Synscan Firmware 4.38.09 - Daytime Alignment

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Hi all,
Picked up my scope yesterday from Andrews and trying to learn how to use it Skywatcher 200/1000 Newt + NEQ6pro.

Yesterday was mixed.

1) Nearly took my little finger off while adjusting the Altitude Adjustment T-bolts. I had both bolts in and had my left hand rested on the front one while winding in the back one. I was just about up to Sydney's latitude by winding the back one and the whole thing then fell forward on my little finger, which was on top of the front bolt. The force was so much it bent the bolt. It hurt! Also left a nice chunk of my finger behind.

2) I got to see Saturn - that was fun.

Now for my question. I have updated my Synscan controller to V4.38.09, which says it now has daytime alignment using sun. For the life of me I cannot get this option to show up. I just see stars when I choose one star alignment. I don't see any other options.

Any help much appreciate.

Thanks
Mick

[madwayne (Wayne)]

Hi Mick

Whatever you do, DO NOT point an unfiltered telescope at the Sun. You will destroy it and any eye that is looking through it at the time. My apologies if you already knew this but just making sure.

Daytime alignment using the Sun, sounds interesting. Can't help you with that though.

Clear skies!

Wayne

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by madwayne

Hi Mick

Whatever you do, DO NOT point an unfiltered telescope at the Sun. You will destroy it and any eye that is looking through it at the time. My apologies if you already knew this but just making sure.

Daytime alignment using the Sun, sounds interesting. Can't help you with that though.

Clear skies!

Wayne

Thanks Wayne. Yep, I have pre-made Baader solar filter ND5.0 covering the entire aperture of the scope. I understand the need to warn.

[iborg (Philip)]

Don't forget to cover the finder scope! Again, you probably have thought of this.

[Blue-Echo (Nick)]

Hi Mick,

I was searching in vain some months ago for the latest synscan update, but without luck Where did you download it from?
Cheers, Nick

[Malcolm]

mikeyjames: Once you have completed the location, date and time, then Y or N to daylight saving, you are faced with 1-Y or 2-N to align, select Y and then using the scroll through buttons choose daytime align, the handset will then search for objects. Sun or the Moon if it is up. I did a daytime align on the Moon this morning. A number 14 welders glass taped over the finder can assist with locating the Sun. Also check the shadow on the ground, the smallest shadow cast will put you close to the Sun.
A white light offset solar filter can be made using Baader Solar Film, find on eBay, and use sturdy cardboard to make the filter housing. I used mdf. The offset hole is placed in-between the spiders that hold the secondary mirror. Larger than this is not required. Clear Skies! :-)

[sil (Steve)]

Originally Posted by mikeyjames

Now for my question. I have updated my Synscan controller to V4.38.09, which says it now has daytime alignment using sun. For the life of me I cannot get this option to show up. I just see stars when I choose one star alignment. I don't see any other options.

Choosing the sun as an option is usually a seperate option you HAVE to enable before the sun shows in the list. Its often buried in the options deep somewhere to discourage people casually enabling it. If you can find a menu tree for your handset you might be able to find the relevant option.

This is because of the obvious dangers with pointing magnifying optics at the sun. Along with the repeated warnings from others (always good to point out) make sure you keep your guidescope covered too. A length of empty pipe laid parallel to your scope's axis is all you need for good alignment of the sun when using a solar filter. You move the scope until the pipe makes a small ring shadow on the ground (indicating the sun can be seen clear through it). There are other alignment options too, the scope tube alone making a minimal shadow is enough for some.

Good polar alignment is still needed for sun alignment and tracking to be effective too.

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by Blue-Echo

Hi Mick,

I was searching in vain some months ago for the latest synscan update, but without luck Where did you download it from?
Cheers, Nick

Hi Nick,
I got it from

http://www.skywatcher.com/download/software/

I think it was only recently released.

