Using downloaded starcharts!?!?!

[ThunderChild (Chris)]

Hey all,

Just when I thought I was getting somewhere, I have to come back to the Beginner's forum and ask another really dumb question. *blush*


So far, I've been having fun via use of the stellarium program - but I realise that I need to start using starcharts/planisphere if I'm going to get better established.
There are free skycharts as published in the sticky in this forum - http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zs3t-tk/atlas/atlas.htm.

I have access to a very decent A3 printer (and probably even a laminating machine if needed). I've printed out all the sheets supplied on the website. They come out great indeed!

Only problem is that I can't figure out how they're supposed to be used. The brief instructions on the page suggest that you only need to use a N/S pair at one time (eg 6N and 6S glued back to back). However, the field of view suppied on each sheet seems smaller than what we see when we look up (or is that just an illusion?).

Also, do any starcharts out there exist from the perspective of the Southern Hemisphere? I know I could hold it upside down, but it's nice to see the labels the right way up.

Has anyone used these charts? Any tips on how they're meant to be used?
I'm also considering drawing faint lines to show the constellations on the charts, because that seems easier for me for some reason. Not sure if that's a dumb idea though...

Chris

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

I don't know about the ones you're using, but I know that the newish Tirion Star Charts are laminated and oriented for the Southern Hemisphere, and they cost less that $20 from places like Bintel, My Astro Shop, etc. I find them the perfect scale for most things (binocular or small telescope).

(The Herald-Bobroff Astroatlas is also oriented for the Southern Hemisphere, but I doubt that's what you want at the moment.)

Cheers,

Brian.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Except the Tirion charts show some DSOs like galaxies in red! So you can't see them at night under a red torch.

Chris, each chart will show just a portion of the sky. You have a spherical coordinate system with right ascention in hours (0 to 24 corresponding to 0 to 360 degrees around the celestial equator) and declination (-90 to 90 degrees as measured from the cel. equator to cel. poles). The charts should have these marked from which you can figure out how they join up to cover the whole sky.

You cannot have charts that are the "right way up" all the time because the sky is looks different at different times of the year and at different times during the night; e.g., right now, the Southern Cross is "upside down" after sunset but it is the "right way up" by dawn.

[rmcpb (Rob)]

Chris,

Have you tried the simple Chandler planisphere from Bintel for $21? I have found no need for anything better and have been using the same one now for about 4 years so they really last and are great value for money.

Cheers

[Starcrazzy]

Hey chriss...I knew you'd be back with this question soon...Here is a link to some free software...now, get the one called c2a, and also the french one cartes duiel(sky charts)...Both are similar to stellarium only alot more configable and for a more advanced user..you can oriantate by using the horizon still, thats the great part..but they also have detailed info on thousands of dso's..Even if you buy some chartes, you are still going to be wanting to know WHAT your looking at...all the ifo can be printed out for each objsct you plan to view, with detailed skychartes that you can config to suit you...I use both quite regularly..

here's the link...there's also heaps of other good stuff there too
http://freeware.intrastar.net/planetarium.htm

[ThunderChild (Chris)]

Originally Posted by janoskiss

Chris, each chart will show just a portion of the sky. You have a spherical coordinate system with right ascention in hours (0 to 24 corresponding to 0 to 360 degrees around the celestial equator) and declination (-90 to 90 degrees as measured from the cel. equator to cel. poles). The charts should have these marked from which you can figure out how they join up to cover the whole sky.

Thanks for your help everyone. I should have made my question a little clearer...

I can see how the maps fit together, but I'm not sure how to know which map will be needed for a particular section of sky on any given day/hour (or is that just too complicated?)
Is there anyway of knowing which one will be of use or that just something that has to come with time? (for instance is "0 hrs" directly above Greenwich at midnight - which would make 10 hrs directly above Melb at midnight during EST? ..... or something like that?)

I'm sure I could just get one out at random and back-track from there, but I like to know how things work.

Originally Posted by janoskiss

You cannot have charts that are the "right way up" all the time because the sky is looks different at different times of the year and at different times during the night; e.g., right now, the Southern Cross is "upside down" after sunset but it is the "right way up" by dawn.

That's true, but if I'm not mistaken, charts that are flipped will more often look correct for anything in the northern sky? ie - I've never seen Orion the "right way up" before.

I'm sure I'll get used to flipping things in my head. I had the sudden realisation the other night that I was moving my telescope 'the opposite way' - ie I was compensating for things being reversed without being conscious of it.

[ThunderChild (Chris)]

Whoops - one more thing I meant to ask.
I live at a latitude of around -37. From here, is there a maximum useful declination I can see?

Looking at Toshimi Taki's starcharts, the southern charts go from around +20 to -90. Is there any need for me to print out the northern charts?
I'm planning on laminating and binding them and the set may as well be more compact if I can't see much higher than +20...

