ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
Waning Gibbous 93.4%
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03-09-2018, 04:28 PM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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9mm Nagler vs 10mm delos
Hi,
I'm looking for a quality eyepiece that I can use for high magnification in my 180 mak. I currently have an ED 8mm, but at 338x I don't think it will be used a lot of the time.
The 9mm Nagler will give me 300x, which might still be pushing it, while the 10mm delos will give 270x. Most observing is done in suburban Melbourne, with the occasional trip to darker skies.
I'm leaning towards the delos, as I think this will get the most use, but I'd be very interested to know what more experienced members think as well. At this stage I'm only considering televue eyepieces, so would love to hear of others' experiences with these in a 180 mak.
Cheers
Stephen
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03-09-2018, 08:20 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Medlow Bath
Posts: 555
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Hi Stephen, I use Pentax XW 10 and 7mm, as well as a Delos 6mm.I also use TV Delites 11 and 7mm. If you can live with a 60 degree view, the 11mm Delite is great. When seeing allows, the Delos 6mm is exceptional on the moon. I recently got an ES8.8mm 82 degree, also a great eyepiece for Lunar viewing. The Radians are good as well, the 14mm (192x) being the most used EP in my SW180 Mak.
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04-09-2018, 08:12 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney and South Coast NSW
Posts: 6,057
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Hi Stephen
I’ve been using Televue eyepieces for 2 years now and have Ethos, Delos and Panoptic which I use in my 10” dob and 6” newt
I sold my 7mm delite when I looked through some high power Delos
My favourite high power eye pieces for lunar and planetary viewing would be my 6mm and 10mm Delos and 8mm Ethos , truly outstanding eye pieces
When viewing permits I bring out my 4.7mm Ethos and 4.5mm Delos
Delites are a superb eye pieces but not in the same league as their bigger brothers
I also have the full range of Powermates which I use to complement my eye piece range and also use for planetary and lunar astrophotography
You pay for what you get with teleview ,I wouldn’t use anything else ,they are lifetime quality investment
Martin
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04-09-2018, 08:34 AM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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Thanks Gus and Startrek,
I also think they're a lifetime investment, and am pretty comfortable with the notion that whether televue, pentax or similar the performance will be top notch. My experience has been with televue, so for now I'll keep building my basic eyepiece set with these. My 35mm panoptic is a wonderful eyepiece. The radians are discontinued aren't they? I'll have to keep a look out for a used one.
I've read interesting comparisons between nagler and delos, most suggesting the delos, being a more recent design, has the edge over the nagler. I'm interested to know whether there is a case for either 300x or 270x being a magnification useful 85% of the time? Is there a generally agreed magnification limit for typical urban conditions?
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04-09-2018, 01:58 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney and South Coast NSW
Posts: 6,057
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Stephen,
From my experience the night sky is a continuous moving target as far as seeing conditions, it changes from night to night , season to season and location to location but if I had to put a general magnification limit it would be the following -
Suburbs (sa 30 to 40 km from CBD ) 180 x magnification
Regional or Rural town 250 x magnification
Dark site + 300 x magnification
I don’t know if this helps as like I said the seeing conditions are ever changing phenomena. There have been some nights in Sydney where I used a 4.7mm Ethos ( 265 x mag ) and observe Jupiter in excellent detail.
I would recommend buying a powermate ( say 2 x) at some stage to give you some flexibility with your eye piece collection
Good luck !
Martin
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24-10-2018, 12:33 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 64
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Sooooo. What did you buy Stephen?
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24-10-2018, 01:13 PM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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Well, I haven't made a final decision yet, but I've ordered a 2" Baader BBHS mirror diagonal. If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it properly and make sure all parts of the optical chain are the best I can afford to get. The diagonal is around the same price as a Delos, so it's going to take a while to get this paid off. Meantime I'll keep considering options.
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24-10-2018, 01:25 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morls
Well, I haven't made a final decision yet, but I've ordered a 2" Baader BBHS mirror diagonal. If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it properly and make sure all parts of the optical chain are the best I can afford to get. The diagonal is around the same price as a Delos, so it's going to take a while to get this paid off. Meantime I'll keep considering options.
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Is it purely magnification that's your driving force.
Any design, FOV, eye relief etc coming into it?
Any reason you chose the Baader over Tele Vue?
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24-10-2018, 02:12 PM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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I'm looking for high magnification, neutral colour and good eye relief.
As far as the Baader, I've been checking out reviews and this seemed to rate very highly. I also like the click-lock.
