Carbon tax scrapped

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

I congratulate your good fortune, and regret that circumstances prevented me from doing similar.

But you do realise that the reason you are in credit all the time is not because solar power is an efficient form of energy? Rather it is because of middle class welfare, where the poor - who can't carry solar units from rental house to rental house - are heavily subsidising the rich who jumped in and got those great solar tariffs, which have since been heavily cut back to avoid financial ruin.
Regards,
Renato

I'd hardly call myself rich! I live on an aged pension supplemented by a very small superannuation pension.
And when I look around, I don't see too many houses owned by rich people with solar panels on the roof. The rich can afford their power bills. The suburbs with the most solar seem to be working/middle class.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

When you consider that a labrador has the same carbon footprint as a land cruiser, not replacing your pet after it passes is a sure way to improve things.
China's emissions increase by more than australias total emissions every year.
Stop buying Chinese gear and buy Aussie.
Walk or cycle if you can.
It's not hard to make a difference.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by Larryp

I'd hardly call myself rich! I live on an aged pension supplemented by a very small superannuation pension.
And when I look around, I don't see too many houses owned by rich people with solar panels on the roof. The rich can afford their power bills. The suburbs with the most solar seem to be working/middle class.

Larry, you're not being helpful now
That's why I agree with you 100%

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Renato1

But you do realise that the reason you are in credit all the time is not because solar power is an efficient form of energy? Rather it is because of middle class welfare,

Without any subsidies rooftop solar will still pay for itself in about 10 years so it is an efficient way to produce power.

While initial subsidies were too generous, government subsidies (especially in Germany) were necessary to ramp up production and bring prices down, getting the industry off the ground.

I think Alex has the right attitude - do what one can to reduce/mitigate energy consumption instead of grumbling and doing nothing.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by casstony

Without any subsidies rooftop solar will still pay for itself in about 10 years so it is an efficient way to produce power.

While initial subsidies were too generous, government subsidies (especially in Germany) were necessary to ramp up production and bring prices down, getting the industry off the ground.

I think Alex has the right attitude - do what one can to reduce/mitigate energy consumption instead of grumbling and doing nothing.

Sadly the German solar panel industry is in tatters due to cheap overseas competition, among other things. I think it was never going to produce large (or any) quantities efficiently in today's economic environment. Its job is to innovate and be rewarded for that, and that's where most effort should go. Also, Germany probably isn't the best place to generate solar power effeciently. Australia, on the other hand, could probably generate its entire power requirements from solar.

In any case, the basic approach of government help to get something started, offering a reward for doing something rather than punishing of the opposite is a good one. How it's done and what technologies it involves is another matter.

Also, I think the "doing what you can" bit can actually be a rewarding experience in itself. I find keeping personal dependencies to a minimum and doing something for the environment are often the same thing. Reduce dependence on power companies, petroleum companies, coal & gas companies, Television etc and both you and the environment will be better off.

Then, there are all the positive flow-on effects. If I don't heat my house excessively, my fridge will use a lot less power too. On a larger scale, if councils spent less energy on lighting up the airspace, amateur astronomers travel less because they can observe from home. This leads to less dust & fumes, improving transparency.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by Larryp

I'd hardly call myself rich! I live on an aged pension supplemented by a very small superannuation pension.
And when I look around, I don't see too many houses owned by rich people with solar panels on the roof. The rich can afford their power bills. The suburbs with the most solar seem to be working/middle class.

Hi Larry,
Must be different up your way.

Down here, the people I've met who tell me they haven't paid an electricity bill for years are usually upper middle class.

The fact remains, the poorer people - those who can't afford a house - would have had a devil of a time getting access to the huge solar power subsidies.
Regards,
Renato

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

Down here, the people I've met who tell me they haven't paid an electricity bill for years are usually upper middle class.

That's because of all the money they've saved on their power bills.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by casstony

Without any subsidies rooftop solar will still pay for itself in about 10 years so it is an efficient way to produce power.

While initial subsidies were too generous, government subsidies (especially in Germany) were necessary to ramp up production and bring prices down, getting the industry off the ground.

I think Alex has the right attitude - do what one can to reduce/mitigate energy consumption instead of grumbling and doing nothing.

Hi Tony,
In assessing whether rooftop solar is an efficient form of power, one has to strip off the subsidies to see what the true payback period is.

And there are still two subsides at play that I know of. One is the straight subsidy on the feed in tariff, which while they have been lowered still exist.

The other is the comparison to the price of normal electricity from coal or gas fired power power stations. And the price consumers pay has been artificially ramped up because of the effective subsidies to the renewable energy power supplies, which are at about the effective rate of the defunct carbon tax, and growing.

I remember reading before the Carbon tax was introduced, that South Koreans were then paying 66% for the price of electricity that Australians were paying. And that for the most part, their power stations were being powered by Australian black coal.

