these can even get up as high as $20,000. Seriously.

I am sure Eric (moderator Erick) could offer some good advice on size/quality/budget considerations here as he had an avatar pic of himself a while back with about 4 pairs of binoculars around his neck and therefore I think he is a bit of an afficionado...

Another short story from me, in a nutshell, portable, comfortable and USEABLE are the things to look for in the lower price range. Don't get too carried away coz things can get very expensive. (just like the telescopes and options)

Oh, and by the way, dont go overboard with the magnification, it was explained to me that the exit pupil on my 11x70mm is around 7mm which is optimal for how far the human pupil can expand at night (gets smaller with age) so if you get a 15 x 70 the extra mag may become wasted as you wont be able to take in all the view anyway as you get older. (someone will no doubt either correct me here or explain it better)

If you want my best buy recommendation for the budget you have....go for the 10 x 50 Marine version, nice and light, easy to hold, nitrogen purged (means there is no gunky air inside to degrade the mirrors), good all round performance and waterproof to 1m for 1 hour. If you have kids or perhaps a significant other who wants to take a look, they are not too heavy and like the sound telescope advice, the BEST buy is the equipment you will use the MOST. $99. Bargain.

Cheers

Chris

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Chris, I love your work. So very informative!

10x50 seems to be the magic number. I have a tripod so attaching it to that should be the way to go.

There's just so many brands and types out there it's amazing. I'll have to take a look at Andrews some time...

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Jowel,

Here is the link if you need it, will take you straight to their Andrews binocular page....http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-co...11-andrews.htm

Always a pleasure to help.

Cheers

Chris

[RickS (Rick)]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

Oh, and by the way, dont go overboard with the magnification, it was explained to me that the exit pupil on my 11x70mm is around 7mm which is optimal for how far the human pupil can expand at night (gets smaller with age) so if you get a 15 x 70 the extra mag may become wasted as you wont be able to take in all the view anyway as you get older. (someone will no doubt either correct me here or explain it better)

Not quite right, sorry Chris

The size of the exit pupil is the aperture divided by the magnification. For example, the size of the exit pupil for 10x70 binocs is 7mm and for 20x70 binocs it would be 3.5mm.

A good (young) eye nominally has a maximum pupil size of 7mm when dark adapted. With older eyes or a less dark observing site your pupil size will be less than 7mm. If your pupil is smaller than the exit pupil of the binocs, then the extra light won't reach your retina, so it's actually aperture that's being wasted.

So... unless you have great eyes and a very dark site a pair of 10x50 binocs will be about as effective as a pair of 10x70s.

Cheers,
Rick.

[leon]

Don't go much over 10x50 they are a little bit hard to hold still unless of coarse you have them mounted.

I have Pentax 10x50, and they are superb, not cheap but well worth the dollars.

Leon

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

I am sure Eric (moderator Erick) could offer some good advice on size/quality/budget considerations here as he had an avatar pic of himself a while back with about 4 pairs of binoculars around his neck and therefore I think he is a bit of an afficionado...

moderator? You guys don't want to wish that much trouble onto yourselves!

I just like binoculars for certain uses. If I could have a binocular telescope (newtonian reflector based) I would!

I've only ever had cheap binos - but I guess that, since I have a set of Pentax now, I'm drifting up the $ scale.

Don't look at anything under 50mm aperture for astronomical binoculars. If you can extend to 60mm, the extra aperture can be worthwhile. Probably not have greater than 12 magnification for hand-held. I have a pair of 12x60 and a pair of 10x50 that I use hand-held. I have a pair of 20x80 that have to go onto a mount to be effective. I had a pair of 30x100 which must be mounted. But, in truth, if I want to study an area or compare with a star chart or telescopic view, I always mount on a tripod, even the 10x50s. The higher the magnification, the harder to locate your target. I used a red dot finder in conjunction with my 30x100s!

If you are thinking of trying to see detail on Saturn, Jupiter or the Moon, my experience is that a telescope will always do better. If you are looking at nebula, galaxies, open clusters, starfields - a binocular view can be very pleasing.

Plus binoculars can always be readily used for terrestrial daytime observing without modification, unlike the majority of telescopes. And portable - very!

There are plenty of threads on choosing and using binoculars if you search.

Look to spend $140+ to get a respectable pair of 10x50 or 12x60 - plus the extra for a robust tripod (the better camera tripods - $100+) plus an "L-mount" bracket (the bracket is very cheap at Andrews - get the metal one not the plastic one).

Two eyes open wins!
Cheers
Eric

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Originally Posted by RickS

Not quite right, sorry Chris

The size of the exit pupil is the aperture divided by the magnification. For example, the size of the exit pupil for 10x70 binocs is 7mm and for 20x70 binocs it would be 3.5mm.

A good (young) eye nominally has a maximum pupil size of 7mm when dark adapted. With older eyes or a less dark observing site your pupil size will be less than 7mm. If your pupil is smaller than the exit pupil of the binocs, then the extra light won't reach your retina, so it's actually aperture that's being wasted.

So... unless you have great eyes and a very dark site a pair of 10x50 binocs will be about as effective as a pair of 10x70s.

Cheers,
Rick.

Quite all right Rick, I thought my explanation sounded a bit dodgy, thanks for the clarification.

