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Old 30-07-2014, 07:33 AM
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glenc (Glen)
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LEDs could slash street light energy

LEDs could slash street light energy usage by 97%

Furthermore, with LED lighting the public can maintain a sense of security while reducing light pollution, which affects some people’s ability to sleep – not to mention the efforts of stargazers, who are currently hindered in practicing their hobby in and around cities.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/leds...ge-by-97-16446
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Old 30-07-2014, 07:54 AM
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It is incomprehensible to me why what is arguably gross waste associated with street lighting has not been addressed.
While in hospital I was up from 3 am only getting to sleep around dawn.
I sat at my window with a view over much of the area.
Lights everywhere and over kill to boot..6 lights where 2 would do the job.
In all the time I spent at the window not a sole or vehicle was observed.
It could have been totally dark and no one would have been inconvenienced.
All the subsidies for renewables could not something go to address this area
Thanks for the link I should have looked at it first but will do so now.
I can now walk with a stick even without but I need it for security don't want a broken hip on top of everything
Best wishes alex
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Old 30-07-2014, 08:01 AM
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Great link very encouraging.
Grab a franchise there is a fortune to be made.
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Old 30-07-2014, 09:12 AM
sharkbite
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Don't get too excited...

Firstly let me say that i am a keen advocate of LED lighting - my house
is fully converted to LED.
My other hobby is Scuba diving - and am an electronic engineer by profession.
I have been building my own dive lights for me and others for the better part of the last decade. underwater dive lights (apart from the need to be waterproof!) need to be as light and as efficient as possible.
Incandescent dive lights have gone the way of the dodo and HID are quite bulky for the light output (albeit probably the best suited type of light for u/w)
LED are cheaper and easier to build, and the most efficient
way of producing bulk light underwater.

The posted article is interesting, but stretches the truth somewhat.

Firstly - mercury vapour lamps produce about 50 LM/W (not 30 as stated in the article)

Secondly - the maximum theoretical output from LED is around 300 LM/W
(current technology gives us about 125 in commercially available units)
hard to see how we will get to the 400 LM/W stated in the article.

The major challenge with LED is keeping them cool -
they don't like going over 50C - if they do for any long period they
will destroy themselves pretty quickly.

That is why most commercial units at the moment are quite low powered - they have to be to keep the heat and associated temps below the self-destruct point. Aussie streetlamps have to sit outside all day
every day - i'm sure our sun can easily bake LED's to more than 50C.

Lumen efficiency is one side to the story -
mercury vapour happens to work very well because our eyes are very sensitive to the light frequencies they output - so we dont need large wattage lamps to light up a highway.

Apart from some stretches of freeway - most of the lamps round here in sydney are either xenon HID or fluorescent - which have around the same
efficiency as LED, if not the lifespan.

Where LED has a clear advantage - is the fact that they can be turned on and off quickly and often.
(mercury vapour or HID takes a few minutes to come up, and needs to cool before being re-started)
The idea of the highway lights only coming on when they sense a car coming is where a lot of savings can be made....
also having solar charged batteries poer pole instead of having to string up thousands of k's of copper....
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Old 30-07-2014, 09:38 AM
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Thanks sharkbite
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Old 30-07-2014, 10:05 AM
kkara4 (Krishan)
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here is the spectral output of a Cree XM-L Cool White LED (typical of white LEDs of the same colour temperature).

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/pic...pictureid=5004

As can be seen, from a purely spectral point of view, converting all sodium lamps to LED would be disastrous in terms of light pollution.

However this will not be the case, because an LED can be very easily and highly efficiently controlled in terms of optical spread. This will be the key difference, with high optical efficiency luminaires produced, as opposed to the nasty streetlights currently used which throw mercury/HP sodium light all over the joint.

Inevitably there will be back scattering, but IMO, LED will certainly reduce LP overall.

Because of the broad spectrum though, it will be impossible to filter out completely, unlike LP sodium or mercury vapour which produce light at fairly specific wavelengths.

Generally also agree with Sharkbite's post as a fellow electrical engineer
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Old 30-07-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkbite View Post
The major challenge with LED is keeping them cool -
they don't like going over 50C - if they do for any long period they
will destroy themselves pretty quickly.
Thanks for the expert comments.

Is that only when they are operating or at all times? Is there an efficient way to passively or actively cool them?
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Old 30-07-2014, 12:50 PM
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I had heard of some passive cooling methods that were in the pipeline but I never saw any details. I suspect they were a bit pie in the sky. Supposedly methods of moving air involving no moving parts

I don't see any reason why heat pipe tech could not be used to help cool LED lights. It is in common use to cool high heat components on PC motherboards and has been for years. It would help out in in home lighting where retrofit lamps are generally placed somewhere quite hot (Recessed lighting) so your heat sink ends up in a hot area. Better to put the heat sink somewhere cooler and pipe the heat off the junction to there instead. Complete replacement downlights do not suffer that problem though as the heat sink ends up in your roof space. I am not sold on downlights in any form as such due to all the holes you have to punch in your ceiling insulation to fit them. Terribly uncool but I see no great advantage over an LED lamp in a GLS form.

