ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
Waning Gibbous 92.2%
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21-09-2020, 09:10 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NEWCASTLE NSW Australia
Posts: 33,160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB
I bet a few have gone subscription since you've bought them houghy, better check.
Wouldn't want them gouging your cc.
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Thanks RB, just don't start with the glasshouse, I could kick my toa, sorry your TOA doorstop
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21-09-2020, 09:13 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NEWCASTLE NSW Australia
Posts: 33,160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisM
Heck, the grease will be putrefied and petrified in most of the stuff he bought before he uses them...
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It's an experiment, but I get they need to make a living however when you purchase something outright only to have it change and become very much expensive
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21-09-2020, 09:14 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 25,788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisM
Heck, the grease will be putrefied and petrified in most of the stuff he bought before he uses them...
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Houghy’s right, I shouldn’t throw stones
Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ughy
Thanks RB, just don't start with the glasshouse, I could kick my toa, sorry your TOA doorstop
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Sorry David
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22-09-2020, 07:20 AM
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Novichok test rabbit
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in the cosmos...
Posts: 10,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ughy
Thanks RB, just don't start with the glasshouse, I could kick my toa, sorry your TOA doorstop
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Not to mention his website...
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22-09-2020, 07:35 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Launceston Tasmania
Posts: 9,019
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My sentiments are the same.
I'm happy to pay once only for software, even for upgrades if necessary. but subscription models are shoot your self in the foot stuff.
I've seen the same sort of marketing applied to phone systems, the result is reduced market share, in our case we sell systems with the lowest cost of ownership, one of the manufacturers are trying to gouge 50% of the initial purchase cost as a 3 yearly "Software Support" contract, no payment, no access to even bug fixes. Needles to say sales from that manufacturer are dead in the water.
I have a paid for copy of SGP like h0ughy but haven't fired a shot in anger with it.
I suspect that at some stage in the not too distant future Windows OS will also become a subscription model, time then to defect to Linux.
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22-09-2020, 07:43 AM
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Gravity does not Suck
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tabulam
Posts: 16,931
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I bet it makes a big difference to the value of the business.
How much is a business worth that needs sales compared to one that has a known income before they start the next sales year.
Alex
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22-09-2020, 12:05 PM
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Unregistered User
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave
I bet it makes a big difference to the value of the business.
Alex
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It will make a difference to the value of the business, one way or the other. For some companies the subscription model may be an easy way to make more money, however, it can backfire. SGP will be losing lots of current and future customers. Only time will tell if this move paid off.
Also keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the non-subscription version of SGP (that you can keep "forever") is not going to stop working in a few years (as it still needs a licensing server). There are lots of precedents of this happening.
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22-09-2020, 01:05 PM
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Really just a beginner
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,033
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Didn't SGP go through a period of "no updates" a couple of years ago?
Unfortunately, Windows updates seem to create havoc with our software that talks to lots of devices - we need active developers to deal with those issues. It's not unreasonable for the developer to be paid for their ongoing efforts.
I've had a play with NINA - very good open source option. You have the option to contribute to the developer if you feel inclined.
DT
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22-09-2020, 02:11 PM
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My God it's full of stars
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,257
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Yes disappointing news.
I got a free copy of SGP with my new QSI camera, but I only recently installed it - having finally decided to move to PC for capture as mac options are so limited.
(I have Ekos working with focussing, guiding & capturing, but not plate solving).
Disappointing to learn that I now have to pay for something that was a gift...
Voyager is suddenly looking more attractive
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22-09-2020, 03:26 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Darwin
Posts: 737
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I have been using SGPro for a few years and found it ... adequate... but worth what I paid for it. True automation? Not entirely, I found I had to be close by just in case, autofocusing can go awry and ruin a session. I won’t be subscribing. The mosaic planner is not entirely accurate.
This year I started with Voyager and whilst it is a subscription I found it , so far , value for money. True automation, you can walk away, or go to bed 😎
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22-09-2020, 04:16 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlazg
I have been using SGPro for a few years and found it ... adequate... but worth what I paid for it. True automation? Not entirely, I found I had to be close by just in case, autofocusing can go awry and ruin a session. I won’t be subscribing. The mosaic planner is not entirely accurate.
