Exo planets and Intelligent life

[PeterEde (Peter)]

Was thinking the other day about SETI.
We are looking for rocky planets that might harbour intelligent life.
We are looking for atmospheres with the gasses of life. All well and good.
But what about metallic elements? Can we have technology "Intelligent life" without metallic elements? would we have the technology today if the Earth did not have such elements as Iron, Copper, Gold, Silicon?

Our sun provided Earth with these elements. Minor "rare" elements came from interstellar space?
So should we be narrowing our search to just stars of similar make up to our own? as a priority?

[xelasnave]

If we were really intelligent would we ever need technology?
Any search involved assumptions.. the most fundament assumption being "they" will be like us..so we will tend to seek markers we associate with ourselves...
Really intelligent life would cloak their planet such that their presence remains undetectable.

Do we need to know. At best we could only detect hints...they will never become friends on facebook.

[graham.hobart (Graham stevens)]

I think the search is also for "any life" at all not just "intelligent life" i.e complex carbon molecules or even silicon based or combinations of amino acids which may start a primordial soup.
Intelligent life i.e Homo sapiens is an oxymoron anyway.
Just look at the daily news. We all still are chimps throwing pooh at each other.
Graz

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi Alex,

I tend to agree with your posted opinion. To illustrate why, read on.

When I was a 9-10 yr old I discovered a large ant nest. We called them Bullants. Meat Ants or just biting ants.

When the nest was disturbed the angry red/maroon biters would pour out of several holes in the hard clay. I used to enjoy stomping on them. This was called fun.

Over a few years I would frequently visit the site and do the stomp. As I advanced to my early teens this was no longer an exercise that entertained me. I grew above that kind of thing.

I still visited the area for other reasons and avoided making any contact with the nest area. I had grown up somewhat and this is what leads me to believe the following. If aliens were intelligent enough to have developed space travel, particularly inter galactic then we would appear like those ants to them. Avoid us and remain cloaked.

If, however aliens wanted to study us, and this remains true with almost all life form studies. They would effect it with minimum disturbance to the life form being studied, us humans. We do not have the technology to detect aliens.

I believe that most UFO reports to be something other than actual aliens. It is to the alien's disadvantage that they be detected / exposed.

Abductions? Possibly too much funny candy consumed by the story tellers. The governments are not interested. As some members have said about UFO's. "there are thousands of members' scopes pointed at the stars, yet no one has reported any aliens."

Hi Peter,
Regarding the various metallic elements and life. I don't claim to be any kind of expert
on the matter but I do have an opinion.

I believe it is possible for life to exist and develop in a variety of environments. Life is a very adaptable entity. On Earth, for example, nearly all life requires oxygen and water. There are exceptions. A creature living in or near the hydrothermal vents does not require oxygen. It uses sulphur instead. Some interesting conclusions can be drawn from that.
Alien life? Would we be able to recognise it?

Cheers

[PeterEde (Peter)]

So you all think aliens are playing 1st Contact to the point they are up there looking down on us.

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi Peter,

That is not what I believe at all. Its just a possibility and one that makes some sense. However I do believe if it is happening we are safe to go about our own thing polluting the Earth and / or killing each other. The aliens see us as a self destructive species.

Cheers

[PeterEde (Peter)]

I'm of the thought we've been visited and they maybe sharing technology. One item at a time every 15-20 years.
Many inventions ideas seem to pop into the heads of smart people. At times far beyond thinking of the day.

