Looking to Begin Astrophotography

[JimmyAstro]

Hi,

I posted part of this in the new member intro forum section.

But, it is really related to beginner equipment so I thought I would post part here too.

I am interested in astrophotography, something I could have only dreamed of back in the 80's.

I am thinking to start with either an EQ3-2 or EQ5 as the mount, I want something that is portable and that I am going to get out and not just sit there because it is too heavy.

When it comes to the telescope or OTA, I am thinking either a Skywatcher Newtonian 130 or 150 PDS, but I can't seem to find one anywhere for sale in Australia. Or perhaps a Skywatcher refractor 62ed evolux or 72ed black diamond refractor. I have an old 135mm lens that I am also planning on using with my cheap DSLR.

I am thinking these should be light enough for an EQ3-2 or EQ5 mount when well balanced. Trying to stay light and wide, I believe staying wide as a beginning imager is probably a good starting point as I think I will probably enjoy more success and will stay within the limits of a small mount. Early success seems to be important from what I see, and not making things too difficult to start with.

Once I have served my probation period on here, I plan on putting a wanted advert in for some of the things listed above. I am happy looking for an older EQ3-2 or EQ5, even if it needs a little work! If anybody has one? Budget is tight so don't want to spend too much. I would like to also take on the DIY OnStep system/project to add to such a mount.

Other than that really excited to be here and learn from you all.

Interested to know your thoughts and advice on the above.

Regards

JA

[JimmyAstro]

Hi,

I recently replied to someone in the For Sale area with regards to an Orion 80ED telescope.

I know I said I was looking somewhere around the 62mm to 72mm area, but I read a lot of people recommend an 80ED for beginners. Especially in relation to photography.

Will an EQ3-2 be good enough to start with an 80ED on a tight budget? I am not too bothered if it is not a perfect mount, just something for me to start and trial this hobby as well as perhaps just do some visual astronomy too.

Is there anything else I need to consider about such a purchase? I saw it has no focuser, is that going to be expensive to replace with either a Moonlite (quoted in advert) thingy or perhaps a manufacturer focuser?

Anybody got any advice for me on this one please?

Thank you

JA

[AstroViking (Steve)]

Hi JA,

Welcome to the hobby. You'll find it's inspiring, thought-provoking, frustrating and (potentially) expensive - in roughly equal measures.

I can't speak for the EQ3-2, as I went straight to the HEQ5-Pro as my first mount because it's got a good payload (15kg for visual, call it 10kg for imaging) and is capable of good results.

The EQ3-2 does not appear to come with tracking motors and is certainly not a "goto" mount. So you'll need to spend more money to get the motors added and then have to learn your way around the night sky to find your targets. (I can hear lots of IIS members saying this is not such a bad thing...)

The general advice I have seen is to "go big" on the mount as it's the most critical part of the setup. You will get good images with a low-quality telescope on a good mount, but you will struggle to get good images with a good telescope on a poor mount.

Also, look to the future - what sort of telescope do you see yourself ending up with? If it's going to be too big for your mount, then you'll need to upgrade your mount as well, when the time comes.

Unless you know exactly which focuser will fit that Orion OTA, I'd be wary. You don't need the hassles of trying to find a focuser, when all you want is to be out there imaging.

To summarise my advice:
- buy a bigger mount. Even the HEQ35M (with tracking and goto) will be better than the EQ3-2
- buy a complete scope with all the bits
- be prepared to learn a lot of things really quickly

Cheers,
V.

[JimmyAstro]

Thanks Steve,

You have given me a lot to think about.

I understand the thought process behind the largest mount with best mechanics. But, I am limited by three factors:

1. Budget - this is to buy a beginner scope and some kind of mount that can handle it.
2. Health - I need something highly portable and that I can move/transport easy.
3. Transport - I live in quite bright suburb, so need something I can move in my small car.

I think to begin I will start small and cheap, if I like the hobby of imaging I can then look at a bigger mount (after some saving) for the backyard with perhaps narrowband or other filter to help with the artificial light in the area. the EQ3-2 could then become my mobile mount for dark skies. I read you can make an EQ3-2 Goto with an Onstep system.

I think maybe too big too early could spell doom for me.

