I've narrowed down my shopping list for my first scope to one of these ED80's...
Vixen ED80sf, or a Skywatcher Black Diamond ED80. Both are circa $1000.
I note there is also an Orion ED80T, but it's price is $300 more than the others. Is it really that much better?
Would appreciate any comment from someone who has been able to compare both the Vixen and Skywatcher, and maybe the Orion.
Do you plan on using these for visual or photography? These scopes would likely make for a good widefield / beginners photography scope but you might be better off with something else for visual.
I've only ever used the Skywatcher here, so I can't compare them on any more than specs. One thing to note is that if you plan on using the Skywatcher for photography, you will need to buy a new focuser. The stock one is incapable of handling any reasonable amount of weight and it's incredibly frustrating to try and use this. Mine actually broke fairly quickly, and I replaced it with a Moonlite focuser, worth about $500 shipped... and it was worth every cent. I'd expect a similar story with the other two options you've provided, but people who've actually owned them would obviously have a better idea :-)
If you don't plan on using it for visual use, you can get the SW ED BD 80 for about $750 without the eyepieces, diagonal or case. You could use the savings to buy a better focuser.
The Orion is a carbon fibre triplet that's a 480mm focal length and has a focal ratio of F/5.
The Skywatcher is a steel tube doublet that's 600mm in focal length and has a focal ratio of F/7.5. Same for the Vixen.
Bottom line is that the Vixen and Skywatcher have significantly greater focal length, which basically translates to magnification, which is sometimes good and sometimes bad depending on the size of the object you're interested in. The Orion on the other hand has about twice as much light coming through it due to the focal ratio (F/5 = more light than F/7.5). This can be very handy if you're trying to do widefield photography of dim nebula.
I've narrowed down my shopping list for my first scope to one of these ED80's...
Vixen ED80sf, or a Skywatcher Black Diamond ED80. Both are circa $1000.
Jim
Get yourself Celestron NexStar 90GT from Costco for $229. The advantages are good quality of image, brightness of 90 mm, and the Go To mount. And cheap.
Do you plan on using these for visual or photography? These scopes would likely make for a good widefield / beginners photography scope but you might be better off with something else for visual.
I've only ever used the Skywatcher here, so I can't compare them on any more than specs. One thing to note is that if you plan on using the Skywatcher for photography, you will need to buy a new focuser. The stock one is incapable of handling any reasonable amount of weight and it's incredibly frustrating to try and use this. Mine actually broke fairly quickly, and I replaced it with a Moonlite focuser, worth about $500 shipped... and it was worth every cent. I'd expect a similar story with the other two options you've provided, but people who've actually owned them would obviously have a better idea :-)
If you don't plan on using it for visual use, you can get the SW ED BD 80 for about $750 without the eyepieces, diagonal or case. You could use the savings to buy a better focuser.
The Orion is a carbon fibre triplet that's a 480mm focal length and has a focal ratio of F/5.
The Skywatcher is a steel tube doublet that's 600mm in focal length and has a focal ratio of F/7.5. Same for the Vixen.
Bottom line is that the Vixen and Skywatcher have significantly greater focal length, which basically translates to magnification, which is sometimes good and sometimes bad depending on the size of the object you're interested in. The Orion on the other hand has about twice as much light coming through it due to the focal ratio (F/5 = more light than F/7.5). This can be very handy if you're trying to do widefield photography of dim nebula.
I hope that's of some help... I'm sure someone else more knowledgable will be along shortly :-)
Thanks Lee. This is great information. Primary use is for visual, with occasional photography. I've used a Vixen ED80sf as was very impressed. Scope needs to be portable as well.
Last edited by JimsShed; 03-02-2015 at 11:20 PM.
Reason: Removed question about doublet or triplet. Link answers this.
The Orion ED80T CF is a superb widefield astrograph - light, short cooldown, short FL. I image with it at f/4.8 using a 0.8 FR. It's also a really nice portable visual scope... although I tend to favour my SW120 f/5 for that purpose, since it gobbles up so much more light and is still only a 600mm FL (yes, it is an achro, but for nebula/clusters etc. any CA is negligible and unnoticed).
The Orion ED80T CF is a superb widefield astrograph - light, short cooldown, short FL. I image with it at f/4.8 using a 0.8 FR. It's also a really nice portable visual scope... although I tend to favour my SW120 f/5 for that purpose, since it gobbles up so much more light and is still only a 600mm FL (yes, it is an achro, but for nebula/clusters etc. any CA is negligible and unnoticed).
Thanks for the info Barry. Having difficulty actually buying an SW or Orion ED80 at the moment. Shops can't get stock! Also out of EQ5 mounts! How does the sw120 compare to the ed80 for visual of planets?