This year I started with Voyager and whilst it is a subscription I found it , so far , value for money. True automation, you can walk away, or go to bed 😎
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I had a look at Voyager but the GUI doesn't seem very user friendly. Automation is good but that element of interraction is still very appealing to me. I don't see the point in pressing a button then coming back 8 hours later that everything is all complete.
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22-09-2020, 05:36 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Darwin
Posts: 737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn488
I had a look at Voyager but the GUI doesn't seem very user friendly. Automation is good but that element of interraction is still very appealing to me. I don't see the point in pressing a button then coming back 8 hours later that everything is all complete.
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Using the Dashboard makes it simple to set up what you want to image, including mosaics. Autofocus and guiding using Robo I find more accurate and stable.
Sitting outside looking at a computer screen checking whether your 20 min exposures are ok for hours on end does not appeal to me. If I had company, that’s different but does not occur very often. I don’t have an observatory and travel 90 k to a dark site, if you want to image over a few nights it becomes a bit tedious.
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22-09-2020, 07:19 PM
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Big Scopes are Cool
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SE Tasmania
Posts: 4,532
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Been checking out N.I.N.A. this evening...It seems quite comprehensive so I might give it a try.
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22-09-2020, 07:46 PM
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ze frogginator
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_4059
Been checking out N.I.N.A. this evening...It seems quite comprehensive so I might give it a try.
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Automated meridian flip. End of an era.
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22-09-2020, 07:51 PM
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Big Scopes are Cool
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SE Tasmania
Posts: 4,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb
Automated meridian flip. End of an era.
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Have you tried it? You might have to let go of PHD V0 though!
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22-09-2020, 07:55 PM
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ze frogginator
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_4059
Have you tried it? You might have to let go of PHD V0 though!
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The only flips I do are burgers.
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22-09-2020, 08:23 PM
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Big Scopes are Cool
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SE Tasmania
Posts: 4,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb
The only flips I do are burgers.
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Sensai Grenouille might perfect the back flip?
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22-09-2020, 09:38 PM
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Bright the hawk's flight
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mt Duneed Vic
Posts: 3,978
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I have just sent them an email expressing my unhappiness over this. Over the years I have assisted a number of people at SV camps with setting up and using SGP as I felt it had a lot of value. When I first started out I tried a number of capture programs and settled on SGP as I found the interface easy to understand and it had all the features I was looking for, although it had a couple of quirks, overall it was a time saver.
My main beef with this decision is that I understood that the license I paid for at the start was inclusive of future upgrades. I have no issue per se with subsriptions (I use them for some other software), just would prefer that original deal was honoured. So guess I will have to start the search for an alternative!!
Malcolm
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23-09-2020, 08:22 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kilmore, Australia
Posts: 3,342
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Having finally got the email myself, I am even less impressed. The subscription is required to gain access to any further updates (And previous updates have been seldom enough and minor enough not to justify the ongoing cost IMO) I am not that keen to pay extra for continued bug fixes if V3.2 which I am "entitled" to is full of new bugs, and support wise, I don't much fancy paying to get access to a priority forum section unless they prove more open to feature requests that they didn't think of first. They could work on their wording too, "While you have been granted an (expired) subscription". How magnanimous of them.
The only reason I an going to re-activate mine at all is because of I have been helping out in getting someone set up via zoom sessions and it is a lot easier to do when you have the interface in front of you to help remember where everything is. Although he will have just gotten the email too. Having just paid for SGP under the lifetime model, I don't know what his reaction is yet to the news of how short his life was. I might be helping him transition to Voyager yet.
I am glad there is not much by way of personal information tied to the accounts given they have just bulk emailed clear text user names and passwords for the new site.
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23-09-2020, 08:28 AM
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ze frogginator
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barx1963
My main beef with this decision is that I understood that the license I paid for at the start was inclusive of future upgrades. I have no issue per se with subsriptions (I use them for some other software), just would prefer that original deal was honoured.
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That's about the only positive thing that comes with age. You end up realising that all this lifetime support waffle is total BS. Nothing's honoured. They're just words. Nowadays if someone comes to me selling anything and mentions the words "unlimited" or "lifetime" I send them straight on their merry way.
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