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  #1  
Old 13-11-2016, 09:48 PM
m11 (Mel)
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Recommended eaa camera

Hi All,

Looking into electronic assisted astronomy to add another dimension to my viewing experience. I am planning to use it with:

Orion xx16g
Celestron se 6inch
Stellarvue sv90

In researching alot people like the zwo cameras, in particular the zwo asi224mc with Sharpcap or astrolive? I was planning to get the zwo asi 1600mc. Wanted to see if you guys would recommend either camera?
I am a complete newbie to ccd cameras.
Also is there an easy way to work out what backf ocus is required?

Thanks everyone.
M11
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  #2  
Old 14-11-2016, 07:24 AM
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If you mean Video astronomy then you should check out my astroshop for a start.
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Old 14-11-2016, 10:12 AM
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Mel

EAA, video astronomy, or whatever we call it needs its own section, or sub-section. There's a lot to discuss and it just gets lost in the single thread we currently have (the sticky currently in the beginner's equipment section). The first issue is that you need GOTO/tracking otherwise it will be nothing more than frustrating – and an EQ mount is better unless you have a fast scope and sensitive camera.

The camera depends on whether you want to view just on a TV/monitor or on a computer; whether you want DSOs or planetary. TV is thought by some to be the easiest and requires a camera with video output. There's a few around from Revolution Imagers, the G-star etc.

Sounds like you have a USB camera in mind. The advantage of a computer is that you can stack images (see some examples in the sticky). BUT - you can run the video cameras into a computer but the AD converters have low resolution.
- Some cameras have excellent dedicated software = Infinity and the lodestar/ultrastar (>$1000). These are CCD.
- there's the newer USB cameras which are really coming into their own for EAA – the smaller 1/3” 224 based ones, the bigger 4/3” 1600, and many others. The 224s – ZWO ASI224MC (Bintel), LP-GUIDE-C2 (myastroshop), there’s one from altair. They either have their own software, or there’s sharpcap (excellent and free), and astroliveusb (I’ve a\had trouble with this, but free if you have a zwo camera).

For your 6SE:
You'll need a sensitive camera to use short subs (<20sec), otherwise you'll get field rotation. The 224 and other 1/3-1/2” cameras has been used with great success - its very sensitive and really low read noise so you can do 1 - 15sec subs for many DSOs. Also, you need focal reduction to make it faster - get it down near F5. For example, see this thread on CN (224 and Revolution imager on a 6SE):
http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/54...ost-eaa-setup/
You need the smaller sensor 1/3-1/2” sensor like the 224 etc with this sort of focal reduction on an SCT (otherwise severe vignetting). And be careful with the length of the imaging train on an ALT-AZ mount.
If you want to use the 1600 (4/3”) you have to go much slower at F6-7 and this might not work on your ALT-AZ mount. Also, things like the infinity might not work for the same reason – it's a slower, more AP-like camera.
I’m using the 224MC with my 8” SCT at F3.5-5 and its good. I also use a DSLR, but up near F7-8 for smaller FOVs. And I’m on an EQ mount.

Your other scope is a 90mm APO F7. What mount is this on ?
If on an EQ GOTO, you can use the same camera, the infinity etc, but might need a bit of focal reduction. Or you can go for a larger sensor – you’ll get some great wide fast shots. I'm using the 224MC on my 80mm F5.9 APO (sometimes a bit of focal reduction). But I really like using a DSLR on it (EOS Utilities + astrotoaster), see Howie's youtube, post #194 in
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=139900
I’m thinking about the 1600 colour cooled to use on my APO and maybe an 8” F5 imaging newt (again see Howie’s youtube).

So. Maybe a 224-like camera is a good start ? Its not too expensive, and I’ve had some great fun on mine. But I’m biased so maybe others could comment. Or if you have a DSLR, or a camera from a guidescope lying around, just try them. Whatever, I would start off with a cheaper camera

Cheers, Chris
Sorry this was so long winded.
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Old 14-11-2016, 01:35 PM
m11 (Mel)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Klepp View Post
If you mean Video astronomy then you should check out my astroshop for a start.
Hi Derek,

Thanks for that, will do.

M11
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  #5  
Old 14-11-2016, 03:17 PM
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Hi Chris,

Much appreciated for your reply. Lots of information to digest and review and appreciate your time to provide such a detailed post.


I am planning to use the camera with a alt az goto tracking system with a laptop to live stack the images. I currently dont have a goto eq mount as yet.
I think you have convince me to get the zwo 224mc to start off with.
I have seen the cloudy night's eaa forum, something similiar would be awesome.
Yep i defintely need to get a focal reducer for the sct and the stellavue refractor.
I was going to ask if there is there an easy way to calculate backfocus with the camera and thr telescope you are using?

My thanks again for your advice.

