Old Observer, Beginner Astrophotographer

[Crater101 (Warren)]

Hi Folks;

I’m looking for advice from those who can take mercy on a beginning astrophotographer. Visual observation is nothing new to me - been doing that for years - but astrophotography is. And I’m looking to test the waters. Setting up, balancing, polar alignment and the basics hold no fears for me; however I have two questions and while I realise that there is no firm 100% answer, I’m looking to ease my way into things as much as possible.


I have a HEQ5 Pro (Dual) mount, and an EB55 power bank that powers it (as well as dew heaters, and whatnot). I have a Canon 60D that has been modified for astrophotography work, and am the recent owner of a Williams Optics RedCat 51. Obviously, the 60D and RedCat are going to be the main workhorses while I get used to things, and they’ll be mounted on the HEQ5.



My questions are…


1 – Guiding equipment. I’m looking to add a small guidescope and camera, and am considering the Williams Optics Uniguide 32, paired with perhaps a ZWO ASI 120MM Mini. While I’m not locked in to these, they seem like a good pairing. What are the thoughts of the folks out there on these items?


2- Guiding Software. There is a lot of information out there, and no two people seem to go about things exactly the same way, with everyone having different requirements and preferences. As someone who understands which end of the telescope to look through but is a bit bedazzled by the many choices and setups, what’s the best beginner-friendly setup in terms of software? PHD2 seems to be the mainstay.


Any advice / comments / critique would be welcome.

[AstroViking (Steve)]

Hi Warren,

I can't speak for the WO/ZWO pairing, but I have an SVBony SV305 camera (colour, 2MPixel) paired with the SV165 scope (30mm aperture, 120mm FL) and it works really well for me. They're also considerably cheaper than the WO / ZWO offerings.

I use Ekos' internal guiding routines for guiding and it worked (literally) "out of the box" with the above gear.

Every man and his dog seems to go for PHD2, and I can understand way - as it's the most commonly used setup and there will be solutions to just about any problem you may run into.

Cheers,
V

[Crater101 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by AstroViking

Hi Warren,

I can't speak for the WO/ZWO pairing, but I have an SVBony SV305 camera (colour, 2MPixel) paired with the SV165 scope (30mm aperture, 120mm FL) and it works really well for me. They're also considerably cheaper than the WO / ZWO offerings.

I use Ekos' internal guiding routines for guiding and it worked (literally) "out of the box" with the above gear.

Every man and his dog seems to go for PHD2, and I can understand way - as it's the most commonly used setup and there will be solutions to just about any problem you may run into.

Cheers,
V

Many thanks. SVBony wasn't something that I'd thought much about, so I'll certainly have a bit more of a look at that option. Same for Ekos, again not something I'd considered.

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

Get the ZWO120MM Mini.

The simple reason, other than the fact that it is a very good camera in it's own right, it will allow you to expand into the ASI ecosytem should you want to - and it's a fabulous fit and forget way to aquire data.

BTW I paired mine with the SVBony 165 guide scope off ebay which was cheap and does the trick at shorter focal lengths. You can choose whatever looks nicest to you, they all have the same optics as far as I can tell.

[Crater101 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by AstroJunk

Get the ZWO120MM Mini.

The simple reason, other than the fact that it is a very good camera in it's own right, it will allow you to expand into the ASI ecosytem should you want to - and it's a fabulous fit and forget way to aquire data.

BTW I paired mine with the SVBony 165 guide scope off ebay which was cheap and does the trick at shorter focal lengths. You can choose whatever looks nicest to you, they all have the same optics as far as I can tell.

Funny, but having looked at that as a guide scope earlier, I was considering those two as a possible pairing. Hmmm...


Cheers!

[AstroViking (Steve)]

Yep, what AstroJunk said - the ZWO120mm-MINI is a good guide scope.

I was looking at getting one, but there was no stock anywhere when I was buying. (It's also monochrome, which makes it IMHO a better guide scope than the SV305.)

Cheers,
V

[xelasnave]

Try unguided first which helps you appreciate the mounts performance and to get it tracking as best it can before you add auto guiding... and I should know as I am still in that stage despite having three auto guide cameras and scopes but my mounts are rather well dialed in now and I know what they like and dont like.

But the funny thing is I find my unguided 30 second captures beat my terrible seeing ( nice and dark but real jumpy of late) and so I am in no hurry to incorporate auto guide...

You have a great set up for what is over us right now.

Alex

[Startrek (Martin)]

The general rule of thumb for your guiding set up should be based on a ratio between your main imaging scopes pixel scale and guide scope pixel scale or image scale. A good ratio is 4:1 or less

Pixel scale or image scale for both Main scope / imaging camera and guide scope / camera is calculated as follows -

Camera pixel size uM x 206.3 / focal length = Pixel or Image scale

There are quite a few good guiding programs around but to get started I’d recommend PHD2 , mainly for ease of use, reliability , excellent support and free. Multistar guiding has been a revelation for PHD2 over the past 12 months and has improved guiding performance in most cases

Avoid ST guiding connections as they don’t take full advantage of Ascom
Opt for pulse guiding or direct connection from guide camera to laptop ( PHD2 recommend Pulse Guiding connection via Ascom )

There are loads of guide scopes and guide cameras on the market and all work pretty well as long as you keep within the 4:1 image scale ratio

ZWO is a popular band of guide camera both mini versions and standard versions , always choose a mono guide camera over a colour due to vastly improved sensitivity and QE

If you decide to go with PHD2 and ZWO guide cameras I have written procedures for basic operation to get up and running

Good luck

[Crater101 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Try unguided first which helps you appreciate the mounts performance and to get it tracking as best it can before you add auto guiding... and I should know as I am still in that stage despite having three auto guide cameras and scopes but my mounts are rather well dialed in now and I know what they like and dont like.