Regards operating temperature or ambient, I am sure that the hotter it is the worse it is regardless of operation but to my understanding operating temperature is far more critical.

I am going down the path of converting things to LED in the home, we are slowly getting there, the problem is that most of our lighting is fluorescent, the hardest type to justify changing over if it is still serviceable.

I want to re light my whole shed and it will cost thousands to do it in LED just in the luminaires versus hundreds to replace the old fluoro assemblies with new ones. The power consumption difference is marginal enough that if I am honest, LED will never pay for itself. I would save more by getting the sparky to rearrange the wiring so I can switch them more intelligently to light only my work area of the time rather than half of a 26 X 75 foot shed when I just want to go work in one corner.
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Old 30-07-2014, 12:56 PM
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when they are switched on - much over their limit and they stop funtioning with a nice 'pop' and a puff of smoke.

siwtched off is much less of a risk, but they will degrade over time.

active cooling is a bad idea - defeats the purpose of them being more efficient by needing to use power to keep them cool

passive cooling is the go - basically thermally bond them to
a ruddy great piece of aluminium.

The commercial LED bulb replacements use this method - they are around the 10-15 watt mark which leaves plenty of room for heat dissipation
for the same size as an old incandescent. They are roughly 4 times as efficient- so equivalent to a 40-60 watt globe.
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Old 30-07-2014, 12:58 PM
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Mind you, reading that link, it seems a bit optimistic to me too. I can't see 400 lumen per watt coming any time soon, and in one sentence it says 400lm/w at high quality (CRI) for street lighting then the next goes on to say soon after that that street lighting will trade off light quality (Implying it will get them to the 400lm/w) as a high CRI is not required (Which I agree with anyway)

I am not so sure of the active lighting approach for roadway lighting, unless cars are detected at quite some distance it will reduce the effectiveness of lighting as a landmark in the distance will become harder to see until you get closer before suddenly brightening. If it was in a residential type area the effective strobing of the street lighting in response to traffic could be pretty unpleasant to live with too.
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Old 30-07-2014, 12:58 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkbite View Post
passive cooling is the go - basically thermally bond them to
a ruddy great piece of aluminium.
How about drilling those tall light poles at the bottom and at the top. I reckon they're long enough to create a chimney effect and generate their own fanning system.
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Old 30-07-2014, 06:40 PM
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LEDs seem to be a kind of double edged sword. Certainly in terms of energy and output they tick the boxes that local governments need to see and in theory seem like a good idea.

As far as stargazers go or more importantly for the imagers as it has been pointed out above they cover a broad spectrum and are all but impossible to filter out entirely.

Reports from the UK where there is mass implementing of new LED lights and lighting schemes tend to vary council by council. Some feel that the overall night sky is darker above and definitely less orange so it's an improvement there but at ground level it is much brighter.
Others despite all the hype of enhanced directionabilty, shielding, etc are faced with much brighter lights on higher poles illuminating their yards more than the sodiums ever did. There are some frankly scary before and after shots floating around.
http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/newstreet-l...idgeshire.html

That said they are often installed with a dimming program after midnight or better yet a complete switch off which and these plans when successful often have major benefits in addition to darker skies.

Ultimately though it does seem clear that the success of LEDs will come down to individual councils taking a sensible and pro-active approach with these new installations.

There should be no reason for these lights or any to trespass on your property and the claim they are more directional should make that possible. And if they do, complain.
That should be a first, and any council should be willing to install shielding upon request.

Dimming and switch offs appear to be the way forward as well. If for little other reason that saving energy costs but it can also have positive effects on human and animal health as well as crime levels.

I guess all you can do is keep an eye on what your local council proposes and then to keep on top of them.
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Old 30-07-2014, 10:24 PM
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Now if lights were charged to LEDs another benefit would be they could be used in a mesh network. 3GB/s per colour. Dimming the lights wouldn't effect the speed. That would be a hell of a connection to the internet.
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Old 31-07-2014, 09:27 AM
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ZeroID (Brent)
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I redid our house with Halogens and a few flouros a few years back, expensive enough and they occaisonally pop the transformers or bulbs if we get a surge. Trouble is leds go back to being compatible with the old fittings .... which I removed and threw away ... doh !
Still got a few old fittings in low usage areas and I have replaced them with led bulbs quite effectively.
Next time round I am doing a bit of a update of a room I will switch to leds. The halogens did make a difference in the power bill.
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