yet another example of Australian's getting ripped off

[kittenshark (Cheryl-Ann Tan)]

It really depends--many businesses are not inclined to make their business practices known, and unless you have access to their figures, you never really know what the reasons behind their pricing are.

Sometimes manufacturers force retailers to get their goods from local resellers/wholesalers, the 'authorised dealers'. They will almost always be more expensive. The single book you found might have not have come from the same source as Amazon at all. This is where some retailers resort to 'grey imports', which is perfectly legal, but sometimes not the ideal arrangement for both the retailer and the customer.

Amazon is pretty much a posh version of ebay these days. It's become more and more of a selling platform as much as it is its own warehouse/online retailer. Not all things sold there are held in the Amazon warehouse or are even genuine, like those fake eclipse glasses that flooded the states in August.

It would be interesting to see what happens in Amazon Australia, and even as a retailer, I'm quite excited at the opportunities it presents because it's a powerful marketing channel.

Of course, a lot of us just like to see and touch the products in a nice shop front and talk to a human. For some people, it is part of their social outlet, hanging out at their local store or shopping mall. So that's likely to be sticking around for a long time, even if it plays a different role in retail.

[Shano592 (Shane)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

It depends on your point of view.

It very much does depend on your POV.

When Amazon makes it's mark here, we intend to be inside that bubble. Our new website provider is currently sandboxing their Amazon feed-in tech. So, once we are up and running, and Amazon joins us here, then we can send our goods to Amazon and take advantage of their platform, the same way we do with eBay.

You can either fall into the current and get carried along with it, or fight against it and go under. Amazon is a biiiig river!

[OICURMT]

My comments in RED

Originally Posted by kittenshark

Every time you put a product into an Australian warehouse or retail front, expect it to cost at least 30-50% more, at least, mostly due to labour costs and rent. Most decent retailers base their prices on their supply price. If the supplier increases their cost, many are reluctant to raise the prices and absorb the cost where they can, until they go out of business, or bear the brunt of angry customers.

These assumptions have proven to be false in the modern economies. The Amazon model is to 1) purchase or lease the warehouse depending on metrics; 2) have little to no human intervention. (Google for "Amazon warehouse automation video")

You could walk into a Dymocks retail front and get a book straight away, but not with the Amazon warehouse. You pay for that service. But with Amazon coming to Australia, it's likely they'll bring the Prime service with free 2 day shipping etc. Smaller retailers can't even compete with shipping rates--it's insane that it's cheaper to ship something from China than to ship something locally.

See my note on one-hour delivery below... why waste the time looking in Dymocks when you can get it delivered directly? You can even borrow the digital version of the book (the ENTIRE book) before you buy, or retern it after you've read it. (See link re: Amazon Prime)

I see more and more retail being done out of a warehouse either locally or overseas as a response to Amazon to compete with price.

Borders closing down is a sure sign of the bookstores not being able to change with the market.

Cheap prices are not always a good thing--if one big retailer comes into any industry and slashes prices, it is predatory pricing and its sole purpose is to drive smaller guys out of the market, so that they become a monopoly, and where companies become big and faceless, the less personal customer service you get.

Amazon's model is customer service, which results in loyalty, which results in revenue, which results in profits. Their return policy is second to none. Until you've experienced it, you don't know what you are missing.

I don't understand why Australians have such a hangup on "big" companies... companies are populated by HUMANS (ok, and robots now )... It's not about driving smaller guys out of business, it's about getting more value for your dollar and if other can't compete, then "c'est la vie". Amazon make a huge profit, while keeping everything you purchase cheaper than you can get in a store. The warehouse model works. Those who can't recognize it are doomed.

My son was going to open a Vegan online store based out of Sydney, but once he did the competitive analysis, he dropped the idea. Why? He can't afford to compete with Amazon (> 130k items for Vegans), but thought he could against Coles (their business model doesn't cater for Vegans).

If you consider that Amazon have 94 warehouses to support 323million people (3.44million per warehouse) AND offer one-hour delivery to saturated areas (NYC, Miami, Baltimore), then I expect that Amazon will start out the same as when they started in the US (you need to pay postage, delivery within a week, limited benefits).

Once it builds the necessary good-will and loyalty (which turns into revenue), it'll evolve into it's current form (Amazon Prime - Two-day free delivery, online content such as movies, TV shows, 24/7 free streaming music, groceries (yes, food delivery), etc...) and *yes*, they collect taxes, so the GST will apply.

Based on the current demographics, I'd expect one big warehouse at Sydney (5million) and one at Melbourne (4.8million). The other Capital cities can't compete, so delivery will be a week, but the other benefits (online) would be the same.

What I'm curious about is... the USPS has been transformed because of online shopping, is AusPost up to the challenge?


OIC!