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by Malcolm

mikeyjames: Once you have completed the location, date and time, then Y or N to daylight saving, you are faced with 1-Y or 2-N to align, select Y and then using the scroll through buttons choose daytime align, the handset will then search for objects. Sun or the Moon if it is up. I did a daytime align on the Moon this morning. A number 14 welders glass taped over the finder can assist with locating the Sun. Also check the shadow on the ground, the smallest shadow cast will put you close to the Sun.
A white light offset solar filter can be made using Baader Solar Film, find on eBay, and use sturdy cardboard to make the filter housing. I used mdf. The offset hole is placed in-between the spiders that hold the secondary mirror. Larger than this is not required. Clear Skies! :-)

Thank you.

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by sil

Choosing the sun as an option is usually a seperate option you HAVE to enable before the sun shows in the list. Its often buried in the options deep somewhere to discourage people casually enabling it. If you can find a menu tree for your handset you might be able to find the relevant option.

This is because of the obvious dangers with pointing magnifying optics at the sun. Along with the repeated warnings from others (always good to point out) make sure you keep your guidescope covered too. A length of empty pipe laid parallel to your scope's axis is all you need for good alignment of the sun when using a solar filter. You move the scope until the pipe makes a small ring shadow on the ground (indicating the sun can be seen clear through it). There are other alignment options too, the scope tube alone making a minimal shadow is enough for some.

Good polar alignment is still needed for sun alignment and tracking to be effective too.

Thanks. I'll have a look for it buried somewhere in the menus.

[Blue-Echo (Nick)]

Originally Posted by mikeyjames

Hi Nick,
I got it from

http://www.skywatcher.com/download/software/

I think it was only recently released.

Thanks Mick. That would explain it then. I'll give it a go.

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by Malcolm

mikeyjames: Once you have completed the location, date and time, then Y or N to daylight saving, you are faced with 1-Y or 2-N to align, select Y and then using the scroll through buttons choose daytime align, the handset will then search for objects. Sun or the Moon if it is up. I did a daytime align on the Moon this morning. A number 14 welders glass taped over the finder can assist with locating the Sun. Also check the shadow on the ground, the smallest shadow cast will put you close to the Sun.
A white light offset solar filter can be made using Baader Solar Film, find on eBay, and use sturdy cardboard to make the filter housing. I used mdf. The offset hole is placed in-between the spiders that hold the secondary mirror. Larger than this is not required. Clear Skies! :-)

Hi Malcolm
I checked again today and the option just isn't there. Also, Skywatcher support emailed me today with the exact advice you gave me. I also followed Sil's advice and went through every menu item and nothing.

I've emailed Skywatcher support again telling them the option is missing so I'll see what they have to say.

Cheers
Mick

[Malcolm]

That is really odd. The SkyWatcher site lists the daytime option as a new addition to its latest firmware, and if you have that, it should be there under the alignment menu. When you first turn on the handset, the v number is displayed. Check your v number.

Another option you could try, would be to align the scope at night, using your normal method, then cover and leave the scope aligned overnight with the power on, the next day, look at 7, (Planets) and select Sun. That could work.
It seems to me that if the menu option cannot be found, the version is not correct, or the update flash has not worked. I have a v3 handset by the way, however afaik the functions are the same, a friend in my small group has an NEQ6 Pro with a v4 handset and I have used his handset to show him the PAE function and it appears to be identical.

See if you can find one star alignment. The software write up on the SkyWatcher site says it's available and I just powered up my handset and it's not there. Although I'm sure I've seen it once before.

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by Malcolm

That is really odd. The SkyWatcher site lists the daytime option as a new addition to its latest firmware, and if you have that, it should be there under the alignment menu. When you first turn on the handset, the v number is displayed. Check your v number.

Another option you could try, would be to align the scope at night, using your normal method, then cover and leave the scope aligned overnight with the power on, the next day, look at 7, (Planets) and select Sun. That could work.
It seems to me that if the menu option cannot be found, the version is not correct, or the update flash has not worked. I have a v3 handset by the way, however afaik the functions are the same, a friend in my small group has an NEQ6 Pro with a v4 handset and I have used his handset to show him the PAE function and it appears to be identical.

See if you can find one star alignment. The software write up on the SkyWatcher site says it's available and I just powered up my handset and it's not there. Although I'm sure I've seen it once before.

Hi Malcolm,
Yes, it's a strange one.

