ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
Waning Gibbous 76.9%
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18-09-2018, 03:15 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Junortoun Vic
Posts: 8,907
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Impact of the latest China/US tariff war!!
Well, reading through the list of products being impacted by the latest round of increased tariffs, all 194 pages! discloses some interesting items - besides bicycles....
Daystar may be interested to see that mica sheet (used in their solar filters) 25.25.10/ 6814.90.00 are on the list.
Digital cameras - 8525.80.50
Lenses/ Objective lenses/ Prisms/ Mirrors - 9001.90.40/9001.90.50/9001.90.60/ 9002.11.90
and optical filters - 9002.20.80
not sure the magnifiers includes eyepieces - 9013.80.20
but tripods are definitely included (All materials) - 9620.00.00
If these tariffs go ahead I can only see a negative impact on astronomical equipment, with higher prices!!
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18-09-2018, 03:20 PM
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ze frogginator
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,062
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I've heard 10% penalty effective immediately rising to 25% at the end of the year but for bikes and helmets.
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18-09-2018, 03:36 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Macquarie
Posts: 7,054
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This should not effect Australian prices that importers like TASCO pay ex-factory, and should not affect inbound GSO pricing to to Australian buyers. Sure if you buy something from a US retailer, it will cascade to you if US wholesalers and distributors pass it on.
Chinese factories can use non-US distribution channels to maintain market share. I believe Skywatcher US would be impacted as would Celestron in the US, and brands which are exclusive or primarily US names like Explore Scientific. Camera makers like ZWO should not be affected for Australian customers.
Let's see how it plays out. The impact of the buying power of the falling AUD might be more significant.
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18-09-2018, 04:25 PM
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No. I am a meat popsicle.
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Townsville
Posts: 598
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I expect the Chinese to adapt to this - with a possible redesign of their distribution system to avoid the tollgates/exposure to liability where possible. Perhaps some new brand names (HQ'd in different countries) will appear, from the same OEMs. They ain't stupid.
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18-09-2018, 04:48 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyG
They ain't stupid.
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True, but neither is the US. They look at 'country of origin' for parts and materials and put in a fair amount of effort to trace those.
Regarding Australian prices, am I the only one who thinks that Australian distributors would use any excuse to raise prices and blame it on factors 'beyond their control'?
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18-09-2018, 04:55 PM
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Novichok test rabbit
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in the cosmos...
Posts: 10,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkArts
True, but neither is the US. They look at 'country of origin' for parts and materials and put in a fair amount of effort to trace those.
Regarding Australian prices, am I the only one who thinks that Australian distributors would use any excuse to raise prices and blame it on factors 'beyond their control'?
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America sh!ts, we wipe. Nothing changes.
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18-09-2018, 05:19 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Narangba, SE QLD
Posts: 1,551
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The Yanks owe the Chinese so much money this is the only way they can get a trade balance.
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18-09-2018, 05:25 PM
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Novichok test rabbit
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in the cosmos...
Posts: 10,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdan
The Yanks owe the Chinese so much money this is the only way they can get a trade balance.
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Yeah, the Chinese own $1.2 TRILLION of US debt.
Breaking news is that China will retaliate on concurrently with the US tariffs on September 24th.
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18-09-2018, 06:04 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Macquarie
Posts: 7,054
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The Chinese do not import enough from the US to have any sort of equivalent impact with a tariff response. I can't help thinking this is all a stunt to boost Trumps Republican poll numbers ahead of the 6th of November mid-term elections. Since most of the Chinese manufactured goods no longer have US made alternatives, the US consumers will pick up the cost of the tariff when they buy their Tv's, dishwashers, etc. and this effectively becomes a consumption tax on US buyers.
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18-09-2018, 06:04 PM
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Watch me post!
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,905
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Quote:
Yeah, the Chinese own $1.2 TRILLION of US debt.
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And they themselves are second only to the US in debt
so who wins????
The whole lot is a ponzi scheme built on debts of imaginary money that probably cannot be repaid.
Andrew
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18-09-2018, 06:21 PM
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Senior Citizen
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bribie Island
Posts: 5,059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewJ
built on debts of imaginary money that probably cannot be repaid.
Andrew
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Ain't that the truth ... spot on ..!!
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18-09-2018, 06:33 PM
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Watch me post!
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,905
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Quote:
The Yanks owe the Chinese so much money this is the only way they can get a trade balance.