M11
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  #6  
Old 14-11-2016, 10:00 PM
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Jim Thompson has done a bunch of calculations with a few focal reducers.
http://karmalimbo.com/aro/reports/

I use the meade 3.3 & 6.3 reducers, and I've got a 0.5x that came with my revolution imager. They are all good. I've got a bintel x0.5 reducer and its terrible.

The meades attach to the back of the SCT, then an SCT-T adaptor, then I use a range of t-spacers to the zwo camera. Allows me to alter the reduction.

A cheap okay one is the antares x0.5. IT just fits onto a 1.25 thread. And the ZWO cameras take both T and 1.25".

There's a lot of good help on CN with stuff like this
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  #7  
Old 15-11-2016, 06:57 AM
m11 (Mel)
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Hi Chris,

Thanks for the information. Now i just need to.get the camera to have a play.

Appreciate the advice and help.

M11
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  #8  
Old 15-11-2016, 07:15 PM
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Bintel is having a sale on ZWO cameras. $100 off the 224MC
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  #9  
Old 16-11-2016, 11:07 AM
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Bintel is having a sale on ZWO cameras. $100 off the 224MC
Where is this Chris I cant find it?
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  #10  
Old 16-11-2016, 11:32 AM
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Where is this Chris I cant find it?
https://binocularandtelescope.com.au/on-sale/

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  #11  
Old 16-11-2016, 11:34 AM
m11 (Mel)
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Hi Chris,

Got the email last night, thanks for that. I will be putting in my order soon for asi224.

Thanks,

M11
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  #12  
Old 16-11-2016, 11:34 AM
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IMO the 224 is a great chip - albeit small, but that's mitigated by fast f-ratios.

Don't be surprised to see thermal noise on a hot summer's night, it can't defeat the laws of physics! It'll easily stack out though for EAA
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  #13  
Old 16-11-2016, 12:09 PM
m11 (Mel)
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Hi Cam,

Thanks for that. I am keen to get this going. I find for me its always a challenge at the start.

I was recommended to go for the Atik Infinity or even the zwo1600mc but i will probably get the 224mc to try it out first. I see it as complementing my visual viewing

Thanks,

M11
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  #14  
Old 16-11-2016, 12:59 PM
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Oo thats is tempting. Just a USB cable and my tablet with some Sharpcap software. Tempting tempting.
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  #15  
Old 16-11-2016, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m11 View Post
I was recommended to go for the Atik Infinity or even the zwo1600mc but i will probably get the 224mc to try it out first. I see it as complementing my visual viewing
The Infinity is a good package but the same can be achieved with other cameras and free software, such as SharpCap and AstroToaster. The 224 makes for an excellent planetary imager also

Quote:
Originally Posted by AG Hybrid View Post
Oo thats is tempting. Just a USB cable and my tablet with some Sharpcap software. Tempting tempting.
As above, but the 224 would be a cracker with your 12" for planetary imaging...no dark sky necessary.
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  #16  
Old 16-11-2016, 03:58 PM
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Yeah I got it. Its better priced then what is going for in the US - before shipping. So good value there. How would I image with my dob? Just keep nudging with its 0.1 second exposure time?

Was thinking about using my MAK. Its like f14 Though.
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  #17  
Old 16-11-2016, 05:38 PM
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Yeah fair point...equatorial platform?

The software stacking (for DSO) would be fine on any tracking mount, longer exposures possible on an equatorial mount, but you'd still be good for several seconds on alt-az too. That's all the 224 would need to show some interesting stuff. For planetary, it's capable of well over 300fps. It's a versatile camera. As with visual though, a larger, faster scope is going to bring in more light.

f/14 is a good place to start for planetary too, but you can always throw a reducer on the back for DSOs.
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  #18  
Old 17-11-2016, 01:22 PM
m11 (Mel)
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Hi all,

Thanks for the heads up. I have put in my order to Bintel for the zwo224mc , they also have free delivery with the $100 off. If you use the btnew16 code when they ask for a coupon you also get another $16 off. Total $383.

Cant wait to try it out.

My thanks to Chris in particular for your advice and assistance

M11
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  #19  
Old 02-12-2016, 11:12 AM
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Can you use a ZWO 224MC on a 10" Skywatcher Dob with a drive?

(COMPUTERISED Black Diamond Flex-tube 10" Go-To Dobsonian)
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  #20  
Old 02-12-2016, 12:40 PM
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Can you use a ZWO 224MC on a 10" Skywatcher Dob with a drive?

(COMPUTERISED Black Diamond Flex-tube 10" Go-To Dobsonian)
Yep. If you can get the tracking good. You'll get image rotation in longer exposures but software should be able to de-rotate images.
In the interest in reducing star trails lots of sub 2 second exposures should do the job. I saw a demonstration/video of ZWO camera and sharpcap for EAA with sub 1 second exposures just constantly stacking. Looks great. Can't wait to use my ZWO 224MC. But I put it under the Christmas tree. For the first time since the year 2000 Ill actually have something exciting to open on Christmas day.
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