Compulsory Military Service.

[xelasnave]

I am encouraged by the overall rejection of the concept and recognition by some of possible benefits.

I suppose why I even thought about the idea was the concern I hold for some of our young folk who clearly are seen as the future unemployed whose sole roll in society is... well what is their roll? They live in times where if labour is needed it is imported, where Governments let businesses do such rather than seek to educate and train young folk and create a supply of talent... No there seems a choice to import workers rather than train locals.
And then gthinking about any of such matters one realises that one is becoming nationalistic which itself would seem a bad thing.
Alex

[casstony]

Originally Posted by dimithri86

National service would be a great idea, if the only time you could be called to fight would be on our soil to defend the country. Barring that scenario, keep the national service well trained, and put them to good use, building schools, water systems etc in places that need it.

You're probably already aware that the US govt sent National Servicemen to Iraq which is not what they signed up for. Once you're on the books for having done any kind of military training you're liable to be targeted for draft. Governments prove time and again that they can't be trusted, certainly not with the lives our most precious young people.

Canadian dual citizenship is a good thing

[Tropo-Bob (Bob)]

I would like to see young people be offered a form of properly paid community service for a 12-month block, anytime that they wish to choose it between the ages of 18 to 22.

Young people could go into various streams where they could undergo a few months training and then be available as an additional backup to the workforce to undertake anything from responding and providing aid after natural disasters and/or be a roving workforce providing a bonus help on capital works for remote councils. I am sure other worthwhile jobs could also be found.

This would give every young person the chance to be engaged in the workforce and in some cases turn their life around. If a young person has never worked, and has no acceptable reason, then their dole should be reviewed and possibly ceased at 23.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I suppose why I even thought about the idea was the concern I hold for some of our young folk who clearly are seen as the future unemployed whose sole roll in society is... well what is their roll? Alex

I fear their primary role may be to rebel against an increasingly divided society, assuming unemployment rises due to automation/robots taking jobs.
Some have suggested a universal basic wage. Whatever it is, the solution needs to keep people involved in the community; optional military service and meaningful community service might play a part?

In any case if the haves don't find a way to include the have-nots things will get ugly.

[xelasnave]

A larger public service... So if you cant find work you have a job in the public service... And that way everyone is employed.

But I dont think a market economy can function with 100% employement... Inflation would need to be controlled by price fixing rather than interest rates.... Its not easy.
Perhaps go back to gold coinage... or shells or just let the banks control the money and society.

Alex

[casstony]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

A larger public service... So if you cant find work you have a job in the public service... And that way everyone is employed.

But I dont think a market economy can function with 100% employement... Alex

I guess it would have to be a two tiered system, still based on capitalism, with the lucky/smart/driven people having jobs they competed for but the (otherwise) unemployed still having a living wage and being included in the community.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by casstony

I guess it would have to be a two tiered system, still based on capitalism, with the lucky/smart/driven people having jobs they competed for but the (otherwise) unemployed still having a living wage and being included in the community.

I spent time in the public service and so many very good at their jobs and employable any where.
Some however in my view would not get employement in the real world.. But they had work and pride and income to put into the system.
We wont tolerate such inefficiencies to give someone work and self pride and yet happy to glorify sports stars and pay them very well.
I have no problem with folk getting million dollar salaries but if they get that at least give everyone work at some meager wage....
There is a two layer system at work now and I guess what I would like to see is no one forced to live on the dole.. I think having work no matter how inefficient the worker may be is preferable to having them not working board and susceptible to substance abuse because of boardom.

I think foke get more from having a job than just a pay packet.

I think my thoughts on compulsory military service was an effort to give everyone work... I assumed no one would actually be going to war.

Alex

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

But I dont think a market economy can function with 100% employement...
Alex

True. I think people tend to forget that unemployment is a structural feature of capitalism, and possibly unique to it. Did you ever hear of an unemployed hunter gatherer? or subsistence farmer, or serf, or peasant? I'm not saying that any of these systems are preferable - they were replaced for good reasons - but lets not forget that it isn't the unemployed who cause the existence of unemployment.

Originally Posted by casstony

I guess it would have to be a two tiered system, still based on capitalism, with the lucky/smart/driven people having jobs they competed for but the (otherwise) unemployed still having a living wage and being included in the community.