Thanks

Again

Originally Posted by AstroViking

Hi JA,

Welcome to the hobby. You'll find it's inspiring, thought-provoking, frustrating and (potentially) expensive - in roughly equal measures.

I can't speak for the EQ3-2, as I went straight to the HEQ5-Pro as my first mount because it's got a good payload (15kg for visual, call it 10kg for imaging) and is capable of good results.

The EQ3-2 does not appear to come with tracking motors and is certainly not a "goto" mount. So you'll need to spend more money to get the motors added and then have to learn your way around the night sky to find your targets. (I can hear lots of IIS members saying this is not such a bad thing...)

The general advice I have seen is to "go big" on the mount as it's the most critical part of the setup. You will get good images with a low-quality telescope on a good mount, but you will struggle to get good images with a good telescope on a poor mount.

Also, look to the future - what sort of telescope do you see yourself ending up with? If it's going to be too big for your mount, then you'll need to upgrade your mount as well, when the time comes.

Unless you know exactly which focuser will fit that Orion OTA, I'd be wary. You don't need the hassles of trying to find a focuser, when all you want is to be out there imaging.

To summarise my advice:
- buy a bigger mount. Even the HEQ35M (with tracking and goto) will be better than the EQ3-2
- buy a complete scope with all the bits
- be prepared to learn a lot of things really quickly

Cheers,
V.

[carlstronomy (Carl)]

JimmyAstro,

Welcome to the hobby, can I first ask you a question. You mentioned astrophotography, what do you want to take images of and how good do you want your images to be. This very simple question not answered can send you on a quest which will cost you a lot of money when not required.

Direct responses
1. Budget - the word astrophotography means you will have to spend some money, do you have a budget in mind.
2. There are many light weight rigs out there you do not have to go big. It sounds like with health issues big will never be something you are looking at.
3. This is covered by 2.



So having said that you will require the following.
1. A nice mount, you really need to look at a go-to mount. A manual mount when you travel to sites will not be fun, a manual mount for astrophotography is a pain. If you go for a manual mount from the start when planning out imaging then you will soon pack things in the corner and say its all too hard.
2. A nice small refractor will get you lovely images for a beginner.
3. A camera, a lot of people start out with a cheap DSLR, these can be picked up on marketplace for a $120. The best thing about these is you can use these without a laptop when starting out.
4. A focusing mask
5. A computer, but this does not have to be a travel one. You do your work on the computer when you get home and transfer your images from your camera.
6. Software to stack and process your hard night of imaging. There is enough free stuff to start out with you do not have to spend a penny here

This is now where your budget can take a hit. You go a big mount, fancy camera, a laptop, then you need power etc, lots to carry etc etc. This impacts all 3 of your criteria. Below are just examples, I am not saying go out and buy them in anyway there are other options out there

Mount - Star Adventurer GTi with WiFi Control - This unit can be controlled by your phone is fully go-to and runs with AA batteries

Scope- Evostar ED 62 or ED72 Refractor - small and very nice to use and give great results for learners

Camera - Canon 450d-700d. (Do not purchase a 750d)

My site rig is the above mount, ED62 and and a 450d. This whole unit is light and easy to setup.

Having said this, use Dr google and look into a few things, work out how much you want to spend first. You can get a lot of good second hand gear on this site for great prices and you will not go wrong with the people here as they will always help.

IMPORTANT: Do not rush into anything.

[JimmyAstro]

Hi Carlstronomy,

Thanks for your detailed response and advice.

Sorry - already rushed in!

I guess to answer some of your points, I offer the following responses:

Budget (really tight) - Wanted/Needed to keep under $1000!
Photographing/Imaging - Widefield (i.e. nebula, larger galaxies, clusters)
Level - Just a beginner (I am a realist - so happy to capture something, I understand things get better with practice).

I have now (as of today) already bought/acquired some items locally as follows:

SVBony 30mm Guidescope - Used - $35
EQ3-2 (with Skywatcher Deluxe Dual Drive Tracking, HC + ST4 Port) - Used - $295
OnStep Goto System (Prebuilt + Motors & Brackets) - New (eBay) - $280
Celestron Nexguide Autoguider - Used - $0 (Gift/Extended Loan)
Raspberry Pi 3 (For use with Stellarmate, EKOS, Astroberry etc) - Used- $0 (Already Had)
Canon 50d & Sony a6000 Cameras (+ Timer Controllers) - Used - $0 (Already Had)
Canon & Sony Camera T-Adaptors - Used - $25
Samyang 135mm f2 Manual Focus (EF Model + Sony Adaptor) - Used - $0 (Already Had)
Old Laptop & Tablet - Used - $0 (Already Had)

TOTAL SO FAR - $635!

