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  #1  
Old 15-03-2017, 10:41 PM
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New ZWO Camera Announcement

Was just on ZWO's Facebook page and found this low key announcement. A new camera with the same Sony sensor as the Nikon D810a. I had a Nikon D810, then I discovered astronomy . I was an amazing camera. The D810a is the same sensor with different low pass filter and firmware. "If" ZWO get this right this is going to be one amazing camera.

https://www.facebook.com/ZwoDesignAs...meras/?fref=ts

The announcement is a few posts down now.
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  #2  
Old 15-03-2017, 11:23 PM
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QHY recently released their new CMOS colour APS-C sized colour cameras as well, QHY165C - 16Mp 12bit, QHY168C- 16Mp 14 bit and QHY247C 24Mp 14bit. One of those are based on the D810 chip.
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  #3  
Old 15-03-2017, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdan View Post
QHY recently released their new CMOS colour APS-C sized colour cameras as well, QHY165C - 16Mp 12bit, QHY168C- 16Mp 14 bit and QHY247C 24Mp 14bit. One of those are based on the D810 chip.
It is the QHY367 that's based on the D810.
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  #4  
Old 15-03-2017, 11:58 PM
DJT (David)
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My wife has an 810 which I just know belongs on the back of my scope..sigh..
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  #5  
Old 16-03-2017, 12:03 AM
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For what it's worth, there is a rumour of a 46 MP Nikon D820. No timeline /validity?

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  #6  
Old 16-03-2017, 10:14 AM
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Colour only, for now.
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  #7  
Old 16-03-2017, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveller View Post
Colour only, for now.
Unfortunately only color for now. All the same I cannot wait to see how a cooled version of this sensor performs. My D810 produced great quality images at iso1600 and the D810a is apparently even better. Provided the noise is well managed this camera is going to produce some fantastic detail.

Think I will check out the QHY367 as well.
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  #8  
Old 20-03-2017, 03:16 PM
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QHYCCD have their 810a 367MC for $4400USD and the ZWO will not be that much more or less in price. It's only a matter of time before we see a 50meg + FF chip with no IR cut filter. FYI, I will be beta testing the QHYCCD 367 shortly.
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  #9  
Old 20-03-2017, 03:42 PM
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These are Sony sensors and really nothing to do with Nikon except for the fact that Sony supplies Nikon these sensors. I just read where Sony is not going to supply Nikon with its more specific sensors anymore so a 46mp Sony Exmor sensor in a D820 is unlikely (42.4mp more likely but that's the Sony A7r2 sensor).

The Sony Exmor 36mp CMOS sensor as used in the Nikon D800/D810 and Sony A7r is an amazing sensor. Its a 35mm sensor (36x25mm or so).

I have used 2 digital cameras with that sensor - the Nikon D800e and the Sony A7r. Nikon implemented that sensor a bit better than Sony did. Better looking noise grain and no stupid hot pixel suppression that damages stars like Nikon used to do several years ago.

Its quite low noise especially at higher ISOs. I think its around 5 microns or more in pixel size (42,4mp backlit Sony A7r2 sensor is 4.88 microns, has a read noise of well under 1 electron at higher ISOs (like ISO1600) and a very high QE. But it suffers a bit from thermal colour noise and the 36mp sensor has a bit of amp glow.

If there were a mono version it would be more attractive as Bayer matrixes really rob the sensor of sensitivity.

The Sony 42.4mp backlit sensor would be hot if it were in mono. Wow, that would be quite a camera.

If QHY or ZWO get mono versions then this will seriously dent the traditional CCD cooled cameras. They would most likely be superior to the CCD models currently on the market. The current Sony A7r2 sensor would for sure.

Greg.
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Old 20-03-2017, 04:47 PM
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This is the chip ZWO and QHY should try and get, and as Greg says they will corner the market.

It is the Nikon Monochrome FX format (36x24mm) used in their DS-QI2 microscope camera.

4908x3264 pixels
7.3 micron
60,000e full well
2.2e Read noise
QE is 80% at 500nm (great for OIII, a bit weak at Ha)

We can only hope
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  #11  
Old 20-03-2017, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdan View Post
This is the chip ZWO and QHY should try and get, and as Greg says they will corner the market.

It is the Nikon Monochrome FX format (36x24mm) used in their DS-QI2 microscope camera.