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Just thinking about this, the ethereal ponzi nature of it all, and how unconventional Trump is when it comes to international relations :-)
If i was Trump, i would simply make up an invoice to cover all the claimed theft of IP, including blatant copyright and patent breaches etc
It would match the current debt.
Problem solved :-)
Andrew
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18-09-2018, 06:52 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewJ
If i was Trump, i would simply make up an invoice to cover all the claimed theft of IP, including blatant copyright and patent breaches etc. It would match the current debt.
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This could actually be attempted. In one form or another. Maybe. Sort of.
Unfortunately, collection enforcement would require the entire US military ... so I wouldn't call that 'problem solved'.
(For the sake of discussion, I'm ignoring the smiley and obvious facetiousness.)
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18-09-2018, 06:54 PM
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Novichok test rabbit
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in the cosmos...
Posts: 10,388
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Another problem is the complete lack of intellect these days in the USA. So, does US IP really exist?
They really aren't very exceptional for the exceptional nation they claim to be.
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18-09-2018, 07:20 PM
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Watch me post!
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,905
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Gday Lewis
Quote:
They really aren't very exceptional for the exceptional nation they claim to be.
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You cant let minor details like that get in the way of an ambit legal claim.
If lawyers cant lie on your behalf, the civilised world will crumble.
Andrew
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18-09-2018, 10:10 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 1,439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewJ
debts of imaginary money that probably cannot be repaid.
Andrew
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100% true. The US' GDP barely covers the interest on their debt...... Unless you collapse the system to reduce interest rates. Wiping trillions off the value of the debt...... The GFC came from higher than wall st trade monkies.
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19-09-2018, 02:11 AM
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Oh, I See You Are Empty!
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laramie, WY - United States of America
Posts: 1,543
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People tend to get fixated on deficit, but that's not really the most important metric when it comes to sovereign fiscal strength when analyzing economics in a global sense.
That said, here are a couple of link to deficits.
An “arguably” better metric is the current account balance (CAB), as this is an indicator of the underlying health of a nation and its "cashflow".
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2187rank.html
The USA is in trouble, but is managing its deficit “ok”. Unfortunately, the CAB is getting deeper to the point where the increasing negative balance cannot be arrested (i.e. the rate of change in the CAB is getting worse).
Slag the US all you want, but the only nations to survive will be those with a positive CAB and very few nations are on the list (67 out of 202 nations). Someone here with a macro-economics may have a different view (e.g. zero-sum economics etc...) but I think the entire world is due for a "reboot".
OIC!
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19-09-2018, 03:40 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany 54°N
Posts: 1,110
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Compared with your current chart where it says $466,2bn:
Sept 2008 shows as $738.6bn (snapshot from waybackmachine),
in 2007, the erliest snapshot on the waybackmachine and only 1 year earlier, it was at $862.3bn.
When Trump took office it was at $469.4bn.
So your statement "Unfortunately, the CAB is >>getting deeper<< to the point where the increasing negative balance cannot be arrested (i.e. the rate of change in the CAB is getting worse)" is not factual.
However, if you WANT to be alarmed, there is a reason for that, too. A prediction tool for recession is the inverted yield curve: from the day that longterm interest rates, 10 years, fall below short term interest rates (3 months), it takes 6 to 18 months for the US to develop a recession.
The Fed Bank monitors and updates this same PDF monthly. So you can bookmark it for future, current reference. https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibr...s/Prob_Rec.pdf
Top chart shows the past recession as grey bars.
Here's the daily current view https://ycharts.com/indicators/10_ye...reasury_spread
Recession in 2020 is likely. Just when the Trumpist regime will hand over to the Dems (probably) and they get to clean up the Rep's mess, >again<. Dems are telling this narrative: that it was always a Rep's administration causing the recession, and the Dems inheriting it to clean it up. That cycle left the false impression in voters' minds that Dems have no fiscal/economic competence since it's always under a Dem administration that the people suffer from a recession.
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19-09-2018, 04:19 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Warragul, Vic
Posts: 4,494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OICURMT
Slag the US all you want,
OIC!
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The list of criticisms that can be squarely aimed at the US is long, but I sure as hell hope they prevail over totalitarian China. Profit seems a poor excuse for empowering an oppressive regime.
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19-09-2018, 04:27 PM
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ze frogginator
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casstony
The list of criticisms that can be squarely aimed at the US is long, but I sure as hell hope they prevail over totalitarian China. Profit seems a poor excuse for empowering an oppressive regime.
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I'm just waiting to see what China is going to say about IP and "transfer" of technology.
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