Aren't you forgetting a tier? The capitalists.

[75BC (Brendon)]

I always thought this was a good idea but it was recently a subject on talkback radio. Someone involved in military training said how it does not work with someone who really doesn't want to be there. I'd never looked at it from that direction before and it did change my mind.

[raymo]

That seems to be a strange statement, as probably millions of men[ and in some countries, women] have done National Service in Britain and elsewhere, with no obvious ill effects, and almost all of them would not have wanted to be there.
raymo

[75BC (Brendon)]

I know what you mean Raymo and because other countries do it is why I thought it was a good idea.
They were talking about problems the trainers could encounter with a particularly difficult person in the current environment of the PC soft approach to everything. Can't enforce a the tough love approach anymore.
I also don't think all Australians in this demographic are going to be willing participants so I wouldn't like to be the one dealing with them. I'd end up on charges of some type.
I don't think a lot of young people today like being forced to do anything do they?

[casstony]

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for not wanting to do national service, but we shouldn't let that interfere with the time honoured tradition of slagging off at the younger generation.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by casstony

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for not wanting to do national service, but we shouldn't let that interfere with the time honoured tradition of slagging off at the younger generation.

Why cant they be perfect like us.
I meet some unfortunate folk and I care ...that is my reason for wondering how things may be made better.

Alex

[Astrophe (John)]

This is one out of left field. Surprising that Alex has the time to worry about such matters, when it's all too plainly obvious that the great man is pressed for time.

Let's face it, there's a snowflake's chance in Hell of reintroducing conscription.....which is really what Alex is proposing. I think that Alex should get himself a useful job, rather than waste our time with kite-flying exercises.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

I understand that the US had lots of trouble in Vietnam with the conscripted 'grunts'. The stories I've heard probably emphasis the worst aspects but they are pretty bad. They include:

• faking going on patrol (walk a km from the base, sit down for a few days, return and say you didn't see the enemy)
• drug abuse, both marijuana and heroin (heroin had the advantage of being more compact, having no smell and the user looks less drug affected)
• fraging unpopular officers. Don't know if this is true but supposedly a few officers had grenades lobed into the loo while they were there.

[Tropo-Bob (Bob)]

Originally Posted by 75BC

I always thought this was a good idea but it was recently a subject on talkback radio. Someone involved in military training said how it does not work with someone who really doesn't want to be there. I'd never looked at it from that direction before and it did change my mind.

Yeah, I heard a ex-military person saying that they did not want to have to be responsible for sorting out young-people's drug addictions; again for people that do not want to be there.

Perhaps implement it in some form for oldies on the pension seeing they 'respect' discipline and authorities so much.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Astrophe

This is one out of left field. .

Left field is Alex' specialty. His posts are often thought provoking and he likes a good chat. I don't see any problem, though I admit it is unusual to find eccentric people in the field of astronomy

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Astrophe

This is one out of left field. Surprising that Alex has the time to worry about such matters, when it's all too plainly obvious that the great man is pressed for time.

Let's face it, there's a snowflake's chance in Hell of reintroducing conscription.....which is really what Alex is proposing. I think that Alex should get himself a useful job, rather than waste our time with kite-flying exercises.

Well John you fail to see my concern for others even though I expressed that was my motivation.

I posted so folk like me could have a chat, even folk like yourself may even find time to express an opinion but in future you may be able to recognise that I open many kite flying threads and so you will be able to side step and not get involved and waste your time... You could put me on ignore and take me out of your universe altogether.

I doubt at 70 years old and using a walking frame and barely capable of looking after myself I could offer any employer much opportunity to profit from my feeble contribution to their business.

But think of it this way I am sure you must have gained some small satisfaction having a dig so maybe I can be that person you just love to hate.

Great man, a back hander indeed, don't you recognise humility when it is before you.

Hope you feel better and look forward to your future contributions.Thanks for playing I do enjoy it.

Alex

[xelasnave]

Apparently compulsory service tends to degrade the quality of a countries military according to someone on the net, but just like that guy I offer no authority.
Maybe he just thought that sounded good and adopted that position without any study...but so many folk fall for belief rather than seek research.
Alex

[graham.hobart (Graham stevens)]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-2...t-boys/8837368


Today's ABC.
Seems we are raising a bunch of useless gorms! (especially boys)