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  #101  
Old 26-04-2016, 05:47 PM
eskimo20 (Robert)
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Beau

You “can” do video astronomy without a computerised goto mount. But it will be a much more pleasant experience if you get one.


A lot of the stuff you want to look at is below naked eye visibility and if you are using a 1/3” CCD camera (as most of us are) you will end up with quite a small field of view.


You can buy a Skywatcher Star Discovery Pro Alt/Az Mount (computerised/goto) for about $600 that will hold a 6kg payload.


https://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/sw-mount.asp


Furthermore, you don’t need a large aperture for video. Many people use 80mm refractors (like Chris) and get excellent results.



Cheers
Robert
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  #102  
Old 26-04-2016, 06:12 PM
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astroron (Ron)
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I find the idea of video astronomy distressing,
To think of sitting out under a beautiful night and having a telescope
connected to a TV screen just makes me want to give up astronomy.
Lazy astronomy, may as well just do astro imaging.
Or even better buy or download some Hubble or other telescope images
and you will be able to sit inside and watch it in comfort on your big screen.
Cheers
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  #103  
Old 26-04-2016, 06:24 PM
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ChrisV (Chris)
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If i can view things with an 80mm scope that others can't see with something four times as big I'd call that exciting. And do it as quick as it takes someone to look, avert etc.

Its nothing like astrophotography. It happens right there as you watch. BUT never mind ... each to their own ...

Cheers Chris
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  #104  
Old 26-04-2016, 06:51 PM
eskimo20 (Robert)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astroron View Post
I find the idea of video astronomy distressing,
To think of sitting out under a beautiful night and having a telescope
connected to a TV screen just makes me want to give up astronomy.
Lazy astronomy, may as well just do astro imaging.
Or even better buy or download some Hubble or other telescope images
and you will be able to sit inside and watch it in comfort on your big screen.
Cheers
Ron

The reason I don't download Hubble images is same reason that you don't download grainy images shot with TP2415 and processed in Dektol.

And you may be surpised to know that cameras and screens can be turned off.
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  #105  
Old 26-04-2016, 10:53 PM
CrazyGiza (Satan)
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Great info guys.

Technology should be weighed on its merits, if i can grab some colour that my eye is too pathetic too see, but can with the aid of some tech, so be it.

Im now thinking i'll end up with two (yeah sure, just 2) scopes. A big dob to see what i can with some arranged glass and my eye. And video dedicated scope.

While I'm still using a walking stick and pain killers, the cheapest way into astro vid OBSERVATION is my first goal.

No scope, no camera and a slow laptop.

Too night at late to think now, if anyone is bored and wants to surf a cheap scope and camera that would get me rollin', feel free to drop me some suggestions. I just went lookin at $1200-$2400 refractors, but if a lot cheaper sct or mak will do, I'll go that way. (Sick of not being able to work and earn $$$).

Oh, how important for a refractor to be ED or doublet (?), if i go that way?
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  #106  
Old 27-04-2016, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astroron View Post
I find the idea of video astronomy distressing,
To think of sitting out under a beautiful night and having a telescope
connected to a TV screen just makes me want to give up astronomy.
Lazy astronomy, may as well just do astro imaging.
Or even better buy or download some Hubble or other telescope images
and you will be able to sit inside and watch it in comfort on your big screen.
Cheers
YES, because I like those beautiful dark skies as well. Living in the most light polluting (and often cloudy) country, viewing a real dark sky like I did recently in South Africa (and even in much closer France) is amazing. No screen or Oculus Rift with an astronomy app can beat this, how high resolution it has. Thatis why I stress upon importance of keeping as much dark sky locations on Earth as possible.

NO, because when one *is* in a light polluted area (e.g. Sydney CBD or, worse, Dubai with its hazy skies and LOTS of LP) an electronic eyepiece can reveal real time images with a small scope.

I expect that in the 2020s electronic eyepieces or cameras fitting in a 1.25" or 2" socket exist and are affordable for the amateur. It will use partly the same technology as night vision goggles and have super sensitive sensors. These devices send one or more times a second frames (wirelessly) to a tablet or smartphone which processes the images with stacking and allow real time viewing of faint Halpha nebulas in full color. A kind of 'real time astrophotography'.

Putting an optional coordinate grid and / or an arrow on the screen to point to the desired object would be no problem as accelerometer, inclinometer and GPS technology is no problem. So old scopes without goto and only manual control can easily be 'pushed to' with help of such a device.

These devices allow viewing much fainter objects with a given aperture so such a device used on a small 80mm scope will reveal many faint deepsky objects from an apartment balcony close to Sydney CBD.
And when locatied in a Bortle 0 location it will reveal even more and when a 40+cm Dob is used one can peep almost as deep in to universe as Hubble does now.