4908x3264 pixels
7.3 micron
60,000e full well
2.2e Read noise
QE is 80% at 500nm (great for OIII, a bit weak at Ha)

We can only hope
G'day Bill,

The QE of that chip in the 657.3Nm range is way too low for recording Ha regions as Ha is not below that. No doubt ZWO and QHYCCD would be aware of many sensors, but right now, my guess is they're aiming for the Ha CCD market like the Nikon 810a has for its DSLR astro market. I use an 810a and swear by it. Can't wait to see the cooled CCD versions to come out.
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Old 20-03-2017, 10:57 PM
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It is certainly low at the Ha end of town.
So what determines the QE of the camera is it the surrounding electronics or the chip. As the QE graph is of the camera and maybe not applicable to the chip. Maybe Nikon deliberately tuned the QE this way for microscopic usage.

I agree about the 810a but that's colour, and its unlikely ZWO or QHY are going to scrape off the Bayer film to make it mono.

Last edited by billdan; 20-03-2017 at 11:07 PM.
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  #13  
Old 21-03-2017, 08:40 AM
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At 40% QE for Ha on that graph that is already higher than many astro CCDs. KAI11002 which is popular is only 30% QE in Ha and there are plenty of excellent nebula images using that sensor.

40% is not bad QE for Ha.

That original Facebook link just keeps scrolling on and on. Is there a specific link to the new camera announcement?

Greg.
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  #14  
Old 21-03-2017, 02:16 PM
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Popular KAF-8300 has about 44% QE in Halpha, and the king of CCDs KAF-16803 has about 45% QE for the same wavelength.
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  #15  
Old 21-03-2017, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
At 40% QE for Ha on that graph that is already higher than many astro CCDs. KAI11002 which is popular is only 30% QE in Ha and there are plenty of excellent nebula images using that sensor.

40% is not bad QE for Ha.

That original Facebook link just keeps scrolling on and on. Is there a specific link to the new camera announcement?

Greg.
QHYCCD are still in beta testing that camera and no official announcement has been made. Re Ha QE, I totally disagree. 40% QE is way too low. See the specs chart for the QHYCCD 367C which is the 810a chip. See this link. http://tinyurl.com/mqozl8o As your can see, QE for Ha is ~82%.

Last edited by Star Hunter; 21-03-2017 at 02:48 PM.
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  #16  
Old 21-03-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Star Hunter View Post
QHYCCD are still in beta testing that camera and no official announcement has been made. Re Ha QE, I totally disagree. 40% QE is way too low. See the specs chart for the QHYCCD 367C which is the 810a chip. See this link. http://tinyurl.com/mqozl8o As your can see, QE for Ha is ~82%.
That is relative QE (green peak at 100%) and not a true QE. If that sensor was to peak at ~70% then the Ha would really be 82*0.7=57.4%.

I just plucked the 70% QE number out of the air.
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  #17  
Old 21-03-2017, 05:13 PM
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Colour cameras are about 50% less sensitive than mono cameras because of the filters that are permanently placed on each pixel.

I honestly doubt that IMX094 reaches 40% QE in Halpha. Even if absolute QE is 70% for pixels with red filter, then this value would need to be divided by 4 because 3/4 of the pixels won't record any useful photons when this colour camera is used with a Halpha filter. I am assuming this chip has a Bayer matrix. So real QE is more like 15% at the most in Halpha for IMX094 that is used in QHY367c or 810a.
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  #18  
Old 22-03-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Slawomir View Post
Colour cameras are about 50% less sensitive than mono cameras because of the filters that are permanently placed on each pixel.

I honestly doubt that IMX094 reaches 40% QE in Halpha. Even if absolute QE is 70% for pixels with red filter, then this value would need to be divided by 4 because 3/4 of the pixels won't record any useful photons when this colour camera is used with a Halpha filter. I am assuming this chip has a Bayer matrix. So real QE is more like 15% at the most in Halpha for IMX094 that is used in QHY367c or 810a.

Yeah it really needs to be the mono version of the sensor. I was disappointed to see it was the colour sensor. Sony may not be willing to do low run mono versions unlike Panasonic.

I thought it might still be a good nightscape camera but at that price its too expensive for that and a bit bulky to use for that as well (it would need an external power source and a computer to run it).

So a cooled one shot colour sensor despite being 36mp full frame, is not that exciting for that sort of money.

Greg.
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  #19  
Old 22-03-2017, 09:00 AM
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The most game changing astro camera, released in the past year was the ZWO ASI1600MM-C (IMHO). Very cost effective, a good QE (60%) Mono sensor of reasonable size, with very low noise. A great choice in the DSLR price band. Improved price point and commercial access to sCMOS Mono sensors will likely be the next major breakthrough in QE performance.
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  #20  
Old 22-03-2017, 09:33 AM
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The most game changing astro camera, released in the past year was the ZWO ASI1600MM-C (IMHO).
There's nothing humble about it Glen.

Most times I see an image from this camera it is remarkable. For anyone wanting to flip from DSLR to Astro Cam, that's your guy !!!!

Best
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