Calling all nagler owners!

asimov (John) · #1 02-08-2005, 09:24 PM

Have I got your attention? lol

Guys, I've been asking myself this question for a long time now...now it's time to ask the people that actually have one, & therefore know more than me about them.

1 What's so good about a Nagler? If I bought one, is it going to double my viewing pleasure? Are they a wide view EP only? I've never seen a 5mm nagler, for instance. Is it a 'status' thing to own one. Or do they just produce an 'out of this world' view over a standard EP that to own one is a must?

2 It seems to be common knowledge that their the best EP that money can buy. Now I wanna know WHY....is it the glass the elements are made of? The design? The # of elements?

I do hope you take the time to answer some of these questions, thanks so much!

davidpretorius · #2 02-08-2005, 09:36 PM

this will sort them out!!! - good question!!

Argonavis (William) · #3 02-08-2005, 09:45 PM

I only own 1 Nagler eyepeice - the 12mm, so my experience is limited. They offer very wide fields of view which is very useful for owners of altaz push-to scopes as following an object at high (anything over about x250) power can be very tedious if all you have is a narrow field of view. Although scopes with dobsonain type bearings can be moved very smoothly, it is still tedious, and I find that I spend more time concentrating on keeping the object in the field of view rather than taking in the view. So if you use a scope without a drive you will find them very convenient.
They are also optimised to minimise coma, which is evident in telescopes with a "fast" focal ratio of f6 or below. As you are probably aware, the focal ratio is the focal length (mm) divided by the aperature (mm). The view through an f4 or f5 scope with a cheap wide field eyepeice reveals that a significant portion of the edge has stars that look like comets. Not nice. But if you own a slow f ratio scope, like an SCT at f10, then all eyepeices will provide a flat field of view with almost pinpoint stars across it. I use a WideScan 30mm 84degree FOV eyepeice with my Mease SCT and it is super. It costs a fraction of the $1000 asking price of a Nagler 31mm, and does an excellent job with these telescopes.
Another problem with the naglers is that there is a lot of glasss in there, so light transmission is not as good as some simpler eyepeices. A good planetary eyepeice is a simple plossel, of which I find the Televue Plossels the best.
The best advise is to try and borrow various eyepeices (if you can get someone to part with a Nagler, good luck) and try them in your scope.

jackenau · #4 02-08-2005, 10:12 PM

own only 2 (thanks Dave) and a Panoptic 35mm, apart from your standard plossels and a 30mm sv from Bintel.

The view in the 35mm Panoptic as opposed to the 30mm sv is a lot clearer and no distortion or seagull effects towards the outer edge, I would use and recommend the 35 mm panoptic more than any other ep (but that is just me). The 30mm sv still gives out good views though, although not as crisp.

The 9mm plossel as opposed to the 9mm Nagler is like chalk and cheese.

The 16mm is a little different and I sometimes struggle to come to come to terms with it. Don't always get the views I would have expected.

Just my 2 cents worth. I have a 12" f5 dob, and don't wear glasses, if that has anything to do with it.

Ken M

Starkler (Geoff) · #5 02-08-2005, 10:12 PM

Putting it briefly.

Yes they are good for well corrected wide field viewing, especially in fast scopes where others do not perform. Some naglers are better than others so all are not equal.

As for whether they are worth the high price tag, nobody can answer that for you as the value proposition is a personal thing. The only way to answer this is to look for yourself.

ving (David) · #6 03-08-2005, 09:18 AM

I dont have a nagler myself but I have used louies 16mm and compared it directly to my GSO SV 15mm. I was viewing the helix neb unfiltered at linden. the naglers FOV was larger and good to the edge, the view in the center of the FOV was a little more contrasty but I couldnt justify several hundred dollars more to buy one. the GSOs FOV was lighter in colour and just at the outer edge (about 3%) there was seagulling. both could be focused to a crisp image. so the nagler is better for sure but in my mind not hundreds of dollars better. do take into account that i am very tight with my money tho....

that said, i am considering a wide FOV 9mm or 7mm ATM

oh and the above "review" is in my f6 8" dob

Dave47tuc (David) · #7 03-08-2005, 09:30 AM

I have a 31 Nagler and 12 Nagler.

I find it hard to explain how good high end EP's are. I rate Pentax's, Tele Vue,
Great wide field EP's. There others that do a good to very good job as well.

So why do people say "oh get a Nagler" there the best. There probably more Tele Vue EP's owned around the world than any other high end EP.
So you will get more saying by a Nagler etc.

I used my 31 ( see below) to do a Open Cluster tour last night and at a 2 Deg, field of view it was great. Geoff used a 31 in his scope some time ago and now owns one

I too finally have one and love it

When the Star Camp in Victoria is on I will be there. For those who have never had a Nagler in there scope, You can use mine and see for yourself what its like to own a Nagler. Then you will buy one

Yes I'm the first to say Naglers are not the be all to end all, but there very good. There not cheap and a Panoptic is in my opinion is just as good.

Starkler (Geoff) · #8 03-08-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ving

the GSOs FOV was lighter in colour and just at the outer edge (about 3%) there was seagulling.