When I turn the system, I see “version 04.38.09”. I press enter and get the warning about pointing the telescope at the sun. I then fill in coordinates, time zone, elevation, date, time, and then daylight saving status. I then press 1 to “begin alignment”. My options in the scroll list are:

1-star align
2-star align
3-star align
Cone error
NP error

There is no option to do daytime alignment.

There are definite changes since the earlier firmware as I can now choose the sun as a target under 'solar system' menu, just can't get it at the alignment menu.

I am really new and was hoping to use the daytime alignment to set up just before the sun goes down. I am still learning the sky and hoped this would help a bit.

I am setting up to the best of my ability using a compass to point the mount south and a digital level to point to the celestial pole. Then my biggest issue with aligning at night is how there are many more stars in the field of view once you look through the scope. I use star map to try and find my alignment target, I think I have it, I then try to zero in on it and find many more stars visible surrounding the chosen star that could also be the target - I hope than made sense On that note, I wonder why they don't add things like Venus as an alignment target?

I am also getting used to how the EQ mount moves with the arrow keys and with things being back to front in the field of view. Last night Venus was easily the brightest thing in the western sky but it took me a good 30 minutes to get the scope pointed at it. From there Saturn took another few minutes. I suppose it's 49 years of learning about what up, down, left, and right mean, and now throwing that out the window.

I can't even try polar alignment from my home as the southern view is blocked to about 45 degrees, northern to about 25 degrees, but not too bad for west and east.

Cheers
Mick

[JoelyE95 (Joel)]

This is probably going to be useful to you. I have an AZ-EQ6 and the "Daytime Align" function is only available in AZ Mode, not EQ Mode. When using this as an alignment option, I managed to get about 90 minutes of tracking before needing to re-center (With an ED80T and 12mm Ortho EP)

Joel

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by JoelyE95

This is probably going to be useful to you. I have an AZ-EQ6 and the "Daytime Align" function is only available in AZ Mode, not EQ Mode. When using this as an alignment option, I managed to get about 90 minutes of tracking before needing to re-center (With an ED80T and 12mm Ortho EP)

Joel

Hi Joel,
So the plot thickens. Maybe it's only available for AZ capable mounts. This seems like a strange decision to me but I don't know enough to make that judgement I suppose.

Is there a good reason why you would only enable this function on AZ mode and not EQ mode?

Thanks
Mick

[Malcolm]

That is an interesting fact, I have an alt-az dobsonian. I would ask about that by email if you can.
If you do a three star alignment and choose the south-western zone, you should get Venus, then alignment on another two stars, maybe that will help with your alignment. Usually the handset will choose the brightest objects, and I think there is a filter menu item that you can use, possibly by magnitude.

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by Malcolm

That is an interesting fact, I have an alt-az dobsonian. I would ask about that by email if you can.
If you do a three star alignment and choose the south-western zone, you should get Venus, then alignment on another two stars, maybe that will help with your alignment. Usually the handset will choose the brightest objects, and I think there is a filter menu item that you can use, possibly by magnitude.

I'm waiting for Skywatcher to get back to me. They were pretty quick to get back initially when telling me it should work (i.e., it's my problem for not knowing how to use it). Since replied with the fact it doesn't work, silence for three days.

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Hi all,
Skywatcher have gotten back to me and are adamant it should work on the NEQ6. They are talking about replacing my hand controller. Yet an internet search finds that I'm not the only NEQ6 owner where it doesn't work, with many claiming it only works on the AZ-EQ6, and then only in AZ mode.

They asked me to re-flash the firmware of the hand controller and the motor controller on the mount - this made no difference.

I'll update the thread when I hear more news.

Cheers
Mick

[wardlaw@freenet]

Originally Posted by mikeyjames

Hi Malcolm
I checked again today and the option just isn't there. Also, Skywatcher support emailed me today with the exact advice you gave me. I also followed Sil's advice and went through every menu item and nothing.

I've emailed Skywatcher support again telling them the option is missing so I'll see what they have to say.

Cheers
Mick

Just to confirm, have updated my V3 handset to 3.38.09 today for my EQ3 and daylight align is not available.

Ian