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Old 28-06-2011, 11:40 AM
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Brian W (Brian)
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goes along with 'carbon tax'

Hi all, those wishing to be depressed (if you agree) or not if you don't, may wish to check out the following link that deals with global warming.

If the science is even close to correct it is an awesome future for the world.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...049568952.html

Brian
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Old 28-06-2011, 12:40 PM
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The whole problem with this entire debate IMO is that there will be an article just as convincing as this one but will be totally at odds with it.

One thing I do know is that it is human nature to only decide to get the tooth pulled out when it REALLY starts to hurt !!!
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Old 28-06-2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffkop View Post
The whole problem with this entire debate IMO is that there will be an article just as convincing as this one but will be totally at odds with it.

One thing I do know is that it is human nature to only decide to get the tooth pulled out when it REALLY starts to hurt !!!
Actually no there won't be. Nobody can, with the available datum, deny that the temperature is rising.

The question is now not 'is there global warming' but rather 'what is humanities contribution to global warming?'.

Obviously what one believes regarding the above question will dictate the actions taken or not taken.

Brian
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Old 28-06-2011, 01:28 PM
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Actually no there won't be. Nobody can, with the available datum, deny that the temperature is rising.

The question is now not 'is there global warming' but rather 'what is humanities contribution to global warming?'.

Brian
Agreed mate, in every respect ... but

Ive already read many articles that totally refute, (as convincingly as those that support) humanites major significance in the global warming debate ... Its a hot topic !!
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  #5  
Old 28-06-2011, 01:35 PM
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Agreed mate, in every respect ... but

Ive already read many articles that totally refute, (as convincingly as those that support) humanites major significance in the global warming debate ... Its a hot topic !!
Pun intended I am sure.

My opinion, and that plus a bit of money will buy you a coffee, is that we are in a regular cycle but that humanities contribution may well push it faster and further than is good for living breathing things like us and grasshoppers.

Brian
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Old 28-06-2011, 01:37 PM
Hagar (Doug)
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Currently temprature is rising is a given. The question needing definitive answers is why....... To impose a tax on CO2 is questionable at best when two massive volcanoes are pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere every minute than the entire world population does in a year. Who will pay this tax? It is just what it is, another tax mechanism. At least in my book anyway.
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Old 28-06-2011, 02:30 PM
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jenchris (Jennifer)
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William Pitt was better at it than us - he taxed light!
Window tax - brilliant - richer you are, the more windows you have, the more tax you pay -
Trouble is they bricked up all the windows in the mills and put in gas lighting because it was cheaper than paying window tax.

If we saved 100% of our greenhouse gas, China could replace that by increasing their output by 1%. Which they are doing every year.

All the CFC production machinery we dismantled ended up in China.
All the steam trains ended up in china all the coal fired steam machinery for power stations ended up in China -

They just bought a huge tract of farmland in NSW to enable them to mine the coal under it. You think they're going to stop?
And as a final stab, what on God's Earth are we selling our country to China for - that makes the bloody coal FREE - That should be stopped right now!
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Old 28-06-2011, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post
Currently temprature is rising is a given. The question needing definitive answers is why....... To impose a tax on CO2 is questionable at best when two massive volcanoes are pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere every minute than the entire world population does in a year. Who will pay this tax? It is just what it is, another tax mechanism. At least in my book anyway.
I agree Doug ... it is a real shame that governments have clouded this issue. For a start 50% or someother % close to that of the people are not going to agree with whats being touted simply on a political basis. Then throw into the mix the peoples distrust of how public monies are managed and therefore their sceptisisms and you've a giant smokescreen that even further fogs the agenda and shifts the focus from the real issue I think.

Still I go back to my original post ... That Ive read convincing argument from both sides of this debate and so Im no closer to deciding whats the right direction to head in ... From all Ive read from both camps however, I have formed the idea that maybe the balance point for all of this is much finer than most people think.
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  #9  
Old 28-06-2011, 06:53 PM
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I'm yet to be convinced either way whether it is real or not, but in my opinion, I just don't think it is logical to think that we can just continue to increasily pump excess amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere above what is naturally occuring and expect nothing to change. If anything were to come along and make people think about doing things more responsibly and reduce carbon emissions (or any other air pollutants for that matter), then that's a good thing in my book. Love it or hate it, I think that's what this tax will do.
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Old 28-06-2011, 06:58 PM
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Hi Doug,

hmmm - those emails do the rounds don't they? It seems as if that one may not necessarily be true if we were to believe this authenticated study (among plenty of others) ...

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article...&from=rss_home

The first three or four short paragraphs are the ones of interest.

Just my 2c



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post
Currently temprature is rising is a given. The question needing definitive answers is why....... To impose a tax on CO2 is questionable at best when two massive volcanoes are pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere every minute than the entire world population does in a year. Who will pay this tax? It is just what it is, another tax mechanism. At least in my book anyway.
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Old 28-06-2011, 07:01 PM
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Jen,

here here with this, especially regarding the sale of our land to China and the inherent giving away of the incumbent resources. Frankly, I can't believe we're so stupid as to do this. A child would know better.

