If you want the scientific information that debunks this "documentary" soon to be shown on an ABC near you.
It gives all references etc so you can make up your own mind.
I personally think that this "documentary" is almost tabloid television but just with more than the usual lies it also includes all out fraud!
Bert
"usual lies it also includes all out fraud" sounds like a well informed and considered view. Would you care to rebut it point by point, or would you prefer the bold sweeping assertion?
I do not have the time to waste on scientifically uneducated journalists making unsubstantiated assertions. Most of that list is right wing think tanks or journos with the correct attitude. Nothing is peer reviewed.
As for the author of this http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFo...ouse_data.html
Some quick info
Fred Singer. Despite the caption on the programme, Singer has retired from the University of Virginia and has not had a single article accepted for any peer-reviewed scientific journal for 20 years. His main work has been as a hired gun for business interests to undermine scientific research on environmental and health matters. Before turning to climate change denial he has argued that CFCs do not cause ozone depletion and second hand smoke does not cause cancer (more… ). In 1990 he founded “The Science and Environment Policy Project”, which aggressively contradicts climate science and has received direct funding from Exxon, Shell, Unocal and ARCO. Exxon is also among the funders ($20,000 in 1998 and 2000)
Bert
This so called documentary is just more of the same.
Like a lot of these types of issues, each side of the argument has their own barrow to push. The oil companies and nuclear proponents say we have heaps of oil and nuclear is a clean alternative etc.
The "greenies" would have everyone revert to riding horses to work, living on 5 acres and be self sufficient in food and energy...how big would the urban sprawl be then.
I think the "truth" lies somewhere between the two. I guess it is up to everyone to try to find "their truth" from the information available. Even if we had no global warming issue and enough oil to last a hundred centuries, we should still never waste energy. If we all try to do our bit to save energy and resources, we will all be at least doing something for the environment, regardless of wether the issues are true or not.
The "greenies" would have everyone revert to riding horses to work, living on 5 acres and be self sufficient in food and energy...how big would the urban sprawl be then.
I live on 5 acres, practice permaculture and hoping to go full solar and off the grid one day.
The fresh air and dark skies are wonderful.
Haven't got a horse though.
If people spread out a bit and stopped living on top of each other they all might be a bit less uptight and stressed.
Of cause pumping all that C02 into the air wont do any damage to the earth fossil fuels are 100% safe for the earth. We can increasing our CO2 out put even more look at Venus its only that hot because its near the sun CO2 has nothing to do with it. Just like smokes are 100% safe to smoke and asbestos is so safe you could eat it......................
Global warming cannot be true because the people backed by oil/coal company's say its safe and its a lie. They still have billions of $$$$$ still to be made from it every day so it must be OK - Its a known fact a lot of scientists work for a wage and say stuff to keep their jobs and not stuff that is 100% true.
We have to be doing some damage to the earth with all the CO2 we are pumping into the air, because its not natural for the earth. In a world without humans the air would be a lot different, the only problem is if its real (which I for one do) it will be to late we don't have to worry because it will not happen in our life time but what about in 200 years from now.
I really miss the ideological, ratbag uni students who counterbalanced the powerful conservatives on important issues of the day. Where are the mass protests and arrests of years gone by? Is the current batch not made of the right stuff? Are they too busy working to pay their way through uni? Have they turned conservative?
I seriously doubt that anyone here on this forum will have the necessary political connections, education and direct interest in the topic to warrant a seriously objective opinion.
We are all mushrooms, and although we all love to have a pet theory and "educated" opinion of our own, we can only base these on what he hear (on both sides of the debate) and what those around us believe. Our experiance will always be environmentally-fed, and I doubt that any of us will ever truly know what is going on.
I think that this example of fraud at worst or deception at best is very easy to understand by anyone. All I am trying to point out is that there are vast powerful interests that are trying to cloud the Global Warming issue.
We are all guilty of contributing to Global Warming and unless we all slow down our use of fossil fuels we wont have a planet left to argue over.
Tough problems that the world faces. The world's population is predicted to almost double again. What standard of living (including energy requirement) should this world population have? I have been told that the Chinese government have what would seem to be a most reasonable goal - that each family has a refrigerator. I understand that refrigerator ownership in rural areas is around 3%. To achieve this goal on current energy performance of refrigerators would require something like 10 additional large base-load power stations. These are huge, global issues with no quick fix.
But we can make a difference at election time by voting for someone interested in promoting solar energy rather than coal or uranium.
I just put a Sharp 80-Watt module through its paces this morning in my back yard casstony "before the clouds rolled in luckily". It pumps out around 4.5 amps at 17 volts in full sunlight. I bought it a year ago for $800 when I read about the silicone shortage and decided to dig it out and use it to recharge my batteries when away on astrocamp.
