Binocular advice

[Darkplague]

Hi all,

I'm a relative newbie to astronomy and am interested in getting some binoculars as a start. I have found some on e-bay, they are 10x50, with bak-7 porro prisms. But the coating is a ruby red coat. (multicoated). Is this good for night viewing at all? If not, what kind of coat is?

My first scope was a meade ar-6 refractor with goto. (Trufflehunters).
I have now regretfully sold it as I can't use it in my backyard without making all the dogs bark because of the goto drives. It became too annoying, everytime I would use the goto, all the neigbourhood dogs would go nuts.
Now I am getting a 10" dob with the crayfish focuser instead.
I hope this scope isnt as noisy :+)

Anyway nice to meet you all and hope to post some more in the future!

Mark

[toetoe (Peter)]

I am sure someone here could help you Mark, i know nothing about binocs as yet.
Shame to hear about the dogs making you get rid of the scope but you sound like you have made a good choice with the dob. I have a problem with the cat smooching against the tripod.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

I just heard all the Dobbers going "Crayford!!!" "Not Crayfish" You've made my night Mark. Thanks.

(wipes tears from eyes) What brand are the binocs. There are numerous different multicoatings. From what I understand the better ones for night viewing are those with blue or greenish coatings. My understand is that the red ones are for cutting down glare in extremely bright situations, I could be wrong (its happened before ). Not something that happens often at night unless your looking at the moon. If they reflect your image if you look at the objective lenses then this is likely the case. Some brands (mediocre quality ones) often coat their lenses so they look impressive but actually don't do a lot....depends alot on the brand. eg "multicoated" Tasco multicoated Pentax, Nikon etc (not specifically these brands just an example)


First off what brand are they. Then maybe we can give you some better advice.

[fringe_dweller]

Mark - i dont like the sound of the ruby red coating - you shouldnt visibly see much cheap coatings on anything for astronomical use (generally speaking) I would think? I could be wrong? restricts the amount of light that could pass thru - we actually think we have improved some old cheap second hand camera lenses light transmittence by gently accidently rubbing off what was left of the coatings just by the early cleaning style *someone* use to do LOL I found most cheap binos to be made strictly for daylight use only -
Whats the deal with the goto? emitting frequencies that dogs dont like ??!! how loud are we talking about? (i have nevr seen one in the flesh - other than shops)
Kearn

[Starkler (Geoff)]

I should warn you that ebay isnt the place to look for quality optical gear. Its more a place to offload trash that you wouldnt buy if you could see it first hand.

I bought a pair of binos which supposedly had bak4 prisms from ebay. As it turned out they were NOT bak4, and of poor quality full of internal reflections. This particular vendor counted on the buyer not knowing how to tell the difference and luckily after arguing the point I got a refund.

Ebay really is a minefield for those who dont know exactly what they are looking for.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Hi Mark and welcome to the group.

I recommend giving those E-bay binos the flick pass and buying something 1/2 decent. Actually forget about buying astronomy equipment from E-Bay period. There are no such things as Bak-7 prisms, you get BK-7 or Bak-4, with Bak-4 being much more desirable as these prisms have a higher light transmittance across a wider refractive angle through the prisms.

With the cost of medium quality binoculars becoming more reasonable all the time you can get a pair of mid level binos in the 8x40, 10x50 to 12x50 class for between $200 and $300. Such brands include the Pentax PCF WP and Nikon Action Extreme. These Binos are fully multi coated and both use Bak-4 prisms. They are also porro prism design which in cheaper binoculars are better than roof prisms. Expensive roof prism binoculars are very good but you need to spend >$1,000 to get good roof prism binoculars which use phase coated prisms and have the same high light transmission as porro prisms which is necessary for night time astronomical viewing.

CS-John B

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Hey Mark,

You can get Binocs for free!!!

You say you want to buy a Dobbie, well Andrews give a free pair of binocs with each Dobbie bought.

They aren't big and spectacular but they work pretty good. They are 10X32 with proper Astronomical (blue) multi-coating.

And by the way, Dobbies make a lot of noise. You going WOW! and OOOOHHHH!!! when you see the great images BIG Dobbies give. LOL

[acropolite (Phil)]

I've got a pair of 7x50's and a pair of 11-30 Zoom binocs. The 7x50's are Bressers and are perfect for browsing. They have excellent eye relief as well. The zoom binocs on the other hand have terrible eye relief and at 11x they really need some sort of mount, and optically are nowhere near as good as the 7x50's.

[Darkplague]

Originally Posted by [1ponders]

I just heard all the Dobbers going "Crayford!!!" "Not Crayfish" You've made my night Mark. Thanks.

(wipes tears from eyes) What brand are the binocs. There are numerous different multicoatings. From what I understand the better ones for night viewing are those with blue or greenish coatings. My understand is that the red ones are for cutting down glare in extremely bright situations, I could be wrong (its happened before ). Not something that happens often at night unless your looking at the moon. If they reflect your image if you look at the objective lenses then this is likely the case. Some brands (mediocre quality ones) often coat their lenses so they look impressive but actually don't do a lot....depends alot on the brand. eg "multicoated" Tasco multicoated Pentax, Nikon etc (not specifically these brands just an example)


First off what brand are they. Then maybe we can give you some better advice.

I was waiting for someone to pick up on the crayfish bit

I'm only looking for a casual binocular. I would rather spend my limited budget on some good EP's. I had a feeling that the red coats are no good also.

[Darkplague]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Hi Mark and welcome to the group.