Signed,
Disappointed of Stirling



Quote:
Originally Posted by jenchris View Post
William Pitt was better at it than us - he taxed light!
Window tax - brilliant - richer you are, the more windows you have, the more tax you pay -
Trouble is they bricked up all the windows in the mills and put in gas lighting because it was cheaper than paying window tax.

If we saved 100% of our greenhouse gas, China could replace that by increasing their output by 1%. Which they are doing every year.

All the CFC production machinery we dismantled ended up in China.
All the steam trains ended up in china all the coal fired steam machinery for power stations ended up in China -

They just bought a huge tract of farmland in NSW to enable them to mine the coal under it. You think they're going to stop?
And as a final stab, what on God's Earth are we selling our country to China for - that makes the bloody coal FREE - That should be stopped right now!
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  #12  
Old 28-06-2011, 07:02 PM
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Impose carbon tax

allow logging of old growth forrests in Tasmania

hypocrit's ain't they
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  #13  
Old 28-06-2011, 07:05 PM
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35 billion metric tons is not a number that even resonates inside my skull. Not that I don't agree with it ... or disagree... it is just too big for me to imagine.
Brian
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Old 28-06-2011, 09:30 PM
Hagar (Doug)
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Paul thanks for the link but being somewhat sceptical I find it hard to believe that a reaction the size of a large volcano burning every bit of material it touches is not going to produce CO2 and lots of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH View Post
Hi Doug,

hmmm - those emails do the rounds don't they? It seems as if that one may not necessarily be true if we were to believe this authenticated study (among plenty of others) ...

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article...&from=rss_home

The first three or four short paragraphs are the ones of interest.

Just my 2c
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  #15  
Old 28-06-2011, 11:44 PM
TrevorW
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40% of the worlds manufacturing is done in China and the US

http://en.mercopress.com/2011/03/15/...-us-leadership

do you think they have a carbon tax or in the case of china are concerned with the amount of pollution created
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  #16  
Old 29-06-2011, 07:26 PM
PeterM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post
Currently temprature is rising is a given. The question needing definitive answers is why....... To impose a tax on CO2 is questionable at best when two massive volcanoes are pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere every minute than the entire world population does in a year. Who will pay this tax? It is just what it is, another tax mechanism. At least in my book anyway.
I reckon Hagar is half right.
PeterM.
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  #17  
Old 29-06-2011, 08:37 PM
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The science is settled?

If the 'science is settled' then surely China and the US (the biggest polluters by far) would see the dangers and impose their own taxes? Hmmm.. nope, cant see it.

The biggest problem I have is with the so called 'scientific experts'. The sun appears to be the major driver of the Earth's climate and sunspot activity and has been very closely linked to the Earths temperature (the lower the number the colder the temperature...i.e the maunder minimum or little ice age http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum).

Per the article below the 'experts' certainly dont understand the sun's 11 year cycle, let along multi decade or multi century cycles. Yet they are convinced that one of the cheapest and most volumous forms of energy we have (coal) is going to cause a run away greenhouse effect on Earth and kill us all. The politicians of course love this because it means they can now tax the very air we breathe (every time you exhale you'll be taxed?) and then redistribute OUR money as they see fit ($500,000 BBQ roofs all round thanks). I want less tax and Government interference in my life, not more! Having said that, in this politically correct world, if China and the US tax their air, then I might be persuaded to let Gillard tax my air, but not before.

The original article that started this thread didn't mention record snow packs in the US that may not melt over this summer (start of a new glaciation period?) and a lot of other stats that are showing record cold temperatures (Darwin just hard the coldest June on record?).

See http://www.iceagenow.com/ for real life occurences that challenge the "science is settled" issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunspot
21st century
Measurements made in the latter part of the 2000s and based also on observation of infrared spectral lines, have suggested that sunspot activity may again be disappearing, possibly leading to a new minimum.[18] From 2007-2009, sunspot levels were far below average. In 2008, the Sun was spot-free 73 per cent of the time, extreme even for a solar minimum. Only 1913 was more pronounced, with 85 per cent of that year clear. The Sun continued to languish through mid-December 2009, when the largest group of sunspots to emerge for several years appeared. Even then, sunspot levels remained well below normal.[19]

In 2006, NASA made a prediction for the next sunspot maximum, being between 150 and 200 around the year 2011 (30-50% stronger than cycle 23), followed by a weak maximum at around 2022.[20] [21] The prediction did not come true. Instead, the sunspot cycle in 2010 was still at its minimum, where it should have been near its maximum, which shows the Sun's current unusual low activity.[22]
Due to a missing jet stream, fading spots, and slower activity near the poles independent scientists of the National Solar Observatory (NSO) and the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) now (2011) predict that the next 11-year solar sunspot cycle, Cycle 25, will be greatly reduced or may not happen at all.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/14/ice_age/
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceno...pot-cycle.html
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  #18  
Old 29-06-2011, 10:26 PM
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I heard from ABC Starstuff a similar report that the next sunspot cycle is possibly starting already but they err'ed to the side of climatology and said it will have negligible affect on increasing temperature.

Just have to wait and see on that one.
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