Which is why I suspect the true cost, subsidy stripped, payback period would be at the very least 50% greater than 10 years.
Regards,
Renato

[glend (Glen)]

Just be careful with that retailer buy back rate, it can change at any time (unless your one of the lucky few on the 60 cents or 20 cents regulated rates).. Energy Australia just decided to drop the buy back rate from 7.7 cents per KWHr to 5.2 cents. They sent out letters saying that this was due to the IPART report recently released which sets the recommended 'range' for buy back. The 'range' recommended was anywhere from 4.9 cents to 9.3 cents, so there was no reason for Energy Australia to change their rate, they just did it because they can improve their margins ahead of the carbon tax hand back - and blame IPART.

As a result of that I'm going off-grid, I have had enough of them buying my generated power for next to nothing and then billing the guy next door 30 cents KWHR in peak for my contribution (assuming he is their customer).

I just bought a new panel for my shed system, which is totally off grid now (1Kw of panels), with a 400 amp/hr battery storage bank and inverter. It feeds the house (via a separate cable) and at night I can run most everything off that system.

I am looking for a supplier now to integrate my rooftop return to grid system with the shed system and create a totally off grid system. I know it will cost money but it will be my system and I will be independent of the politics, money grabbing, and Grid Charges. Backup generator of course.

Anyone care to recommend a system integrator?

[N1 (Mirko)]

Glen, that is serious progress.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by glend

Just be careful with that retailer buy back rate, it can change at any time

As a result of that I'm going off-grid,

Good on you Glen. Depending on how the energy wars pan out many others may join you in going off grid in coming years.

It would be preferable by far to keep an integrated system with base load generators and home generators working together and making the most of the synergies, but big business and govt will not allow that at present.

We're switching from one of the worst (Simply Energy) to Momentum to get away from the price gouging. Simply Sucks keeps ramping up our daily supply charge even though we're on a contract - the supply charge is already 50% higher than Momentum and Simply is currently making noises about adding another 14 cents per day. They were a good company until they were taken over by GDF Suez in 2012.

Momentum has Australians on the phone too, while SE has someone speaking Greek in a far away place.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by glend

As a result of that I'm going off-grid, I have had enough of them buying my generated power for next to nothing and then ...

In France about 20 yrs ago they worked around that. They sued this guy who was off the grid generating electricity with his own water turbine in his backyard which was adjacent to a river.

The gvt passed a law. The electricity was gvt owned at the time. You can generate power but you cannot use it. You have to sell it back to the grid.

I think eventually if solar picks up and every house in Oz generates power they will enforce a buy back rate for peanuts and still charge us service availability and other BS inflated rates for use. It will come.

[glend (Glen)]

I had a chat with the NSW Energy Ombudsman's office this week about what I could and could not do, and they said there was no reason I could not go off grid (no regulations preventing it other than having to comply with the electrical code). The area I live in is semi-rural, and I have a big crown land area right at my back fence, so I am not anticipating any problems - well maybe a neighbor might ask a question if I had to run the generator too often.

I considered adding in a wind generator to my system, as there is always a good breeze off the lake, but they make noise, they have too many moving parts that wear out, are expensive for what they produce, etc. Also there are some pretty stringent regulations in NSW for wind generation already, mostly related to noise setback, pole mounts, separation from ajoining properties, etc.

So as more and more people move off grid that will make the grid more expensive for those remaining, as they try to spread the charges across fewer customers. So the Government's Direct Action program should play into my hands as I am taking direct action.

[xelasnave]

Now let's consider the small but wonderful thing happening here
Examples are being provided
Readers probably considering what they can do..politicians follow the crowd..
The revolution has begun
Offer help to others turn them to growing and helping other folk
Don't hate turn that energy to positive action
Whatever action Tony suggests support it
His conditioning is do anything and I get praise..then he will want to deliver more not less
Keep positive lead by doing not spewing

[icytailmark (Mark)]

if more recharge stations were available all over australia im sure alot more people would buy electric cars. id rather pay $15 a week to run a car

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Originally Posted by icytailmark

if more recharge stations were available all over australia im sure alot more people would buy electric cars. id rather pay $15 a week to run a car

I think electric cars would need to drop in price dramatically before the average Joe would buy one.

[xelasnave]

Every thing starts expensive and drops..seem to recall paying 2200 approx for first canon 6 meg
And conversion does have to be everyone
All actions combine to average a better putcome

[xelasnave]

And this thread is now not a rule breaker
We are removing the politics
We can all be on one side
The winning side

[Steffen]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Every thing starts expensive and drops..seem to recall paying 2200 approx for first canon 6 meg
And conversion does have to be everyone
All actions combine to average a better putcome

I disagree. Except for technical goods (that one buys once in a blue moon) prices go up and up and up. Groceries, utilities, insurance, housing – you name it.

That said, the new Tesla 3 is supposedly under $40k

Cheers
Steffen.

[xelasnave]

As Adam Savage of Myth Busters says

I reject your reality and substitute my own

They will get cheaper and fly as well