[Visionary (David)]

Aust Post entered a business venture with Star Track, or maybe it was a buyout, I can't remember. Star Track described a brilliant upward growth curve as it was the first with an automated freight centers, the first with online tracking, at the same time it's then competitors were using manual con-notes!
It is quite possible that via the sheer economic power of Amazon and the cultural experience of Star Track Aust Post may well transform itself into a business that can thrive in this new era of mass distribution.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by dpastern

As the subject title says. We get ripped off here. A LOT. For far too long distributors and retailers have been allowed to price rape Australians.

Example:

Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas: Field edition.

Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/interstellaru...tellarum+field

USD $164.16 (around $200 AUD).

Dymocks Australia:

https://www.dymocks.com.au/book/inte.../#.WdDIQ9Og-Rs

they want a very greedy AUD $420.00. WTF? Like seriously?

note: Amazon price is the retail price, the wholesale price will be a lot lower than this, which makes the Dymocks markup even more ridiculous. And, this is not the first time I've see Dymocks do this, and when you query prices with them, they don't even give you the courtesy of a reply. Talk about treating customers with contempt!

Now, if your'e going to tell me that it costs $220 to ship the book to Australia, or store it in a warehouse, I'm gonna suggest that you put the ice crack pipe down.

This is why Australians are buying direct from overseas in DROVES. Local business complains, and our incompetent politicians do nothing but protect businesses, rather than their constituents who legally voted them into power. Has to make you wonder...

if local business wants to compete, then they need to actually compete, not compel the Australian government to bully Australians into not buying from competitive overseas vendors.

This just really ires me badly.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Interstel...UAAOSw-EBZrCVN

or if you want to pay more, and slow shipping:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-inter...wAAOSwcj5ZQyVA

[doppler (Rick)]

Originally Posted by OICURMT

What I'm curious about is... the USPS has been transformed because of online shopping, is AusPost up to the challenge?


OIC!

Lots of AU based ebay traders offering free post now. I have heard that Aust post offers cheap postage to them if they have an account. The rest of us probably pay more to make up for the shortfall.
I recently received a pair of CV joints from Sydney 950mm long and weighing 18 kgs with free postage (and at half the price of locally sourced). I asked the Post office how much for me to send them back, she said heaps about $75.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

Make up a sticker with the American price on it and pay in US dollars

[Sconesbie (Scott)]

Depending on the company, who owns it and how it's run would determine their pricing.

I'll try and explain what I mean.

National company: Last years figures $xxxx. Need increase in turnover or profit to make the books look good for any potential buyer or to satisfy shareholders. The only way to do this is increase pricing or reduce over heads. Said company also has the cost increase on items it has to buy at a wholesale price as that company also wants an increase in revenue. It's a vicious circle. Big companies don't really care about retaining customers too much as they believe that there is another one to replace the one they've just lost.

Small business: Most likely to try and keep pricing low to keep existing customers and attract new ones. Can't necessarily absorb any pricing increases at a wholesale level and are still entitled to make a profit and look after their family. It's a knife edge situation. Increase prices or margins (same thing) and make some more money, or absorb costs or lose customers and revenue.

An example is I used to work for a national TV network affiliate in a sales role. Last year my figures were $900,000 in advertising revenue (make believe but close to it). This year my target is $1,200,000. The only way to get this is to sell to new clients (who are few and far between) or ask for an increase in spend for my existing clients. This was also on top of an advertising spot rate increase. So not only did I have to sell more $$ (which is hard enough in a tough market), my advertising rates were higher which has a double impact. The business I sold to then has to sell more of their product to pay for their advertising. Again, do they increase their rates or charge more?

So I guess what I am trying to say is that yes we always want the best price on our products. I certainly will buy local if I can get it at the price I am willing to pay or what is reasonable. I will buy online if I can't. Sometimes if I want or need it now, I will buy at a higher price than what I can get online but that's going to happen.

I don't buy overseas as I simply don't have trust. I am sure there are many reputable dealers overseas. It's just something I haven't got to believe in yet.


Regards
Scott

[Boozlefoot]

If a local retailer is within a reasonable range of the overseas market, I'll buy locally. I prefer to buy locally and support local Australian business.[/QUOTE]

Being in a somewhat disadvantaged retail area, i use online purchasing regularly, but always check if item is available from Aus at a reasonable price. If it costs a little more I am glad to buy Aus seller products, but occasionally the $ demands OS trading, and this is frequently also influenced by high freight costs within Australia, by post or by carrier.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Camelopardalis

Amazon is an interesting case. If you look at the US and UK markets, traditional retailers have learned to co-exist with online presences of their own, or go the way of the do-do as market forces dictate. You don't find shopping streets/malls with half of the stores empty. Granted, in some locations you might, but that's more a factor of local socioeconomic problems/policy.