Now I don't want to spoil your concept of a renewable planet but do you have any idea how much fossil energy is used to construct a single solar panel? To make the modules you have to melt sand and extract silicone, then refine it in a massive hi-tech vessels that cost a fortune. The silver for the wiring needs to be mined by heavy equipment and refined to 99.9% pure. You need to mine bauxite and refine it into alumina, then convert the alumina to aluminium by literally melting the ore with huge amounts of electrical current.
More energy is used in these processes than the solar modules could ever hope to produce in there lifespan. Then include the fuel shipping them from Japan and you see that we only have these solar modules because oil and coal have done all the work in making them for us. They did a study, to see if you could make solar panels just on the energy produced by solar panels. It was a joke!
Take away the oil and coal and you take away nearly every "renewable" source of energy on the planet I am afraid. How do you build dams and install generators for hydro without oil and coal? How do you manufacture hi tech components and steel towers for wind generators? Even Ethanol doesn't work without oil and coal. It's all a dream I am afraid, a dream cooked up by Uni professors seeking grants and by big business seeking government subsities.
I can not say much on this issue that I have not said before.
I have taken time to look at it in a great a depth as I can.. and I get into it when I get into it as they say...
I believe, and can offer authorities central to my view, that the following although simple is the best I can make of it all.
The world is getting hotter inevitably due to a historic climate change show to occur over the ages.
Humans may or may not be contributing to the warming.
There is no way humans can stop the climate getting hotter even if they left absolutly no foot print...that is the key..we wont stop it.
Certain humans seek to say humans can control the temperature of the planet by reducing green house gas output and that because it is in theory possible that it can be managed this way.. that in the real world it will be done...nay no way... does anyone think for one moment you can stop it , let alone reduce it.. do the sums..just do the sums.
The focus and the guilt leaves the hotter future as a solvable problem....it is not.... we wont solve this problem all we can do is figure how to survive in a hotter world.. If they say the sea will come up don't count on going nuclear will prevent it...
China and India have plans for 800 coal powered stations so I believe ..every effort that the West can make is water off the ducks back.. take whatever view you like... just understand the science... whatever you want it to say.. it says its getting hotter and follows historic cycles and finally there is zip we can do...
Polution and green house gas in this context is almost a side issue..but dont think we will win... it will take a major event where billions of people die to change things and the change will only be because there are less humans not that they have changed their ways.
The human responses are to put in better power stations etc when we should be thinking of what is happening to our food production, or water, our beaches..relocation of cities if the seas are going to rise..
Any one can form a view... but don't then be manipulated by folk who see profit in the calamity..Nuclear wont help..the only way nuclear is getting a hearing is because they pretend their contribution will solve the problem... it wont..going nuclear should be determined on other issues..cost effectiveness will rule it out...we are told profit is the GOD ...desalination rides high on the back of global warming the sky is falling marketing.. getting a desalinator should be determined on other considerations..again cost effective is the way to go..these things make water very expensive.
Our nation can profit by the changes that will occur .. I hope the seas rise I will get an island out of it..great...we can see opportunities but the folk selling the power stations don't want us to realise that our greatest asset is the Sun... our Sun shines all the time on our country...solar panel handle local demand easily ..12 vlts works so much..240 is used simply for transmission.. saves money on thick wire by going 240.
Imagine these solar furnaces that are proving the Sun really works..there is all the heat you want for a boiler for the steam turbine... what a way to open Australia..towns built like those around the Snowey but these towns service a solar furnace ...you can transport electricity around the world easier than oil...
This crap we get fed makes us feel guilty and we should fall for it..well everyone is entitled to their opinion ...but go for an opinion not based on guilt and one turned to facing the long term realities of living on this wonderful but changing planet.
The bright side I see is a lot of folk have a mission and a job out of this industry that's the only way it can be... and improvements will be made..that is good...but if we are serious a major long term problem is before us do we go out to meet it or wait for it to arrive???
I don't want to talk on this issue with an election in the wind. It should not be an election issue...vested interests still control the game..the only difference these days is we can see it...can we do anything ..I doubt it..
I would prefer our election to turn on issues that bring better comfort, health and well being to our citizens..this should be the focus.
The war etc should be similar..have your dam war just take care of home first is all we ask...
Why is petrol pricing a joke.
.why do Corporate criminals get away with theft.
.why is there no Government inspectors studying the books and seeing statutory requirements are or are not being met...
Security for all our superfunds.. you dont hear from those embarrassed to tell of their saving swindled..they feel the guilt and the villian escapes.
Maybe fix the transport system rather than spend 6 billion dollars between Sydney and Melbourne on desalinators plants..
Sell us something we need..you can still get the 6 billion from building us train lines and hospitals...
So on the dark side... sit back and see how GW will take out eye off the ball leading to the election.
