status report: Pony Club support IIS use of their Mangrove Mountain site

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Following on from the (not so) recent refurbishment of their Clubhouse by the Mangrove Mountain Pony Club and Jump Club (separate entities), we Central Coast and Sydney members of IIS have continued to hold observing nights there, but have been locked out of these new facilities.

This was expected (by me at least) to be a short term inconvenience.
32 Months later, we are still out in the cold.

I know some people will disapprove of me rocking the boat, as the most important thing is the site access. But it is not acceptable to expect our participants and their guests, to have to brave the cold night air for several hours without toilet facilities. It might be OK for "The Guys" to "Hold it" or go find a dark corner, but I don't think it is fair for our fairer sex to have to find a spot to squat. (That is my opinion anyway).

So I sent an email to the Treasurer of the Pony Club (contact details from their web site) reminding them that we used to have access to the pit toilets and that these were no longer available to us. I also asked if it may be possible to have access to electricity (for imagers) and possible use of kitchen facilities (although these were not game breakers).

I was then asked to provide details of our club structure and insurance.
Neither of which exist (IIS is not a club in terms of legal entity).

My reply is attached.

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Their response:

Hi Alan,
In response to your email received by our Treasurer Karen Stapleton July 9th 2013, would you please advise if your club currently holds Liability Insurance. If you would like to reply to our email address before our next committee meeting which is to be held in August, we can further discuss your letter. We will need to liase with Central Coast Jump Club with your requests, as they are also a Licensee to the Mangrove Creek Recreation Reserve Trust.
Regards,
Kerri Best
Secretary
Mangrove Mountain Pony Club

my reply (after discussion with Mike Salway)

Dear Kerri,
Thankyou for your email of 22 July.
To clarify. We are not a “club”, in any legal sense, incorporated or other.
We are simply a local group of amateur astronomers who share a common passion for viewing the heavens, from a convenient location where light pollution is at a minimum.
We are levied no fees.
There are no financial reimbursements, etc..
Each of us is responsible for their own equipment, setup, enjoyment, and conduct.
We have no "club" insurance cover, as we have no legal entity under which to enter such an arrangement, and no facility to pay for one.
Simply sitting at a telescope for a few hours, imposes few risks (except perhaps frostbite), and I have not heard of any incidents in the nine years we have been doing so.
I hope this satisfies your enquiry. Please let me know if you wish to discuss this or any matter further.
I look forward to our continued friendship.
Yours Sincerely,
Allan Lovell
(on behalf of the amateur astronomers of the Central Coast region)

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Today, while checking if the site was OK for us to use this Friday and/or Saturday, I also sought an update of those meetings.

The response is from the PC president:

Hi Allan,

Thanks for you email. We are certainly working towards providing access for your club. I have sent you a copy of our email of the 16th September which we forwarded to the Trust following our meeting with Central Coast Jump Club for your information. To date unfortunately, we have not received a response. Regarding this weekend Pony Club will be using the grounds on Sunday only.



To the Mangrove Creek Trust,

Recently Mangrove Mountain Pony Club (MMPC) and the Central Coast Jump Club (CCJC) held a meeting to discuss the access to the clubhouse facilities by other community groups.

Both clubs were in agreement that we would like to extend the use of the disabled toilet facilities to other community groups. The only question we had was if the public liability insurance extended to members of the public that utilse the reserve, would also cover the use of this facility?

If so, both clubs have made a commitment to fund the installation of a switch for the water pump and a power point to this toilet which would allow other community groups to have access to a toilet, and power, allowing better use the reserve. It was also determined that in return, a small token donation, of an amount determined by the community group, be provided to the clubs to assist in the payment of the power, water, yearly rent and the alterations made to allow these clubs access to the clubhouse facilities funded by MMPC and CCJC.

Please consider the above,

look forward to your response,

Beverley Small - Mangrove Mountain Pony Club President

[GTB_an_Owl (Geoff)]

keep up the good work Al

geoff

[MortonH]

Sounds very promising.

[iceman (Mike)]

Nice work Al!

[Fizics (John)]

Thanks for the update Allan

[Arthur Alchin (Arthur Alchin)]

Thankyou All we will watch this space

[gb_astro]

Great work Allan.

Bit surprised to see that the PCs are paying annual rent.

Greg.

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Hello to all our readers

Out of the blue (and unsolicited) we have received some related, but separate, new and unexpected support, advice, and information.
The details of which I am not able to disclose on public forum.
And whether this is for our benefit or detriment remains to be seen.
However, I look forward to sharing this tidbit with you all at our next gathering.
Say November 30th?

[GTB_an_Owl (Geoff)]

my ears are twitching Al

ps - probably raining on the 30th

geoff

[Allan]

Sounds good Allan. Curious about the cryptic message, but will be there on the 30th for the reveal.

Last month the lights were on inside the clubhouse which affected observing. We had no way to get in to turn the lights off.

[GTB_an_Owl (Geoff)]

Al

would you like a "Private" forum?

it can be arranged on gtbchat

geoff

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Originally Posted by Allan

Last month the lights were on inside the clubhouse which affected observing. We had no way to get in to turn the lights off.

Same thing previous month.
We taped a big black garbage bag over the window in question.
That helped a lot.

[Shano592 (Shane)]

We just tried to block the light with the cars. It mostly worked, though it was still quite bright.

[gb_astro]

Originally Posted by Allan_L

Same thing previous month.
We taped a big black garbage bag over the window in question.
That helped a lot.

Allan perhaps you could ask your contact at the Pony Club about that light.
It would be adding quite a bit to their power bill if they are just forgetting to turn it off. We might score some brownie points here.
Then again it might be a security measure.

Greg.

[Shano592 (Shane)]

Greg, I don't know about a security measure so much ...

A light on in a small side room, in a shed, set back in a paddock, 100m away from the nearest house. I mean, I know what you are saying, but I can't see where it would be effective, except at preventing someone from using the loo?

I think they would do better to have motion-activated lighting. At least then we can unscrew the globes.

[Allan_L (Allan)]

It has been a long time between ..., but I received this today

Hi Allan,

we have not been ignoring your requests let me explain our situation.

The club house is owned by both Central Coast Jump Club and Mangrove Mountain Pony Club, the ground is controlled by the Mangrove Creek trust.

Both Jump club and Pony Club have agreed to place a power point and pump for the water pump in the disabled toilet for other community groups to access and use the grounds.

The issue raised by both clubs is a lack of public liability cover, neither club has this insurance as our equestrian and related activities are covered by our overseeing associations. I have now contacted the Mangrove Creek Trust twice to ask if they as custodians of the grounds have public liability cover that could extend to the use of the toilets and those that use the grounds. To date I have not had any response.

Should you wish to try to contact the trust yourself...

We have not been idle and do want to make some facilities available,

Beverley Small - President Mangrove Mountain Pony Club

... so insurance is the issue
I will consider contacting the trustees, one (wishing anonymity) has contacted me before, but, as I recall, of the 7 trustees, 2 are from the PC and 2 from the JC, so this excuse seems a little odd/lame.

[Arthur Alchin (Arthur Alchin)]

Most big clubs have "sub clubs" associated with them like darts and fishing clubs etc. what if we were to all join something like Mingara recreational club and form a club within the club and use their pulling power to help us out??

It's only a thought, it cost $12 a year, can only talk to them and sus it out

Would also have a meeting place for the off times

[RB (Andrew)]

The Mingara Pony Club Astrophilosophical Society.
Sounds great.