This leaves approx $375 for a telescope/OTA, so mission impossible here and I might need to extend by around $200 (closer to $600) to buy something. I am looking at the 80ED (on IIS) without focuser at the moment, a GSO focuser will cost around $290. So maybe buy the OTA and save for the focuser or wait for a Moonlite version to come up used. I could just use the 135mm lens in the interim.

I have downloaded details on how to hypertune an EQ3-2 and that process has begun today. Once the OnStep package arrives, I will then install the goto system to the mount.

I understand that this is a tight budget, but that is what it is I am afraid. I don't expect the same quality of images as some of those seen on IIS. It is just as much about the experience and learning. As stated in my first post, if I keep things relatively wide and fast I think I might be able to get away with a less forgiving and lighter mount. Well that is what my research leads me to believe.

I have been looking into this for a little while and I have already accumulated a range of free imaging software etc, which I have been practicing with for some months with other peoples images and data.

Thanks again, I am getting closer and will hopefully be able to post some images here soon. I can't wait!

Regards

JA

Originally Posted by carlstronomy

JimmyAstro,

Welcome to the hobby, can I first ask you a question. You mentioned astrophotography, what do you want to take images of and how good do you want your images to be. This very simple question not answered can send you on a quest which will cost you a lot of money when not required.

Direct responses
1. Budget - the word astrophotography means you will have to spend some money, do you have a budget in mind.
2. There are many light weight rigs out there you do not have to go big. It sounds like with health issues big will never be something you are looking at.
3. This is covered by 2.



So having said that you will require the following.
1. A nice mount, you really need to look at a go-to mount. A manual mount when you travel to sites will not be fun, a manual mount for astrophotography is a pain. If you go for a manual mount from the start when planning out imaging then you will soon pack things in the corner and say its all too hard.
2. A nice small refractor will get you lovely images for a beginner.
3. A camera, a lot of people start out with a cheap DSLR, these can be picked up on marketplace for a $120. The best thing about these is you can use these without a laptop when starting out.
4. A focusing mask
5. A computer, but this does not have to be a travel one. You do your work on the computer when you get home and transfer your images from your camera.
6. Software to stack and process your hard night of imaging. There is enough free stuff to start out with you do not have to spend a penny here

This is now where your budget can take a hit. You go a big mount, fancy camera, a laptop, then you need power etc, lots to carry etc etc. This impacts all 3 of your criteria. Below are just examples, I am not saying go out and buy them in anyway there are other options out there

Mount - Star Adventurer GTi with WiFi Control - This unit can be controlled by your phone is fully go-to and runs with AA batteries

Scope- Evostar ED 62 or ED72 Refractor - small and very nice to use and give great results for learners

Camera - Canon 450d-700d. (Do not purchase a 750d)

My site rig is the above mount, ED62 and and a 450d. This whole unit is light and easy to setup.

Having said this, use Dr google and look into a few things, work out how much you want to spend first. You can get a lot of good second hand gear on this site for great prices and you will not go wrong with the people here as they will always help.

IMPORTANT: Do not rush into anything.

[AstroViking (Steve)]

Hi JA,

Your plan sounds like a good one - I had visions of you wanting to dive into the deep end to start with. Hence my "go big" on the mount.

A light-weight mount and a DSLR is an excellent starting point. The Samyang 135mm is a very good lens to start with, too.

Cheers,
V.