In Australia...I have to wonder if Amazon might have a challenge on their hands. The Great Postal Vortex of Australia is a law to itself. Even courier companies can be somewhat unpredictable. And then you have the highest labour cost of anywhere in the world. Factor in the unique Australian geographic challenge, and a significantly smaller population compared to other markets they operate in and you'll see why it might be "interesting".

There's going to be a gotcha somewhere...like, maybe the product selection they will carry will be somewhat limited? Regardless, local businesses will either cease or shape up.

Don't in any way interpret my ramblings as being for/against what will come next. Since living in Australia I've happily weened of the Amazon addiction

yeah, Aussie post is well...crap. Probably one of the worst postal systems in the world. Even the Russian postal system is better imho!

Will Amazon do any good in Australia...I suspect that they'll open up their own distribution carrier - Australia Post is simply too unreliable.

I've been waiting for an item (and an expensive one at that) ordered off a US ebayer...been showing as scanned @ Granville (Sydney) 4.44am Thursday with no further updates. Of course, it came from overseas, went through customs at Sydney airport (as expected), WTF did it go to Granville? There's no distribution centre there, only a LPO. I've gonna give Australia Post till Tuesday arvo and if no further updates, I'll have a go at the buggers. Incompetent with a big I!!!! Don't even get me started on Australia Post, hate the *******s with a passion. Another fine example of a government service being privatised and going downhill fast...more $$$ for less service and quality. But, I'll digress, our invertebrate pollies are as useless as mammary glands on a bull.

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

I always try the Book Depositry.

https://www.bookdepository.com/searc...arch=Find+book

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Shano592

It very much does depend on your POV.

When Amazon makes it's mark here, we intend to be inside that bubble. Our new website provider is currently sandboxing their Amazon feed-in tech. So, once we are up and running, and Amazon joins us here, then we can send our goods to Amazon and take advantage of their platform, the same way we do with eBay.

You can either fall into the current and get carried along with it, or fight against it and go under. Amazon is a biiiig river!

Agreed. Hopefully local business survives, and more importantly, competes.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by kittenshark

Sometimes manufacturers force retailers to get their goods from local resellers/wholesalers, the 'authorised dealers'. They will almost always be more expensive. The single book you found might have not have come from the same source as Amazon at all. This is where some retailers resort to 'grey imports', which is perfectly legal, but sometimes not the ideal arrangement for both the retailer and the customer.

yes, I understand this. It's an old outdated Dinosaur approach to product distribution though. And the sooner it becomes extinct, the better. When local retailers are paying high prices, cos distributors are unreasonably jacking prices up, I feel sorry for them.

I see this crap happening in both astro gear and audio gear, although audio gear is a LOT worse imho. Most telescope shops in Australia are pretty reasonable priced when compared to overseas markets imho.

I'll support local Australian business wherever possible.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by OICURMT

My comments in RED



If you consider that Amazon have 94 warehouses to support 323million people (3.44million per warehouse) AND offer one-hour delivery to saturated areas (NYC, Miami, Baltimore), then I expect that Amazon will start out the same as when they started in the US (you need to pay postage, delivery within a week, limited benefits).

Once it builds the necessary good-will and loyalty (which turns into revenue), it'll evolve into it's current form (Amazon Prime - Two-day free delivery, online content such as movies, TV shows, 24/7 free streaming music, groceries (yes, food delivery), etc...) and *yes*, they collect taxes, so the GST will apply.

Based on the current demographics, I'd expect one big warehouse at Sydney (5million) and one at Melbourne (4.8million). The other Capital cities can't compete, so delivery will be a week, but the other benefits (online) would be the same.

What I'm curious about is... the USPS has been transformed because of online shopping, is AusPost up to the challenge?


OIC!

it's hard to say how Amazon will cope with the local Australian market. But - it is a welcome thing imho. Will the Australian government hamper Amazon though (I suspect it will, in order to protect local Australian owned businesses and owners). If it does that, I'll be very angry. I'm already disgusted enough with this retarded Liberal government's BS. And sadly, too many Australians were stupid enough to vote the *******s in!

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Interstel...UAAOSw-EBZrCVN

or if you want to pay more, and slow shipping:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-inter...wAAOSwcj5ZQyVA

lol, cheaper than Dymocks granted, but still OTT pricing. I just paid AUD $190 for my copy. Sent it to my US proxy postal address. it's still to arrive at my US address, but since I have a bunch of other stuff still to come, I'll bundle them all up together into a combined package.

Items that have already arrived will be shipped out on Monday US time, via DHL, 4 working days to get here. Along with the following:

explore scientific 82° 30mm eyepiece
Thierry legault's Astrophotography
The Deep-sky Imaging Primer
an Orion 2" skyglow filter
2nd hand TMB planetary 8mm eyepiece
annals of the deep sky volumes 3 and 4

All for AUD $90 shipping combined!

I saved $38 apiece on the annals alone - that's $76 right there.