The only technology to overcome is the elimination of luminous screens which makes current smartphones almost unreadable in sunlight and too bright during night and replacement by transreflective displays, i.e. very dim (red) in the dark and fully reflective with enough ambient light.

No, these devices won't replace straight optical viewing but just coexist beside it, just like astrophotography does. AP did not beat visual observing despite it reveals MUCH more.
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  #107  
Old 28-05-2016, 08:49 AM
CrazyGiza (Satan)
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Wow, a thread to discuss this topic and the webmasters allow astroron to come along and call a cripple LAZY!

no wonder this place is dead. He should be banned for those comments, and his troll like behaviour on a video assist Thread. Anyone interested that reads his AllKnowingOpinion will not jion this dying community either....

Goodbye iceinspace, i mentioned my disability and you Allowed trollery and slander... Shame on you moderaters.
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  #108  
Old 28-05-2016, 12:29 PM
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ChrisV (Chris)
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+1 CrazyGiza. The attitude is a bit sad really.

One might even say "lazy". The post you refer to is unnecessary and unhelpful. It's a throw away line from someone who knows nothing about what we are doing.

Well there are great astro video forums out there as you have more recently found.

Cheers. Chris

PS I enjoyed my viewing last night of some great southern nebulae and galaxies. In colour and in real time. With my video camera.
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  #109  
Old 28-05-2016, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyGiza View Post
Wow, a thread to discuss this topic and the webmasters allow astroron to come along and call a cripple LAZY!

no wonder this place is dead. He should be banned for those comments, and his troll like behaviour on a video assist Thread. Anyone interested that reads his AllKnowingOpinion will not jion this dying community either....

Goodbye iceinspace, i mentioned my disability and you Allowed trollery and slander... Shame on you moderaters.
I don't think he was calling a cripple "lazy", I think he was expressing his opinion that video astronomy was in his view 'lazy astronomy', not looking through the eyepiece with my own eyes would seem to be wasteful to me as well.
I note also that a few days ago he posted four posts advising you about astronomy and also offering to sell to you a scope at a pretty good price. He also offered for you to ring him to discuss scopes etc.

Ron is actually one of the most helpful people on here with lots of experience...
I think the shame is your 'over the top' response, when most would just agree to disagree....
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  #110  
Old 28-05-2016, 06:44 PM
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astroron (Ron)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyGiza View Post
Wow, a thread to discuss this topic and the webmasters allow astroron to come along and call a cripple LAZY!

no wonder this place is dead. He should be banned for those comments, and his troll like behaviour on a video assist Thread. Anyone interested that reads his AllKnowingOpinion will not jion this dying community either....

Goodbye iceinspace, i mentioned my disability and you Allowed trollery and slander... Shame on you moderaters.
I have never seen your post mentioning you had a disability,But neither did I call you lazy, I said video astronomy is lazy astronomy,(please don't put words into my mouth)
I offered you lots of help and advice, not once did you mention me saying about lazy astronomy, Now you come out all indignant wit a mouthful od disgust, so be it I will not offer any advice to you again, and as far as I am concerned you can do what you like.
I went out of my Way for you and am not impressed at your protest.
Good bye, you will not be missed, at least by me.
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  #111  
Old 29-05-2016, 12:20 AM
CrazyGiza (Satan)
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I see Explore Scientific are getting ready to release some New 100 series triplet refractors in a month or so...better glass...might be great to get a review from someone who Enjoys vidastro and has played with a few different breeds, doublet v triplet, built in field flattener v reducer etc etc.

A little wary of the skywatcher ed80... only a couple of Lazy hunj more for a triplet worth it?

Last edited by CrazyGiza; 29-05-2016 at 07:36 AM.
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  #112  
Old 29-05-2016, 12:27 AM
CrazyGiza (Satan)
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I have seen some mixed reviews on the Esprit sky watcher range. A little more pricey and have heard of collimation probs and vignetting, but supposedly fixed now. But it is worthwhile making sure the place you buy from understands the importance of stock rotation. Especially when manufacturers change little things half way through production...
hey chrisV...it could save heaps of grief. You dont want to be lumped with the bottom box when such issues have arisen such as with the 2014 Esprit 80's
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  #113  
Old 29-05-2016, 12:35 AM
CrazyGiza (Satan)
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Has anyone tried a Vixen refractor with a CAMERA jammed up it? I didn't really look at the scope i spotted, i was chasing info on their Eyepieces, but THAT is NOT for THIS THREAD.
I might hit up the search engine seeing as my collapsed ankle wont let me sleep tonight and its a bit blowy n cold out tonight.

