Hello all.
I thought I'd jump into some telescopic adventures while i continue to heal.
I broke Both my legs last year and am getting around on a walkingstick but still
having issues...anyway, enough poor me...
I'd like some reasoned input on the difference between the Skywatcher 12 Goto
anf the Orion xt12g.
Obviously one is collapsible tube, one solid. Both SynSync.
The orion looks to have a better Dualspeed Focuser, but to my newb research, worse
included eyepieces. I have no idea about mirror diffs, chime in if ya know.
Orion is $2000. atm and the Skywatcher $2300
3 hunj is an eyepiece or 2, or cheap kit with filters and a few sizes to get the viewing underway.
Yes im a bit broken, but am used to carrying chainsaws up steep hills and the like so not worried 'bout moving a Lil' 12inch around.
Vision or value between the two?
Which one and why please my new friends.
P.S. i found Giza Capstone. It is an artifact of perspective. It and allseeingeye say same thing... LINEAR PERSPECTIVE to and of the Vanishing Point of human Perception.
Look at them not as pyramids but Roads streching away...the CAPSTONE isnt missing. Its the Vanishing Point. Where the railway lines disappear before they touch. Allseeingeye...is just graffiti OVER the sun above a Road. No pyramid there whatsoever...
They are pretty similar having come out of the same factory.
Orion may be slightly better build quality.
Optics are similar.
Flex-tube is easier to move around than solid, but then you may need to buy a shroud.
Orion focuser is better.
And that is a pretty good price.
Orion has red dot finder (non magnified)
SW has a 9x50 finder scope. (right angled for comfort is best)
(I have both (RDF and finder scope) and use them in conjunction)
Eyepieces are similar and reasonably good quality.
I think the Orion has only 12 month warranty where SW seems to be 5 year warranty.
Thanks Alan.
I tried a few google searches but forgot to search 'here'.
You have told me about all i need to know. The Orion would be Shipped from Nsw, the Skywatcher i could pick up in Brisvegas...mmmm
5 year warranty will get them the sale. I did take note of that.
I could get the Skywatcher 14 pc eyepiece n acc. Kit for $200 from same shop...
I think $2500 for scope and total of 7 eyepieces isn't bad at all. Providing the kit ep's are half reasonable quality, i should be able to live with that quite well.
If only the wife could...time to grovel... or just do it and spend some time in the doghouse.
Now off to look at some more sketches of what i can hope to see.
A section in the Pics of Human View would be good. Cameras show so much with long exposures and thats all the pics ya see, sorry astrophoto guys, but too many photos spoil the real thing...
Anyone got a quick link to REALISTIC pics. Ya know, comprable to what We see?
I have a 12" GTO SkyWatcher with a Moonlight focuser also a trolly covered in foam as to avoid scratches, all for $2000:00 or near offer.
PM me for details if interested,
I am on the Sunshine coast Hinterland, but the scope is at a different location.
But can arrange a viewing if you require it.
Cheers
Thanks for the offer Ron. I will have a talk with wife today if the hyper kids give us two seconds alone. Lol.
I see u are a serious am/strom, and very near to me. I was at Imbil for a few years, I'm just north now but outta town n dark.
Is there gallery of Pics that have only been exposed long enough to show human Perspective. Even scope sellers have Long exposure pics on their sites.
I found a thread yesterday where a young fella flew off the handle when he finally got a look through a 16, 'its just two dots of light' he was all but screaming and crying...obviously didnt no 95% of pics are Looong exp.
I would appreciate even 4 or 5 pics of neb, clust, gal, or twin stars...
CrazyGiza, looking through the eyepiece and seeing what we see needs a little technique and patience. Just a quick look by a random inexperienced user rarely gives a wow factor, unless it's the bands of Jupiter or rings of Saturn. I've looked through some big scopes and they can be pretty impressive but it often takes a little time to see what's there. The whole point of a big big scope after all is not to look at the big bright things that can be seen just as well with a small scope, but to go for faint fuzzies.
If I were you, I'd look up electronically assisted astronomy...there are some cams on the market now with super sensitive sensors that work well with goto setups that don't require an equatorial mount, and software (like Sharpcap) that stack a series of short frames as time passes. By short frames, we're talking a few seconds, so that field rotation doesn't impact each frame. Also lookup lucky imaging, using the same cameras some folk are producing some pretty amazing results.