Cheers

Chris

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Originally Posted by erick

moderator? You guys don't want to wish that much trouble onto yourselves!

Cheers
Eric

I could have sworn you were one previously? No? must be my alzheimer's kicking in.....

I at least got the name right...and the fact that you had a few pairs...

Cheers

Chris

[austinstkong (Austin)]

Thought I'd add to your question.

What about zoom binoculars? Would they be worth getting?

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Cool. Thanks for all the tips.

So if I get a pair of 10x 50mm binoculas am I able to see Jupiters moons? Are planets more than just a dot? Can nebulas have any detail? Is getting a slightly larger aperature or magnification really worth it or is 10x 50mm pretty good to stick with?

So are there any recommendations for what I could buy for $100-150? I actually visited Andrews store and the binoculas they have available in the store to look through are just the Andrews branded ones which I believe are from China. Do these rate well? The "major" brands are not actually available to look through so who knows what I'll be getting if I buy it online from them?

So what are some "real" brands that people recommend?

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by austinstkong

Thought I'd add to your question.

What about zoom binoculars? Would they be worth getting?

I haven't tried them myself. Most people say no. But they used to say that about zoom eyepieces - now they are quite an acceptable item, several of which are made by very reputable quality companies. I expect that a pair of zoom binoculars made by one of the better companies (if such binoculars exist) would probably be worth a look.

The other area of interest is image-stabilised binoculars. Some think these are superb items. I worry about weight and battery consumption - and they cost a lot more.

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by Jowel

Cool. Thanks for all the tips.

So if I get a pair of 10x 50mm binoculas am I able to see Jupiters moons? Are planets more than just a dot? Can nebulas have any detail? Is getting a slightly larger aperature or magnification really worth it or is 10x 50mm pretty good to stick with?

So are there any recommendations for what I could buy for $100-150? I actually visited Andrews store and the binoculas they have available in the store to look through are just the Andrews branded ones which I believe are from China. Do these rate well? The "major" brands are not actually available to look through so who knows what I'll be getting if I buy it online from them?

So what are some "real" brands that people recommend?

With reasonable quality 10x50 binos, yes, you will see Jupiter's Moons. You might be able to make out that Saturn has rings. The Moon will look good. nebulae, star clusters, the brighter and bigger galaxies - fine.

As I said, 10x50 through to 12x60 - whatever in that range feels and looks good and is the price you are willing to pay.

Now have you checked the Andrews website?

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm

Check Fujinon 10x50s. This is one of the top brands from what I have read. Check the price $1,199 - Gulp! But that is what you have to pay, for the best.

Yes, I expect all of Andrews-branded ones are made in China. That High Grade 10x50 they are selling for $169 looks interesting - they read well.

If you can visit and handle the binoculars you plan to buy would be best. You need to learn how to quickly check by looking through either end and how to quickly check if they are collimated.

Here is a guide to checking things in the store:-

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea...b/5/o/all/vc/1

In fact, spend a while looking around the Binoculars Forum on Cloudy Nights.

[Suzy]

Suzy's wondering if Chris's digits are close to dropping off yet from all the numerous and large posts lately for Jowel .

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Suzy

Suzy's wondering if Chris's digits are close to dropping off yet from all the numerous and large posts lately for Jowel .

no, not yet Suzy, still able to type.....

Hey, you and I are the KING and QUEEN of beginner question essay responses....you can talk!

Someone has to do it....and its fun to try and sound knowledgeable on such matters.

Cheers

Chris

[Suzy]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

no, not yet Suzy, still able to type.....

Hey, you and I are the KING and QUEEN of beginner question essay responses....you can talk!

Someone has to do it....and its fun to try and sound knowledgeable on such matters.

Cheers

Chris

[Stu Ward]

I recently purchased a set of Andews 12x60 binoculars.
The quality seems fine, but im suprised by how much i shake and how difficult it can be to keep the Object in view steady.
Last night was the first clear night since i purchased them, so gave them a good try.
Jupiter and her moons can be clearly seen, but you need to have your arms well supported to stop them from jumping around.
I also find it very difficult to look at anything near the zenith without a crick in my neck !!

Maybe you need to be lying down ?

The most use i get from them is to being able to quickly scan the sky and spot something that might be of interest to look at in more detail and more steadily with my dob

Stu

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by Stu Ward

I also find it very difficult to look at anything near the zenith without a crick in my neck !!

Maybe you need to be lying down ?

Or a suitable reclining lounge or chair.

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Hi all.

It seems it's all come down to a choice of either a pair of 7x 50mm, or a pair of 10x 50mm.

It seems the 10x50 offer slightly more magnification but a smaller pupil size. The 7x50 have a larger field of view and large pupil size ensuring that as much light from the binoculas can be used.

The question is, is 10x magnification really that much different to 7x? And, would it be fair so say that even if you had a larger magnification (10x) compared to 7x, you still wouldn't see any detail on Jupiter, but rather just a slightly larger disc compared to a 7x?

So, I guess binoculas are less about detail and more about light and colour? Therefore a smaller magnification could be the choice?

[Stu Ward]

As stated previously, i have a set of X12 mag binos and Jupiter is still a very small disc, planetary detail may not be visable at all.
You can clearly see the moons