This is another variable to throw into the equation. Different peoples eyes seem to have varying sensitivity to coma and abberations. I could see abberations toward the edge of field in Daves 12mm nagler that he could not.

For me the GSO SV was horrible, with any of the field greater than that of a standard plossl showing objectionable abberations, even at f7.5 in my ED80.
Vings comment above about the GSO having a lighter background indicates lesser contrast, even at a slightly higher mag.

The moral is that a cheaper eyepiece may be good enough for you, but not for the next man.

P.S. Yes the panoptics are also very good

mch62 (Mark) · #9 03-08-2005, 10:08 AM

The best answer to this would be to try them for your self.

I own a 31mm 17mm and 12mm and am amazed at the reactions at star parties to peoples first view through a Nagler , especially the big 31.

You have to be there to understand and hear the sound effects.

I can still remember my first look .

I have owned Meade , Celestron , a Pentax ,GSO's and the 30mm Andrews plus plossels and Orthoscopics and also have Radians , and while some of the cheaper brands work very well in slower focal ratios the Televue's Naglers excel in all focal ratios down to f4 or lower and the whole FOV is virtual usable.
There not 100% perfect with some better than others but there is nothing that matches the usuable 82deg field.

As to weather there worth up to several times the price of a cheaper brand , that will depend on *** you *** and your expectations and what scope your putting it in.

A total beginner won't be forking out more for one eyepiece than what there scope is worth but if your scope is in the many thousand $ bracket it is more appropriate.

Remember that the eyepiece is half the optical train.

One thing for sure these are more of an investment in optical quality rather than just another eyepiece.
There not one that you will sell in a few months looking for better.
Stricker excepted here.LOL

I still have a GSO but it is used in an F7.5 refractor and as a finder eyepiece and works well for that scope.

Love me Naglers and Radians.

P.S. from a very good optician friend of mine it would supprise you how many people have some form of astigmatisim even thou they don't wear or need glasses and didn't even know it.
At high power and a small exit pupil astigmatism is generaly not a problem but low power large exit pupil , wide field star points will suffer from little spikes or ill formed stars.
This could account for one viewer seeing an abberation that some one else doesn't and some mistake for coma or eyepiece aberations.
I have just had contacts made with astigmatism correction for my dominant eye and find viwing even more enjoyable.

TV now make a lens to fit the top there long eye relief eyepieces just for this very same problem

ving (David) · #10 03-08-2005, 10:56 AM

yup like said above. naglers are better. if I could buy one I would, but I just cant justify the expense and theres too many other things i want to buy... I'll probably get one eventually tho.
the GSO SV have little eye relief BTW.

ving (David) · #11 03-08-2005, 11:03 AM

oh, and i have heard very good reviews on speers-waller wide angle EP. they are cheaper than TVs

mch62 (Mark) · #12 03-08-2005, 11:09 AM

With the GSO's I used a GSO 2x barlow with the 2"30 and 40SV's to retain the good eyerelief of those eyepieces but giving the mag of the 15 or 20.
Bit like A Nagler does

ving (David) · #13 03-08-2005, 11:29 AM

I think the GSO SVs have 68 degree FOV too, not the 82 of nagler. something else to take into consideration

ving (David) · #14 03-08-2005, 11:42 AM

heres a review on cloudy nights... 10mm speers-waler vs 9mmt1 nagler
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=276

mch62 (Mark) · #15 03-08-2005, 01:25 PM

Ever noticed how many reviews are done with a Televue eyepiece for comparison

??

ving (David) · #16 03-08-2005, 01:41 PM

yeah, they are certainly more popular hey?

dhumpie · #17 03-08-2005, 02:57 PM

Well corrected, super contrasty ultra wide field views in super fast scopes. That sums up the Naglers. Just wish I had the money (and approval from the boss) to get some. But for now I will continue to enjoy Andrew's (astro_south's)...

Darren

asimov (John) · #18 03-08-2005, 05:47 PM

Thank you gentlemen! I think I get the picture. Their the best widefield EP out there for F5 & under. Yell out when they have a price drop of 50% will ya?

The reason they work so well is obvious...almost perfect correction to counter- act coma. (at F5 and faster)

Sounds like TV pan's run a close second...Is a pan cheaper than a nagler?

rumples riot · #19 03-08-2005, 06:12 PM

All Televue Eyepieces are very good, Yes they are better than any EP I have looked through include Pentax and Meade 5000 series. They are not a status symbol, they actually are the best. I own a good range of TV Eps and they are way above all the other EP's I own.

Pans are more expensive than Naglers BTW.

Incidently, only people who don't own TV EP's give them a less than perfect rap. Funny that. Wannabees.

asimov (John) · #20 03-08-2005, 06:37 PM

Not sure how to phrase my next question....I can not afford any high end EPs such as nagler's..or should I say, I can't justify spending that much money on 1 EP...Is there such a thing as a 'mid-range' of EPs that work great at F5? You just mentioned Pentax & meade 5000 series Paul, would you put those 2 into the mid-range category? To put it bluntly, any suggestions on a particular brand of EP that work nearly as good as a nagler (@ F/5)...but costing way less?