Thanks Cam.
I can appreciate the warning for patience. When i read the kids coplaint about two dots i instantly started thinking he wouldnt of had dark adapted eyesight, we dont know about focus, moonlight or how much light pollution he had to deal with...
I just thought some of you may have taken some snaps at different exposures/time and upon viewing found some that most closely replicate what YOU see at the eyepiece.
It will be something i will definitely be doing so i can say to any who ask Me about astronomy in the future that here, 'this is what you can expect M51 to look like at 175x and suchnsuch viewing/observing conditions...'
You know, get them excited but with realistic pics. Of course long exposure fotostacking has its place but after reading that small journey of dissapointment written by a young man with unrealistic expectations... well, i went looking for pics and cant Find many that show and state they are a realistic eyepiece view.
Thousands of high colour massive stacked stitched frankenfoto pics everywhere...
Just saying, not hating on anyone. I enjoy those colourful pics as much as anyone but i aviod them a little... i am all about MY perspective after discovering the Giza Capstone in my queensland backyard!
Clear skies my fellow OBSERVERs
CentaurusA galaxy through a 10" newt, the planets uranus, jupiter and saturn and the moon through a 180mm mak cassegrain (these are only single shots at prime focus and are much sharper looking through an eyepiece)
Location is more important than anything in my opinion. I have spotted more galaxies and planetary nebula with my 5.1" refractor under dark skies in a single night than my 10", 12" & 16" scopes combined over the years from Melbourne.
On my first trip to a dark site with my previous 5.1" refractor I spotted the Mag 11 Antennae Galaxies, never been able to spot them with my 16" dob in Melbourne.
Worth checking out whether you can do prime focus photography with
the Orion scope if you decide to go that way, as most Newtonians do not allow it, but all Skywatcher Newts do.
raymo
Thank you very much doppler, much appreciated.
The sketching thread is great, I'll have more of a look later.
Atmos, I'm 10k sw gympie, no lights for miles over 300 degrees. 1 neighbor 250m downhill, another 300m on another hill, and behind him just a couple of lights at very top of hospital in town visible, not much of a town to glow. Sunny coast has a barely perceptible glow on horizon sw.
Should be good enough on the Dark front i hope.
I think i will go Skywatcher 12. I still cant work, need painkillers just to get on feet to offer wife not much help with house and kids(4, 10m). Had to let rego slip on my 4wd and i cant afford rego or push and hold clutch in anyway, so i'll sell it and buy a scope. Not much Optimism i know l, but 13 months on and still a broken useless Forestry Labourer that doesnt know if he will get back to dropping, millin' and slinging timber... better buy a scope before i get pensionized and left leanin on my walking stick for life...
Wow, now im depressed again. Need to light one up and look at some stars, crank some Disturbed through the ipod...scotch is a rich mans drink...I'll have the water if its free..
Worth checking out whether you can do prime focus photography with
the Orion scope if you decide to go that way, as most Newtonians do not allow it, but all Skywatcher Newts do.
raymo
I see nothing in his post about wanting to take pictures
He just wants to get some idea as to what he would see Visually
through a 12" scope.
I as a long time observer really don't think you can give a definite view
of what one can see in any scope as there are a myriad things that make up the view from one observer to another.
It will take looking at a number of objects throughout the observing session/s
before the new observer can get a reasonable idea as to the value of what he/she is looking at, and is that view any where near what they would like to spend their money on.
I have a dark sky site here and a 16" scope but even that doesn't impress some people who expect to see more.
They have seen too many beautiful pictures and expect to see something like it through the big scope.
But then of course there are the ones who just wont let go of the scope
I still don't think a Small scope of what ever construction, cuts it when looking at Omega Centuri compared to looking through a large scope,to me there is no comparison.
Observing is a skill learnt, something you can acquire over a short period,it takes practice and dare I say it dedication.
Cheers
I havent mentioned astrophoto, but the option has swayed me to the skywatcher.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about variables astron, and some peoples expectations.
I think the sketches threads are a good indicator, but every night can be differnt, as is every eye.But for a sample of what can be expected of say the same object through different size scopes its handy.
Time is what I've got atm. I'll get the/a scope and worry about camera's when I'm back earning. And yes i understand that a goto dob is not prime choice for photo, but it allows a wetting of the toe, before the expensive plunge into cameras and dedicated imaging scopes, $5k eq mounts and on n on...