I saved $59 on the es 82 30mm - savings up to $135 already. $45 in the "profit".

I saved $39 on Thierry legault's book (Dymocks wants $78, I paid $39). Brings the savings up to $79.

I saved money on the The Deep-sky Imaging Primer book, can't tell how much, since Dymocks, QBD and Bintel do not stock it...but given Bintel's mark up on the annals ($70 vs $32), if I factor in similar levels of mark up for the dee-sky imaging primer book, based on its US converted price to AUD ($42), it'd be around $92...a saving of $50...grand total of savings already up to $129.

The TMB planetary is 2nd hand, and you can't really get it in Australia, so had to source it form overseas anyway.

Orion 2" skyglow filter - AUD $103, locally $179...a savings of AUD $76...a nice total of $205 saved.

But a savings of $205 is rather nice I think. And some of the stuff would have cost me shipping too if sourced from Australia...

So, TLDR - I paid for my shipping from the US to Australia, and saved just over $200...

I still have the ES 11 and 18 mm 82 degree eyepieces sitting @ my US address, and a few more books to arrive too. And a few more eyepieces.

Now, if any snobs on here with too much money, arguing that $200 isn't a lot of money wanna donate $200 to me... I'm all ears (just call me Bugs Bunny)!!!

And, lastly, let's recount that those are RETAIL US prices. I guarantee you that local distributors are getting a better deal on said products than I am as a retail consumer buying from the US...

That $200 odd savings means I can get another eyepiece, or another bit of kit.

And yes, I did support local too, having bought a few Fujiyama orthos from Claude @ AEC, and a qhy polemaster from Theo @ Gamma. Both have superb customer service and prices matching overseas retailers.

Our government would rather protect distributors and businesses with price gauging tactics and strip me of $200...how is that serving the people *wink wink*. answer: it isn't.

quod erat demonstrandum

Dave

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Just another example...

https://www.createspace.com/5784103

QBD and dymocks don't even stock it or list it....

book depository doesn't stock or list it either.

An Australian ebay shop has it, but they want $64 AUD + AUD $8 shipping for it...for a grand total of AUD $72...

just ordered it off Amazon - < AUD $54 including shipping...

Now some of you might say that it's only saving $18 and that that isn't a lot of money...I digress. If $18 isn't a lot of money, would you kindly please consider donating it ($18) to me via paypal please. I thought not.

Our government lets Australians get ripped off under the guise of "free market". And the sad thing is, most Australians are too stupid, and too lazy and allow it to happen, instead of demanding that our government enforce reasonable price parity from Australian distributors and retailers. Instead, our government goes in the opposite direction and intends to force Australian consumers to get ripped off by local distributors and retailers. Go figure. So much for serving their legal constituents (might I remind you that businesses are not legally viewed as constituents). One has to question why our government(s) listen to businesses, and not their legal constituents, but I digress.

[kittenshark (Cheryl-Ann Tan)]

Call my assumption about warehousing/retail front costs false, but I base it off my personal experience running a warehouse and retail shopfront. But hey, thanks for mansplaining it to a business owner.

There ARE people in some industries who have built their entire business around sucking every brand up or specifically pissing off someone they don't like.

Like I said, not *always* a bad thing, but bad things can happen. See what happens to small towns in the US where a Walmart closes down--leaves a huge hole in the local economy and people are out of jobs and out of business, and often doesn't recover for a long time.

Also, I suspect the Star Atlas was purchased retail price and resold. You really only can match RRP if you bought it whole sale in bulk. If it's not a popular book, it's probably not worth stocking it, and Dymocks not even interested in selling it, thus the price.

Occasionally you do get the odd customer who does that and asks you to order things on Amazon, and will only pay by cheque or cash in store because they hate the interwebs or something. (True story.)

[Boozlefoot]

Still thinking everybody has to consider their purchases individually. I tried this week to "buy local" in town 43 km away some trailer hubs for a fork mount, their "very best price" was $69.00 each. Bought them online from interstate, exact same items, post included to my door, $78.00 pair ($39.00 each)

So I'm saving $60.00 by not going to town, and Auspost had them to me in 2 days from interstate. I have a very good run with Aust. Post, though I'm sure it varies dependent on area distribution centres.

[OICURMT]

Originally Posted by kittenshark

But hey, thanks for mansplaining it to a business owner.

1) I read the content, not the authour... consequently,
2) I didn't even realize who posted it... consequently,
3) G.O.D. would have received the *exact* same response...


OIC!

[Rob P]

I've used Booktopia a few times. You may have to wait for a while for some of the less popular titles (e.g. most Astronomy publications!) but, generally, the prices are reasonable and often discounted.

https://www.booktopia.com.au/search....uctType=917504

Cost quoted is $270 + pp

Not quite the US$164 but a lot better than $420