[carlstronomy (Carl)]

Great work, you have some nice gear to start with, get the OT and you are off and running

[alan meehan (Alan)]

Hi JA Welcome to astrophotography it can be a hard task to find the right gear to start sounds like you are heading in the right direction so far ,i have a spare skywatcher ED80 PRO SERIES its a good scope but i have too many scopes and its up for sale it has a williams optics red dot finder and i could throw in a williams optics diagonal ,you would still need a guide scope and camera probaly around $300 mark 2nd hand if you are interested i have it for sale in the telescope section ,and iam dropping the price to $600 ED80S are a good starting point wide field and good deep sky
Good luck you will not look back
Alan Meehan

[alan meehan (Alan)]

PS If you are thinking along the lines of a skywatcher GTI they are a great mount the ed80 was on mine but i want to go more portable with a camera lens so i can take it on the train when i travel all the best

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Remember no need to buy everything new, be patient as mounts come up second hand all the time. I have an EQ3 mount and do get some pretty good results. It is motorised and run by the asiair. When it tracks well it tracks nicely but occasionally it spikes and may ruin a sub here or there. but I think that's more a balance issue as it is a hard mount to get balance right

[JimmyAstro]

Hi Nik & Alan,

Thanks for your responses.

I certainly won't be buying many things brand new, as my budget dictates this!

The only thing I have bought new so far has been the EQ3 OnStep (prebuilt built) system, this was necessary as I am not very electronically / mathematically minded and building myself would have slowed this element down considerably.

I now have an EQ3-2 and have finally added my main final component (I know there will be other little things in the future), the optical tube to the collection! I have bought the Orion 80ED from Unique (Hugh), but now need to find/buy either a Moonlite Focuser or a cheaper GSO/Synta variant.

Thanks for the offer Alan, I had already agreed to buy Hugh's Orion 80ED before your offer came through, I am hoping that I can perhaps get a cheap generic focuser for now (maybe $100 - $150) to fill that void. So your $600 offer would have put me well over budget. In relation to the guide scope, I already have a 30mm f4 guide scope which I will be using a gifted Celestron Nexguide Autoguider with.

I think my main question for everybody in this thread was a sanity check about using either the 80ED refractor, 130mm newtonian (i.e. 130PDS), or 150mm Newtonian (i.e. 150PDS) on the EQ3-2. Am I going too far over in weight for the EQ3-2/class of mount? My research is that I am certainly getting close to the limits with any of those optical tubes, but I have certainly seen people take great wide field images with such combinations. I think the key will be lessening weight as much as possible (i.e. eventually moving to smaller astro style camera), but most of all ensuring exceptional balance on all axis.

So complete setup (minus focuser) is as follows:

Orion 80ED Optical Tube (minus focuser) - Used - $300
SVBony 30mm f4 Guidescope - Used - $35
EQ3-2 (with Skywatcher Deluxe Dual Drive Tracking, HC + ST4 Port) - Used - $295
OnStep Goto System (Prebuilt + Motors & Brackets) - New (eBay) - $280
Celestron Nexguide Autoguider - Used - $0 (Gift/Extended Loan)
Raspberry Pi 3 (For use with Stellarmate, EKOS, Astroberry etc) - Used- $0 (Already Had)
Canon 50d & Sony a6000 Cameras (+ Timer Controllers) - Used - $0 (Already Had)
Canon & Sony Camera T-Adaptors - Used - $25
Samyang 135mm f2 Manual Focus (EF Model + Sony Adaptor) - Used - $0 (Already Had)
Old Laptop & Tablet - Used - $0 (Already Had)

Grand Total now around $935, so still just under my $1000 budget limit at the moment. Which is looking more not like a reality once I add a focuser!

I just need to wait my 30 days of new membership before I can put an add in the Wanted area for either a cheap Moonlite or other compatible (i.e. GSO/Synta) focuser.

Regards

JA

[JimmyAstro]

Hello,

Unfortunately this little project is now on hold due to a personal issue which means that I cannot go ahead with the 80ED OTA purchase from Hugh. Apologies Hugh for any inconvenience.

I will have to resort to using my old Samyang 135mm lens for the time being, an actual telescope will now likely be sometime later.

Thanks to everyone for their advice and support.

Regards

JA

[ChrisV (Chris)]

You can't go wrong with the Samyang 135!!!! I always enjoy getting it out (had it for 5 years and just used it again last month). Some of my favourite images have been taken with it, whether on a fixed tripod, an onstep modded eq5 or my G11 (overkill++).

I actually got it when I started live imaging. It's great for that.

[RIX83 (Rick)]

I'm currently thinking of reversing my focal length WO z61 to a 135 for widefield astro... just pleases me more ��