I'll send you another pm during the week ron. I understand it is for sale and would expect you to sell to the first person to offer you the right fistfull of fifties, but i am interested. I wasnt thinking 2nd hand after laughing at gumtree ads, but i shall throw some research at how the goto's hold up... i only see the warranty being worth the new price for the goto side of things.
I haven't received any PM's as yet but will look forward to catching up with you.
I haven't properly advertised the scope yet so no worries as yet.
Cheers
Sorry astron, i tried to send you pm this morning, still getting to know the site. I have to keep signing in every half hour.
The pm was just to say i was interested and would talk with wife over next day or two. I was wondering what version synsync and if there was any warranty left on it. I had thought a 5y warranty would only benefit a technical prob with the goto, only one or two shops offer the 5, most just 1. A 1y warranty is a joke but 5 isnt to be sneezed at knowing how some manufacturers save costs with weak motor, cheaper brittle plastics etc...
The moonlite focuser looks a nice piece of kit. I had thought i'd upgrade that if i went Skyw. Do you still have the 2 stock Ep's with it? And focuser while im asking. (Bits and bobs, spares and extras lead to building my own scope for giggles)
I will send you a pm and a quick word here (in case pm dont go) after i get a chance to talk with wife and juggle some numbers, was gonna bust out the creditcard for a scope.
Ron, in my time on this forum I have seen a number of disappointed
members who have bought dobs/newts, and decided to take some pics,
only to find that they can't. I think the fact that he hasn't expressed a
desire to up to now is irrelevant. He may decide to further down the track;
its a bit late then to find out that he can't.
raymo
Sorry astron, i tried to send you pm this morning, still getting to know the site. I have to keep signing in every half hour.
The pm was just to say i was interested and would talk with wife over next day or two. I was wondering what version synsync and if there was any warranty left on it. I had thought a 5y warranty would only benefit a technical prob with the goto, only one or two shops offer the 5, most just 1. A 1y warranty is a joke but 5 isnt to be sneezed at knowing how some manufacturers save costs with weak motor, cheaper brittle plastics etc...
The moonlite focuser looks a nice piece of kit. I had thought i'd upgrade that if i went Skyw. Do you still have the 2 stock Ep's with it? And focuser while im asking. (Bits and bobs, spares and extras lead to building my own scope for giggles)
I will send you a pm and a quick word here (in case pm dont go) after i get a chance to talk with wife and juggle some numbers, was gonna bust out the creditcard for a scope.
Clear skies folks...
You need to tick the box along side your name to keep you logged in.
When you have finally worked out how to make a PM and have talked to the wife send me a PM and if you like a phone number or I can give you my number and we can discuss things a lot easier than on here.
Hi all. After a chat with wifey, I think i should take advantage of my local (astropete) shops ability to supply a 5y warranty.
Focuser and Ep's are easy to acquire at any time, but the piece of mind a 5y warranty gives to an electronic/motorised product is priceless( but only a few dollars more than 2nd hand really).
So a NEW scope it will be. I'll research dobsonian applications of Video Assisted Astro before purchase. I just read the stickied thread on AV astro with a cheap cam n tablet, interesting... great for when a few people are around and for self. I can easily wait 1 or 3 minutes for an autostack of quick exposure's to show more detail. Its a frankenfoto in real time, at the scope so to speak. And you can pop an ep back in anytime, i think?
So thanks all, if you have a link to some primetive dob av or live capture, drob it below and I'll give it a read too.
Dunk and Ron have touched on the subject of training your eyes. After getting a few years in the hobby under my belt I can see what people mean by this. Just getting your eye in the right spot over the eyepiece in the dark can take some practice. What you see in the eyepiece is usually very small and / or faint and in the beginning I found it tricky just to keep my eye focused properly. Over time I noticed I was able to see more and more detail in what I was observing and it just became easier in general. Techniques such as averted vision also sometimes need to be used.
The best thing I found about all this is that it wasn’t something I had to be thinking about. It was simply a case of the more I observed, the easier it got.
I’m almost a purely visual observer (99.9%) and I found sketches a good way to get an idea for what I will see in the eyepiece.
Why let those photons that have traveled such a long way end up hitting a sensor rather than your own eye I say.