But the funny thing is I find my unguided 30 second captures beat my terrible seeing ( nice and dark but real jumpy of late) and so I am in no hurry to incorporate auto guide...

You have a great set up for what is over us right now.

Alex

Thank you young man! I've been doing a little unguided work as you've suggested, and am finding it a mildly frustrating process. The results I'm getting aren't anything I'd be willing to share.



And as you say, setting a good foundation with what the mountcan do is a good place to start. Cheers!

[Crater101 (Warren)]

Martin, my thanks. You've clarified one issue that was on my mind...and given me much more to think about into the bargain!



I'd been looking at the ST connections and had wondered how best to configure things, and had briefly considered direct connection, but pulse guiding was something that I'd never considered. I need to do some more research, I see.


For the time being, I'll be using a modified 60D and (probably) the ZWO 120MM Mini through a small guidescope, once I get everything properly established.

[Startrek (Martin)]

Originally Posted by Crater101

Martin, my thanks. You've clarified one issue that was on my mind...and given me much more to think about into the bargain!



I'd been looking at the ST connections and had wondered how best to configure things, and had briefly considered direct connection, but pulse guiding was something that I'd never considered. I need to do some more research, I see.


For the time being, I'll be using a modified 60D and (probably) the ZWO 120MM Mini through a small guidescope, once I get everything properly established.

Warren,
Glad to assist
Pulse guiding is the only way to guide !!
Using PHD2 pulse guiding via Ascom allows you to save a good calibration for long time . Ive used the same calibration for nearly a year now, with ST4 you need to calibrate every time you image which is a real pain if your trying to save precious sky time for imaging. Also you can guide on both sides of the meridian using your saved calibration, ST you can’t , you have to recalibrate. There are many other benefits to pHD2 pulse guiding ( guide camera to laptop )
The PHD2 support group ( forum ) has excellent support ( and this forum too ) I haven’t had to many issues over the past 5 or 6 years using PHD2. Starting my journey wth a Canon 600D , HEQ5 mount and 6” newt , then a couple of EQ6-R mounts with an 8” newt and 2600MC to now owning an EQ8-R pro monster mount. PHD2 has been tremendous

Cheers
Martin

[AdamJL]

So I have two guiding setups.

1. ASI 290MM Mini with a 50mm SkyWatcher guidescope
2. Another ASI 290MM Mini with the William Optic 32mm guidescope

It's obvious, but the 50mm scope gives me much better star selection. It just lets more light in. With the WO I can tell the difference when I start taking frames compared to the other scope. It's dimmer, and stars aren't as punchy.
I also find getting focus with that scope a bit harder than the SkyWatcher

That said, it's a great size for a portable solution. But my advice would always be to go for more aperture, yes even on the guide scope.

As for the camera, the 120MM Mini is a good camera, but that 290MM is super super sensitive.

[Startrek (Martin)]

Originally Posted by AdamJL

So I have two guiding setups.

1. ASI 290MM Mini with a 50mm SkyWatcher guidescope
2. Another ASI 290MM Mini with the William Optic 32mm guidescope

It's obvious, but the 50mm scope gives me much better star selection. It just lets more light in. With the WO I can tell the difference when I start taking frames compared to the other scope. It's dimmer, and stars aren't as punchy.
I also find getting focus with that scope a bit harder than the SkyWatcher

That said, it's a great size for a portable solution. But my advice would always be to go for more aperture, yes even on the guide scope.

As for the camera, the 120MM Mini is a good camera, but that 290MM is super super sensitive.

Thumbs up to the 290MM
I use a 120MM standard in my Orion 60mm guide scope with helical focuser on both my 6” and 8” newts which work well at 3.9:1 guiding image scale.My new 10” f5 CF newt is a big long tube and most recommended an OAG for its 1250mm focal length but I decided to go guide scope again ( Orion 60mm again ). Due to minimal flexure in Carbon fibre and using the 290MM due it’s smaller pixels and maintaining a 4:1 guiding image scale, the 3 sessions I had so far have been good around 0.60 to 0.70 arc sec total. The 290MM has a much higher QE and sensitivity than the 120MM. Although being so sensitive, the 290MM does require good focus to get the best out of it. In PHD2 I use Gain 60 which equates to a Gain of 210 ( native driver ) which so far works well

Martin

[Crater101 (Warren)]

Martin, Adam;


Again my thanks. My aim with my setup is (for the time being at least) to be relatively portable. I live in a rural area (Bortle 3~4) but my view south / southwest is blocked by some large trees, and to the west my neighbours house doesn't help matters.


However, less than a five minute drive from where I am are two great spots for imaging and observing, one of them a little-used cricket field. So I'm aiming for portability as well.


Saving the calibration makes excellent sense, as does a wider aperture. I'm going to do a little reading on the PHD2 / Ascom side of things before I leap in. I had begun to take in a few You Tube videos on the topics, however while there is some good and relevant information that way, sifting the good from the misinformed, those who apparently leave out vital information, those who can't present what they know, and those who simply indulge in grandstanding ("Look how good I am!") can be painstaking when trying to get one's head around it all, particularly at the early stage I'm at.



I very much appreciate the information gentlemen!

[Visionary (David)]

Contact Testar, provide your spec an spend as much as you can afford. Astro gear is getting more expensive by the day, enjoy, buy big.

[Crater101 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by Visionary

Contact Testar, provide your spec an spend as much as you can afford. Astro gear is getting more expensive by the day, enjoy, buy big.

Ha. I'm going to print this out and show it to the wife...