Cheers vidastro lovers n brothers, chime in if you have CAM'd any of the three scopes i have just mentioned...you know, in the name of Promoting and encouraging positive conversation in and of a subject we are here to DISCUSS(not DEFEND).
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  #114  
Old 29-05-2016, 12:44 AM
CrazyGiza (Satan)
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Hey chrisV, i think you mention an sct you had probs with because of focal length...did you see the conversion lens to turn them into supersonic F2 fast scopes? A couple places in the states were advertising the conversion between 4hunj up to 1k...pricey experiment but they make em just to speed the scopes up, so... could be interesting

Beau
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  #115  
Old 29-05-2016, 07:33 AM
CrazyGiza (Satan)
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The main reason i have been looking at the EX SCI and Esprit is focal length.
they both are 80mm aperture same as Skywatcher ed80 but only 480mm focal legnth....quicker off the bat. Low f ratios are the name of the game, so better quality glass, configuration and focal length... win win win. And its nice to have something a little different, the skywatcher ed80 looks alright and by all accounts is great for vidastro, but sometimes a few extra pennies upfront saves a fistfull of dollars later...
the rev im kit comes with a .5 focal reducer, just a cheapie no doubt, but the one search i did for reducers came back 3hunj plus for .85 in aus, wow, we get screwed by bricknmortar here... and yes rent, staff blah blah... the Markup is still rediculous to what the get em for...

So another reason i am looking elsewhere for my next scope... (and the 120x600 i brought new and unopened has Fine white Grit on main lens...so did barlowx2 and it scratched ridiculously easy with one wipe...so haven't touched scopes main lens...i'll bush mechanic an adapter for vacuum to suck those off or lens pen them failing that. I sent tasco an email about it, just for their Quality Control for future, but I'll leave the brand behind i think... a dirty factory is a dirty factory and all advice says Don't clean, but the specs are Very apparent on rev im screen, not to the eyeball though)

Clear skies peeps, beau.

Ps, i know Esprit is skywatcher so it is nearly struck off my list anyway...unless tasco send a lenspen and replacement barlow, but id be Not happy if a 2k scope had the 'grit' my 5hunj cheapie came with...
almost like they know a newb would give it a wipe and scratch it...

Last edited by CrazyGiza; 29-05-2016 at 07:48 AM.
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  #116  
Old 29-05-2016, 11:40 AM
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csb (Craig)
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I've got a Celestron c8 with a. 63 focal reducer. Used with DSO1 camera and 7" lcd monitor. Very easy setup. I haven't had time to look at DSO's but this combo works great on planets n moon.

Post #110, Ron's, has been reported. So vicious to post that. Mods this is not his first attack either. Please warn him. Please also delete his post #102 - surely this is trolling, with desired effect!
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  #117  
Old 29-05-2016, 11:41 AM
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CrazyGiza

Will pm you about the scopes.

Chris
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  #118  
Old 29-05-2016, 12:06 PM
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I would also like to comment about the "lazy astronomy" comment as it is getting a bit semantic. Lets not beat around the bush, I would suggest that if you say that someone is doing lazy astronomy then:
- you are actually suggesting that they are being lazy in their approach to astronomy.
- putting the word lazy in a post about what someone is doing is pretty derogatory.

It is also really unclear as to why it is lazy astronomy ??

1. We are using a form of technology to boost what we can see. If that's the case then why isn't astrophotography lazy astronomy. Can you explain the difference. They are all just different types of astronomy.

2. When does the use of technology make astronomy lazy ?
When we started using digital cameras for astrophotography ?
When new glass types, or eyepieces were developed ?
When cassegrains were developed ?
When newtonians were developed ?
OR, are you saying that the use of video cameras is the only lazy form of astronomy ?


I would also suggest that video astronomy is just a new form of technology that allows you to do things that you CANNOT do through an eyepiece.

- Last night I was able to observe several nebulae and galaxies in colour with great detail using exposures in less than a minute (3 - 10x 5sec subs etc). This was all done on an 80mm refractor.

- Can you do this with an eyepiece. I would suggest not.

It is particularly good for DSOs, not so good for planetary where at present I would still use an eyepiece.
Friends in the USA tell me it is also excellent for outreach.

What makes any of this lazy ?
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  #119  
Old 29-05-2016, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by csb View Post
Post #110, Ron's, has been reported. So vicious to post that. Mods this is not his first attack either. Please warn him. Please also delete his post #102 - surely this is trolling, with desired effect!
Ron's entitled to his opinion guys.
He wasn't attacking anyone personally or in particular in his first post and was defending his first post in his next reply.

I wasn't offended and I'm an astro imager, LOL.

Let's get back on topic.

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  #120  
Old 29-05-2016, 12:20 PM
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From last night's fun.
1min exposures on 80mm refractor as captured on an ASI224 camera with sharpcap.

It ain't astrophotography, but its viewed in near real time. And in my light polluted Sydney skies with the moon rising at 1am
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