[Wombat_In_Space (Darren)]

Originally Posted by ThunderChild

I can see how the maps fit together, but I'm not sure how to know which map will be needed for a particular section of sky on any given day/hour (or is that just too complicated?)
Is there anyway of knowing which one will be of use or that just something that has to come with time? (for instance is "0 hrs" directly above Greenwich at midnight - which would make 10 hrs directly above Melb at midnight during EST? ..... or something like that?)

I'm sure I could just get one out at random and back-track from there, but I like to know how things work.


That's true, but if I'm not mistaken, charts that are flipped will more often look correct for anything in the northern sky? ie - I've never seen Orion the "right way up" before.

I'm sure I'll get used to flipping things in my head. I had the sudden realisation the other night that I was moving my telescope 'the opposite way' - ie I was compensating for things being reversed without being conscious of it.

Chriss you could do what I did for my daughter so she can use my star charts, I drew some of the major constellations on transparence film so she could lay them onto of the charts to help work out what she was seeing in the sky.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Get a planisphere to get an overview of the whole sky. ($20-odd from Bintel) This you can set to time and date to show you a map of the sky from your perspective. Then you can go to the charts from there to see more detail.

For around $25 the Southern Sky Guide is also a good investment and a bit less intimidating than a set of big charts without any commentary. It's got mag 6.5 charts + enough DSOs to keep you busy for quite some time.

You're correct about carts at 20+ degree latitude; you won't need them for where you are.

[Starcrazzy]

yea there is a way..use those programmes i gave you..it doesn't get any easier or any more accurate..you just enter your location and away you go..you don'y have to make it hard on yourself, unless you want to feel like a big time scientist...lol

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

I second janoskiss' recomendation on the Southern Sky Guide. Once you learn how to use it to it fullest capabilities it's a fantastic book. It's not as comprehensive as the Cambridge Star Atlas but at least everything is up the right way.

[RAJAH235]

Use 'Cartes Du Ceil' & you can print any chart you want...
http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/ L.
ps. What's wrong with rotating the chart to suit the sky, after checking with your 'Planisphere'?
pps. Made a rotating tray for my Herald Bobroff's. Bit heavy 'n bulky to hold overhead....

[Starcrazzy]

hey laurie,

Ive been telling him about that for weeks...lol...don't know what people have against free software..anyway, still on for thursday?

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Nothing against free software, but preparing high quality charts is still a time consuming exercise. (All I ever use is free software -- actual free software not stolen/pirated stuff -- from the OS to everyday applications to specialised tools: all free.)

I do use planetarium software to plan observing sessions, especially for solar system objects. But for deep sky, you can't beat top quality ready-made charts. (You don't need to be a pretend "scientist" to use one. If you were one then all you'd use is computers and would never look through an eyepiece.)

I don't like taking computers along with me to a dark site. I would not mind if it was for astrophotography, but for visual I want to keep it simple.

[RAJAH235]

Not sure why it gets so complicated.. Loads of apps avail..
Yep, 7.30ish start. L.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by RAJAH235

Not sure why it gets so complicated.. Loads of apps avail..

That's precisely why. So much choice, it's confusing. And individual opinions will vary on what is best. Chris, you've been bombarded with more than enough info by now. Best to try out some options and find out what works for you. All roads lead to Rome...

[Starcrazzy]

Yes, i didn't mean to offend..but to a beginner, even the very best star chart is nothing but cryptic..you don't need to take a computer out observing with you, you can print(not overly scientific)..And i have found that using a programme such as cartes duiel makes it a heck of a lot easier to orrientate the bigger bought(or printed )star charts to your local sky..how many beinners do you think have been discouraged by silly things like not being able to understand a simple skychart..what a shame when the free stuff(not pirated) is so simple and with just one glance orientates the senses with the heavens..

[ThunderChild (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Starcrazzy

Ive been telling him about that for weeks...lol...don't know what people have against free software.

i didn't mean to offend..

Hi Starcrazzy, No offence ever taken. If I was easily offended, I wouldn't dare ask such dumb questions!
FWIW, I actually did download the software you suggested when you first suggested it. I have been really grateful for your help (and of everyone's).
The stellarium program you suggested was an especially great suggestion for me (did I mention that there's a more up-to-date version if you go to the home page instead of the link on this site?)

My problem with the two pieces of software you mention is that I wasn't able to get anything out that looked really decent. I am almost certain that I wasn't using it correctly, and haven't had the chance (yet) to have a really good play around with it. It also didn't help that cartes duiel's help system is written in French - so if you can't see what to do, then you're in trouble.
I will persist (haven't given up on them!).
In fact, now that I have had a good look at the PDF star-charts (and know more about them), I reckon I'd have a much better chance at using the software properly.

BTW, I am a huge lover of free (legal) software and o/s's. And when I can't find what I need, I have the bad habit of writing my own!