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Old 01-07-2010, 08:16 PM
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dugnsuz (Doug)
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Can mono CCD imaging with 2" nosepiece filters be done?

And LRGB for that matter!!

Hello all
A few questions have I...

I'm considering moving on/up to a short FL refractor/CCD camera rig.
Looking at ED80/Moonlite focuser scope + 8300 sensor based camera.

1. Is a flattener needed when using a CCD sensor size smaller than a DSLR?
Or, is the coma inherent in the imaging train and thus needed for any camera system?

2. Can 2" filters be screwed into any CCD camera nosepiece? (ie LRGB and NB filter imaging done without a FW)

3. How does one attach a flattener to a CCD camera - WO PFlat 2 for example?

4. How easy it is to attach a Canon EF lens to a CCD camera - is it worth it in terms of resolution?

5. Can a filter wheel be introduced between Canon EF lens and CCD?

Hope you lot can help
Cheers
Doug
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:40 AM
gbeal
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Doug,
yes to all, just try it.
I would think you will still need the flattener, but one frame will tell you. Or take a guess at one from the DSLR at the moment, guessing were the sensor edges will be with the 8300 or smaller chip.
Yes indeed, filters can be screwed on, and the only real downside is that to change them you need to remove the camera and this will introduce a possibility of rotation, or misalignment of the camera when you return it. Not a biggie, but............
In my case with an SX camera I have a set of extension tubes the right length to make the distance chip to MPCC, simple enough. Adding to this is in my case a Baader quick change fitting (to allow rotating the camera), and a filter drawer, to reduce the need for the CFW and eliminate the aforementioned rotation.
EF lens to CCD? Easy. Write to Peter Tan, he makes adaptors, metal ones, excellent, and the later ones have had filter threads within. Yes indeed, very much worth using a camera lens, more so with the 8300 chips as the pixels are smaller. I regularly use a Pentax 200mm.
Gary
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:47 AM
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[1ponders] (Paul)
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I'm looking at attaching both a PII and an PIII flat to my SXVF-H9 Doug. All you need are the correct length extension tubes. Eg from chip to thread in the SX is 17mm i believe to to attach the PII or III I need an extension tube about 35- 40 mm long.

Yes you can install a filter wheel between the camera and the lens. Whether or not you will get focus though is another story.
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:06 AM
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Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [1ponders] View Post
Yes you can install a filter wheel between the camera and the lens. Whether or not you will get focus though is another story.
When I put the QHY filter wheel in between my 40D and Nikkor 105mm f/2.5, "infinity" ended up being somewhere near the middle of the lens total rotation path. There's lots of latitude.
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugnsuz View Post
1. Is a flattener needed when using a CCD sensor size smaller than a DSLR?
Or, is the coma inherent in the imaging train and thus needed for any camera system?
It depends on the chip size - all refractors will have some coma so the bigger the chip the more likely it is you will hit this problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugnsuz View Post
2. Can 2" filters be screwed into any CCD camera nosepiece? (ie LRGB and NB filter imaging done without a FW)
Yes - but you are never going do this - it will be too painful - repeatedly removing and repacing the camera to change filters will mean pulling all- nighters and at each change you will have to re-frame, re-focus etc. The only way this makes sense is to do it at the meridian flip - possibly use Ha and Oiii only - this will be okish and gets you started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugnsuz View Post
3. How does one attach a flattener to a CCD camera - WO PFlat 2 for example?
I have the Flat2 - it is designed for DSLRs and fits inot a T-ring thus you need T thread on your camera (or an adapter) and you may need a spacer to keep the FR/CCD distance correct (55mm in this case)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugnsuz View Post
4. How easy it is to attach a Canon EF lens to a CCD camera - is it worth it in terms of resolution?
Not sure - I use older (but good quality) M42 (T thread) lenses that can be picked up quite cheaply from ebay for this kind of project. The only thing to watch out for is that you can manually set appature (you will want to stop down) and reach infinity focus - not all lenses let you do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugnsuz View Post
5. Can a filter wheel be introduced between Canon EF lens and CCD?
Almost certainly not - you will probably not be able to focus to infinity.
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Old 02-07-2010, 09:52 AM
rally
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The success of adding a camera lens to a CCD camera is at least partially dependent on the metal back distance of the lens to the CCD image plane.

Here is a copy of an older list I found sorted from shortest to longest.

27.8 mm Leica (M bayonet)
28.8 mm Leica (screw)
28.8 mm Canon (screw)
31.5 mm Miranda
37.8 mm Alpa Bayonet
40.5 mm Konica Autoreflex
42.1 mm Canon (FD and earlier)
43.5 mm Minolta
44.7 mm Rollei 35
44.7 mm Voigtlander
44.7 mm Exacta
44.7 mm Ikarex BM
44.7 mm Topcon DM
45.5 mm Pentax K
45.5 mm Contax RTS
45.5 mm Petri Bayonet
45.5 mm Praktica/Pentax ###
45.5 mm Rico Bayonet
45.5 mm Yashika FR, FX
46.0 mm Olympus OM
46.0 mm Contarex
46.5 mm Nikon

### also includes Alpa 2000 Si, Argus, Chinon, Contax D and S, Cosina, Edixa, Fujica, GAF, Ikarex TM, Mamiya/sekor, Petri, Pentacon, Ricoh, Spiraflex, Vivitar, and Yashica SLRs with M42 Universal mount.

The list is not up to date because it doesnt include Olympus DSLRs (which btw are very short) and others,
So it would pay to double check your lens first, but I reprinted it for the discussion, since I couldnt quickly find a better one !

As you can see the Canon lenses have a very short metal back to image plane distance especially compared to a Nikon.
So what can be done on one brand/type of lens may not be achievable with another - with Canon being amongst the least flexible.

So success is highly dependent on your particular camera and lens and the distance from its housing to the CCD, the adapter you want to use and anything else you may want to insert in the middle - filters, OAG's etc etc

Cheers

Last edited by rally; 02-07-2010 at 09:50 PM. Reason: remove gobbledygook and correct Oly DSLR length
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:33 AM
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dugnsuz (Doug)
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Thanks for all the very informative replies so far.
Doug
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:55 PM
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Doug do not try to image LRGB without a FW, just too painful. If you have to use a manual version but motor driven are better. FF are pretty much standard must have gear with a refractor that does not already have one built in as there will always be curvature on the edges. There are many versions out there that work well, you just have to get all the bits to make them fit, most importantly the correct length.

Mark
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