Cheers
Stephen
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24-10-2018, 02:12 PM
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Refractors-That’s It
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Rangeville, Toowoomba
Posts: 440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morls
Well, I haven't made a final decision yet, but I've ordered a 2" Baader BBHS mirror diagonal. If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it properly and make sure all parts of the optical chain are the best I can afford to get. The diagonal is around the same price as a Delos, so it's going to take a while to get this paid off. Meantime I'll keep considering options.
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Hi Stephen
Smart move I have this diagonal and is without any doubt in my mind the best mirror diagonal I have ever used ,Coupled with a Tak FS60Q,Nikon Nav 17mm HW the views I’ve had with this configuration are no less than amazing
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24-10-2018, 02:42 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morls
I'm looking for high magnification, neutral colour and good eye relief.
As far as the Baader, I've been checking out reviews and this seemed to rate very highly. I also like the click-lock.
Cheers
Stephen
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Yeh nice. I am thinking either of these two as well as an additional 6mm Delos.
I like the long eye relief of the Delos
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24-10-2018, 03:25 PM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab1963
I have this diagonal and is without any doubt in my mind the best mirror diagonal I have ever used
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Good to hear of your experience Andrew. Looking forward to getting mine mid-November (ish...)
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09-11-2018, 10:40 AM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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The Baader diagonal arrived a few days ago, and it must be fantastic because we've had record hail storms and cloudy nights ever since...
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16-11-2018, 02:49 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morls
The Baader diagonal arrived a few days ago, and it must be fantastic because we've had record hail storms and cloudy nights ever since...
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That's generally how it goes.
Have you managed to use it yet? Notice a big difference?
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16-11-2018, 05:00 PM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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18-11-2018, 10:25 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Killara, Sydney
Posts: 4,147
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Having had three of these scopes I can say a lot depends on how good your particular scope really is. The best of the ones I had often handled an 8mm - 340X or 1.8 per mm of aperture quite well.
Mental’s M715D can manage 2.5X per mm, as does my MK91.
This is primarily a function of the quality of your objective (ie the scope), not the eyepiece. For example Dawes recommended 80X per inch of aperture / 3X per mm - which indicates that some of the old refractors used 100 or 200 years ago did indeed have exquisite objectives despite the rather modest eyepieces (Huygens or Ramsdens) and lack of modern coatings.
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19-11-2018, 08:43 AM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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That's interesting Nick. The latest observations with this scope have been encouraging - last night I was again able to use the 8mm on the moon, and I don't think the seeing was particularly good. This is twice in as many sessions after getting the diagonal and tweaking the collimation, whereas before these changes I hadn't been able to use the 8mm at all.
I'm going to keep my options open regarding which focal length Delos I'll get in this range of magnification, and might try some cheaper options at 9, 8 and maybe even 7 (380x) to see what this setup is capable of before putting down the big bucks on a premium.
I've also ordered in a Baader Steeltrack focuser, so I'm slowly getting things lined up to push the optics.
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21-11-2018, 05:45 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morls
That's interesting Nick. The latest observations with this scope have been encouraging - last night I was again able to use the 8mm on the moon, and I don't think the seeing was particularly good. This is twice in as many sessions after getting the diagonal and tweaking the collimation, whereas before these changes I hadn't been able to use the 8mm at all.
I'm going to keep my options open regarding which focal length Delos I'll get in this range of magnification, and might try some cheaper options at 9, 8 and maybe even 7 (380x) to see what this setup is capable of before putting down the big bucks on a premium.
I've also ordered in a Baader Steeltrack focuser, so I'm slowly getting things lined up to push the optics.
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Why add the rear mounted focuser? Adding the length on the back end will increase the focal length of the scope and narrow the true field of each eyepiece. That is an add-on oriented to the astrophotographer who needs to make sure the image doesn't move when focusing, but that's not important for visual use. I would have spent the money on eyepieces.
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21-11-2018, 06:48 PM
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Space is the place...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Pensack
Why add the rear mounted focuser?
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Hi Don, the main reason is because I want to have finer control than I can get with the internal focuser, and the elimination of mirror shift will be a bonus as well.
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22-11-2018, 01:30 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morls
Hi Don, the main reason is because I want to have finer control than I can get with the internal focuser, and the elimination of mirror shift will be a bonus as well.
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Then replace the focuser with a Starlight Instruments 2-speed focuser replacement or add the JMI 2-speed add on. Both of those give you very fine control without adding focal length to the scope.
For every 10mm of additional rear length you add, you add 31mm to the focal length of the scope. You'll end up with an even longer focal ratio than the long f/ratio the scope already has.
Your scope already has a narrow field of view; you probably don't want to make it even narrower.
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