I recommend giving those E-bay binos the flick pass and buying something 1/2 decent. Actually forget about buying astronomy equipment from E-Bay period. There are no such things as Bak-7 prisms, you get BK-7 or Bak-4, with Bak-4 being much more desirable as these prisms have a higher light transmittance across a wider refractive angle through the prisms.

With the cost of medium quality binoculars becoming more reasonable all the time you can get a pair of mid level binos in the 8x40, 10x50 to 12x50 class for between $200 and $300. Such brands include the Pentax PCF WP and Nikon Action Extreme. These Binos are fully multi coated and both use Bak-4 prisms. They are also porro prism design which in cheaper binoculars are better than roof prisms. Expensive roof prism binoculars are very good but you need to spend >$1,000 to get good roof prism binoculars which use phase coated prisms and have the same high light transmission as porro prisms which is necessary for night time astronomical viewing.

CS-John B

You mentioned the Nikon action extremes, well what about this pair:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

It is on only "action" and not action extreme. I'm guessing it would be the model below the AE. Being Nikon it wouldnt be too bad perhaps.

[slice of heaven]

Welcome Mark
Hope you got the side dressing with that crawdad focuser.lol
I was under the impression the red coatings are a cover up for false colours.
The binos we received free from Andrews were red coated.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Red coating is not necessarily "no good" if they are from a reputable manufacturer, just maybe no good for what you want to do with them at night. But I agree totally with the advice given so far, "Beware buying astronomy gear off ebay"

[Darkplague]

Originally Posted by fringe_dweller

Mark - i dont like the sound of the ruby red coating - you shouldnt visibly see much cheap coatings on anything for astronomical use (generally speaking) I would think? I could be wrong? restricts the amount of light that could pass thru - we actually think we have improved some old cheap second hand camera lenses light transmittence by gently accidently rubbing off what was left of the coatings just by the early cleaning style *someone* use to do LOL I found most cheap binos to be made strictly for daylight use only -
Whats the deal with the goto? emitting frequencies that dogs dont like ??!! how loud are we talking about? (i have nevr seen one in the flesh - other than shops)
Kearn

Were talking like an electric drill type sound, but more of a droning/whining.

I just live near stupid dogs that always go off when they hear police/ambulance sirens, and anything really . I thought maybe after I was out a few times they would get used to it , but they just wouldnt adapt!! (

I also have aperture fever and need some more inches!!!

Reading that last line back in my head, it sounds really bad.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by slice of heaven

The binos we received free from Andrews were red coated.

You gotted a bit ripped off methinks. Andrews sent me the small astro model. Great at night. Mediocre/good of a day. The Objective lenses are faint blue multi and the Eye end is faint violet. Hey, they were free! They actually work better than Cheryl's super expensive ($500+) Pentax GIANT Binocs.

[fringe_dweller]

I also have aperture fever and need some more inches!!!

Reading that last line back in my head, it sounds really bad. [/QUOTE]

I get spam emails telling me how you can fix that all the time

Millimetres and centimetres are just not as not as impressive (?) as saying i am going to get my Yard 'scope out now

wow i had never heard that about goto's before - thanks for the ammo
welcome to owning a real scope mate
Kearn

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Gonna buy me a Goto!

Whhhiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr . . woof woof . . click-whhhhiiiiiiizzzzzzzz . . woof woof woof!

[fringe_dweller]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

Gonna buy me a Goto!

Whhhiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr . . woof woof . . click-whhhhiiiiiiizzzzzzzz . . woof woof woof!

Ken,

Non dob owners -

[slice of heaven]

Ripped off, NAH. It was the big piece of glass I bought that I was interested in. Not the gimmicky extras.
The binos sat untouched for weeks until the lad thought they'd be handy at the footy.

[fringe_dweller]

Some pretty excellent advice from evryone thought i would mention my best quality binos are a pair of eschenbach 8x56's, I like that little bit more aperture trade off - still easy to hold - i paid way too much for them at the time ( nearly 400 i think?) - new - there are lots of much better ones out there - but the eschenbachs have proved very sturdy - have never gone out of collimation which is important in binos! i looked through a pair of $4000 leica compact binos in a shop once - it looked better than real life!! - nearly fell over - some sort of beer goggle affect? My 25x100's are a pair of cheap Kunming's which i bought for looking at bright binocular comets only really (and at which they are very very good at! low surface brightness objects benifit from the increased aperture and contrast (1.4x) -need good tripod tho - also very sturdy)- I have seen them as low as $500? And you only really need cheap full on colour correction coatings for looking at bright objects like the full moon really?
Kearn

[iceman (Mike)]

Hi Darkplague, nice to see you make your first post! How did you hear about us?

You're doing the right thing - getting some binoculars while saving up for the 10" dob. It's a shame you had to self your goto reflector, but I can understand about the noise.

The 10" dob makes no noise, and later down the track you can still have "push-to" in the form of DSC's like SkyCommander or ArgoNavis, if star-hopping isn't your cup of tea, or you want to find more objects, faster. You can also get tracking in the form of an EQ platform, again it makes no noise.

The bino advice you received is all good, Andrews have some good quality gear at a good price. I started with some Saxon 11x70's for $220. They're fine for astronomical use (not the highest quality, but they're ok), but as Slice (I think it was) said, don't forget you might want a tripod and tripod adapter to hold them steady - big aperture binoculars with high magnification are hard to hold steady and you see much less detail in objects when it's bouncing around your field-of-view.

Good luck and keep us informed! and don't wait so long before your next post!