[xelasnave]

We need to build battle stars to patrol the boundaries of the solar system so as to control the threats of invasion. And finally move all military to patrol the putter boundary...united against this alien mob we will unite the world in peace whilst preparing for war.
It does not get better than that.
There probably are some many life forms even beyond what hollywood makes up...look at our insect world and image similar diversity elsewhere

[xelasnave]

We need to build battle stars to patrol the boundaries of the solar system so as to control the threats of invasion. And finally move all military to patrol the putter boundary...united against this alien mob we will unite the world in peace whilst preparing for war.
It does not get better than that.
There probably are some many life forms even beyond what hollywood makes up...look at our insect world and image similar diversity elsewhere

[xelasnave]

Deleted

[xelasnave]

Deleted duplicated post

[xelasnave]

Trying to edit a post results in a fresh post..I give upon

[PeterEde (Peter)]

Well since I'll assume I'm the only one here with previous military experience (AFAIK) I'm captain Kirk. Ooops make that Darth Vader. Emperor Palpatine?

[xelasnave]

Supreme word order regions director...sword...first commander of worlds first battle star. The more I think about it the better such an idea seems..
I don't know what research is going on but there must by scientists fling something..you could look for all sort of tracers..maybe we could start a programmes

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by PeterEde

Was thinking the other day about SETI.
We are looking for rocky planets that might harbour intelligent life.
We are looking for atmospheres with the gasses of life. All well and good.
But what about metallic elements? Can we have technology "Intelligent life" without metallic elements? would we have the technology today if the Earth did not have such elements as Iron, Copper, Gold, Silicon?

Our sun provided Earth with these elements. Minor "rare" elements came from interstellar space?
So should we be narrowing our search to just stars of similar make up to our own? as a priority?

Hi Pete,
The sun didn't provide the earth with the heavy elements, other dead stars did.

Since a fair chunk of our earth's surface went towards making our moon, and the moon in turn doesn't have much by way of those heavy elements, I wonder if inhabitants of a place similar in size to earth would have to do a hell of a lot more digging in order to get to those heavier elements. Or if there is even enough of those elements accessible near the surface crust to make technologically advanced civilisation possible.

Given the circumstances that led to the creation of the moon, I wonder if there are any earth-like planets (chemical composition wise) out there at all.
Regards,
Renato

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

Hi Pete,
The sun didn't provide the earth with the heavy elements, other dead stars did.

Since a fair chunk of our earth's surface went towards making our moon, and the moon in turn doesn't have much by way of those heavy elements, I wonder if inhabitants of a place similar in size to earth would have to do a hell of a lot more digging in order to get to those heavier elements. Or if there is even enough of those elements accessible near the surface crust to make technologically advanced civilisation possible.

Given the circumstances that led to the creation of the moon, I wonder if there are any earth-like planets (chemical composition wise) out there at all.
Regards,
Renato

Your first comment re the moon is still being debated and there some heavy elements on the moon
Just based on sheer numbers there has to be another earth like planet out there. At what stage it is at or whether it has life, who knows but the odds are it exists.
Again, you are assuming that the life form will require similar conditions to ourselves. In a hotter environment Silicon could be the base rather than Carbon for a life form, look at the periodic table and you will see why.
Keep your minds open, there is more to this universe than we can imagine yet.

[PeterEde (Peter)]

Originally Posted by ZeroID

Your first comment re the moon is still being debated and there some heavy elements on the moon
Just based on sheer numbers there has to be another earth like planet out there. At what stage it is at or whether it has life, who knows but the odds are it exists.
Again, you are assuming that the life form will require similar conditions to ourselves. In a hotter environment Silicon could be the base rather than Carbon for a life form, look at the periodic table and you will see why.
Keep your minds open, there is more to this universe than we can imagine yet.

It's life Jim but not as we know it.

Have we been visited? Are they living among us?

I figure there are so many things "humans" are supposed to have built but today we have no means to repeat. Lost knowledge or knowledge taken from us?
The astronomical computer discovered on a Roman ship wreck dated BC.
The leaps in technology every 20 or so years. Like some miracle.
today the world considers stealth aircraft the be all (F117, F22, F35) The SR71 was stealth in the 60s and faster than anything in than air today.
Computer technology with CPUs with billions of transistors. I remember not so long ago silicon was at the limits
Without so much as a story on how we surpassed that limit?
The one technology we've been developing for 50 + years is still going and still no closer to perfecting. Fusion power.
Today NASA say they've proven the maths to build warp drive and we'll have ships within 50-100 years capable of interstellar travel. Is the galaxy ready for us. Are we really ready for that?
Will the 1st ship be the Jupiter II or Enterprise. Will the onboard computer be called HAL?