Jim
Last edited by JimsShed; 08-02-2015 at 09:51 AM.
Reason: Typo; eq5 not eq6
The SW120 is great for low power and faint stuff, but not for planets - they are bright and require high power, which means you get chromatic aberration (colour fringing). This is avoided in the ED80T which is a corrected triplet.
I can recommend the SW ED80 for photography. I have got the version with the classical rack and pinion focuser, which holds very well and is precise enough for that focal length. I focus with a Bhatinov mask and fix the focuser with the lock srew. It holds the field flattener and the Canon 450d solidly. Visually that scope is only interesting for bright stuff, like the Moon or large bright nebula/clusters. The colours come out nicely and the field is large enough to fit the Orion and the Running Man in one field. Its highly portable and hassle free, makes an excellent choice for linar eclipses and gives good views of the gas giants when coupled to a powermate. I've never looked back and would always buy it again.
Btw: if you can, fork out the extra few bugs and buy the NEQ6 instead of the HEQ5. Trust me, you'll regret that decission once you start looking into astrophotography - and you will go there soon, like we all....
The stock one is incapable of handling any reasonable amount of weight and it's incredibly frustrating to try and use this.
Regarding the SW focuser, the standard focuser on the Skywatcher isn't that bad if you're using a DSLR. At worst, with some fine tuning it will do the job.
Skywatcher also have a very good focal reducer which screws on to the standard focuser and with a wide T adapter will nicely fill a full frame DSLR sensor.
I've used the standard SW 10:1 focuser with my 5D2 (Full frame and heavier than most dslr's without issues and without any modification whatsoever and it holds up no problem. I know that there are a lot of users out there that don't have problems with the stock focuser.
If you're going down the path of a dedicated astro camera, filter wheel etc then Lee's suggestion to replace the focuser is the way to go.
I agree with Phil,
I tried both the old R&P focuser and the single speed crayford version on my ED 80 and found they were both capable to holding on to my DLSR during imaging sessions. I suspect due to the wide field nature of the ed 80, there is a bit of tolerance in the focus.
Bo
I think that Max's statement presumes too much. Jim may never want
to go to anything larger than an 8" Newt, or a 9.25" SCT, both of which my HEQ5 Pro Go To will handle easily. The NEQ6 is a lot heavier, and quite a lot dearer, so I think Jim should be left to make his own
decision further down the track. I have had my 5 for several years, and have never wanted or needed anything larger.
raymo
Thanks all for your comments to date
Finally found a retailer with stock (Andrews Comms) and bit the bullet. On order is an SW ED80-BD and an EQ5Goto mount.
Thought long and hard about an Orion ED80T CF, and a HEQ5 mount, but in the end it came down to budget and needs. I'm confident this will be the right mix for my first scope (ooh did I say first ).
Same as Raymo says here and from me as well , what a great combo .
A sweet Saxon ED80 was my first APO many years ago and what a great scope these are , especially the sweet FPL53 glass they used in these , world class optics , like the original Celestron C8 back in the early 80's , a real game changer in amateur astronomy , yes congratulations and I guarantee you wont be disappointed with this set up . .
Oh yes these are good for a good 200x on the moon and planets , crisp and sharp images ,, nice APO's .
Here is mine on the EQ5 . the only upgrade I did was the seen here the GSO 10/1 focuser , the optics deserved this focuser.
good purchase.. i received mine about a week ago and to give you an idea of image heres one i took. its all washed out and heavily light polluted but even without the focal reducer / flattener still returns awesome images
I realise when I get my ED80 that I'm going to have to get some eye pieces because it only comes with a single 28mm piece.
I've tried a Baader 8-24mm Hyperion zoom and I've contemplated just getting one of those first up. It's obviously a quality item.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears good eye pieces become life-long possessions, so I'm okay with spending a bit on a choice few, even if I have to accumulate them one at a time.
Scope arrived on Thursday and got it together that evening and lugged it up the backyard for a quick non-motorised view around the sky. These mounts are heavy suckers!
Tonight (Valentines day) I got the GOTO up and running and after 3 attempts worked out the alignment. Had to lookup Starwalk on the iPad to identify some stars. I'm so new
Anyways...it all works! Freakin' amazed what's up there that you can't see with the naked eye, despite the glow of Brisbane to the East.
Glad to hear you got your scope up and running, the 80mm ED is a good choice. The 28mm that comes with it is not awful, but you will definitely get more out of it with some additional eyepieces.
There are plenty of people here who can give you advice in that department.
Be careful of your back when lugging that mount around and enjoy your new equipment!
).
Same as Raymo says here and from me as well , what a great combo .
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