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by ZeroID

Your first comment re the moon is still being debated and there some heavy elements on the moon
Just based on sheer numbers there has to be another earth like planet out there. At what stage it is at or whether it has life, who knows but the odds are it exists.
Again, you are assuming that the life form will require similar conditions to ourselves. In a hotter environment Silicon could be the base rather than Carbon for a life form, look at the periodic table and you will see why.
Keep your minds open, there is more to this universe than we can imagine yet.

Hi Pete,
My understanding is that the question of the moon having come from the earth - which was a nutty idea when first proposed - wound up being conclusively proved by isotope analysis of the samples brought back from the moon. Any debate on the issue would thus be very much at the margin.

Silicon based life? We live on a silicon planet which in the past was very much hotter than today. It didn't arise here, and I've seen counter arguments to the view that it could exist based on information exchange between molecules, suggesting that it is extremely unlikely to have occurred - or may eventually occur somewhere after tens of billions of years.

As for the odds being in favour of an earth-like planet out there, well 90% of stars are small red ones ruling out anything earth-like because of tidal locking in the habitable zone. Then there is a very tiny band around galaxies where earth sized planets can form (further in towards the centre, rocky planets are much bigger, further out away from centre and they are much smaller). Which cuts the candidate stars with possible earth-like planets down considerably. Add to that the supposed fluke event of a large body hitting the planet and forming a huge moon, which keeps the planet very stable in terms of axial tilt, and the odds start getting very tiny - like a few possible earth-like planets in the galaxy (or even less - one earth-like planet per number off galaxies).

Add to that that there was once a time when species of dinosaurs ruled the earth for 160 million years, and in that entire time never managed to tie two sticks together, much less light a fire.

I think SETI types are extreme optimists.
Regards,
Renato

[PeterEde (Peter)]

What does the existence of the moon have to do with life on other planets? Life here may or may not have evolved with or without the moon. Sure it's had an affect on life but that's not to say life can not thrive on a moonless planet that has no seasons, no tides or minimal tides. To me that's being narrow minded and locks life into our style of evolution. Why does it have to be life as we know it?
What would life be like if dinosaurs never went extinct? Would they have evolved into intelligent life?
We have the form we do because we evolved to suit the Earth and it's conditions. Other life if it exists would do the same for it's environment.
100 billion galaxies with 100 billion stars, with 100 billion planets in each galaxy and some still think we are special.

SETI hopeful.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by PeterEde

What does the existence of the moon have to do with life on other planets? Life here may or may not have evolved with or without the moon. Sure it's had an affect on life but that's not to say life can not thrive on a moonless planet that has no seasons, no tides or minimal tides. To me that's being narrow minded and locks life into our style of evolution. Why does it have to be life as we know it?
What would life be like if dinosaurs never went extinct? Would they have evolved into intelligent life?
We have the form we do because we evolved to suit the Earth and it's conditions. Other life if it exists would do the same for it's environment.
100 billion galaxies with 100 billion stars, with 100 billion planets in each galaxy and some still think we are special.

SETI hopeful.

No big moon around a planet means chaotic shifts in the planet's axis every half a million years or so, which means very adverse effects on weather patterns, which might be extremely tough on any complex organisms trying to develop.

We've had our own extreme weather events on earth, which wiped out lots of species. Imagine that happening far more often than happened here - so that they didn't get the millions of stable years that species had here.

A Moon-less earth-like planet would be only very superficially earth-like.

No doubt life will be found out there, but the best expectation is that it will mainly be algae.
Regards,
Renato