It steams my clams when someone complains about Bintel's prices

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by Kunama

I would think it would be logical to call and check.[...]
I would rather the store not indicate stock than to indicate that they have them but when you order something you get a reply saying there will be a delay.

Why would you rather vendors *not mention if they have stock? That makes zero sense to me and nixes the convenience of online ordering if you then have to call as well. Might as well just order over the phone.

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by bugeater

Well I assure you, isn't the norm and doesn't need to. Most online retailers get it right. Probably because those that don't, go out of business. I think they get away with it in astronomy because it's such a small market and most of the Australian retailers seem to behave the same way or worse.

My experience has been the opposite, many traders who show items in stock do not actually hold stock but order it in from an Australian warehouse. Even OPT and Telescope Express have contacted me subsequent to an online order to advise that items were not actually in stock.

I prefer to remove any doubt by personal contact with the seller, especially in a fringe activity like astronomy where the proprietors often work with few staff and haven't the time to continually update websites.

This has the added benefit of establishing 'good will' with a trader. For example, my many communications with Claude at AEC have resulted in him often sending me new items (Tak scopes, eyepieces etc) before any payment by me.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by bugeater

Help themselves?

The very fact the suggestion is that you should have to ring to check stock levels indicates a pretty serious deficiency in the retailer relative to most others out there. At least relative to the online retailers I've ever dealt with (which are mostly not in the astronomy space to be fair).

+1

If you're going to have an internet store, you need to back it up with accurate real-time stock levels, and a prompt reply service indicating the order status, estimated time of delivery, etc. That's how shopping on the Internet is supposed to work, and if you can't get the basics right, don't expect customers who had a disappointing first experience to come back, because there are plenty of e-retailers who can get it right!

(By the way - this is not aimed at Bintel - I've made several very happy on-line purchases with them. However, one "bricks and mortar" telescope shop, whose location and identity I choose to not divulge, gave abysmal after-market service on a significant purchase - I won't be going back.)

[Steffen]

An online store that indicates stock levels, or alternatively delivery times, as well as shipping cost to me before checkout will get my business any day over one that doesn't.

I will simply pass on those that display "call" instead of prices or delivery times, or that hide the shipping cost until well after they've collected all my contact info.

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by Stonius

Why would you rather vendors *not mention if they have stock? That makes zero sense to me and nixes the convenience of online ordering if you then have to call as well. Might as well just order over the phone.

Hi Markus,
I think you should read my post again, you quote only half of my sentence thus changing the intended meaning.

[raymo]

I have also made several purchases from Bintel, and been happy, but the
emailed invoice I received for my latest purchase showed a "grand total"
of the price + gst, but no mention of the shipping charge, of which I remained
ignorant until I looked at the invoice that came with the item. This stinks;
raymo

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by Kunama

Hi Markus,
I think you should read my post again, you quote only half of my sentence thus changing the intended meaning.

Hey there. I thought I edited it for brevity, but given your post I thought maybe I should read it again, and I have to admit, I'm still not sure how I misconstrued your meaning. The first sentence I cut merely noted that everyone has mobiles. The second mentioned your experience with Bintel and your Delos.

Maybe you could tell me what I'm missing?

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Originally Posted by steffen

an online store that indicates stock levels, or alternatively delivery times, as well as shipping cost to me before checkout will get my business any day over one that doesn't.

I will simply pass on those that display "call" instead of prices or delivery times, or that hide the shipping cost until well after they've collected all my contact info.

^^^this^^^

[The_bluester (Paul)]

I would agree with that last. An online store that displays "Call" for prices and availability is only one step ahead of those dopey websites (And there were some major bricks and mortar Aus retailers who used to do this quite recently, some still do) which when you click on "Products" or similar, instead of actually showing you that, show a PDF of the latest junk mail catalog (Remember those)

IMO a well sorted web store should be live stock wise and the back office function of the physical store itself should support that. If you have to book stock in to one system as you receive it, then go update the web store with what you just did to keep it up to date, you are handing over a competitive advantage to those stores who have it right. You get twice as many opportunities to cock up data entry for one thing (And have to pay someone to do it twice) and if selling the last of an item over the counter does not update in the web store to show it out of stock, then it is just trouble brewing.

[DarkKnight (Kev)]

I've flicked through this thread, probably missed some salient bits, like kittenshark's web address, but the overall theme seems to be lack of 'in your face' disclosure by retailers.

The term 'Caveat emptor' comes to mind, 'let the buyer beware'. Now I may be a bit old fashioned here, but I believe that 'due diligence', as a buyer, is not only your responsibility, but also plain old common sense.

I sometimes buy from overseas, but only after I've checked the exchange rate, the freight cost, and whether the item attracts GST. Most websites have a link for checking the freight cost to your location.

As a general rule I will pay the higher local cost for an item that has a motor, or a PCB in it, for peace of mind, and return freight costs, that only a local warranty gives.

If possible I will buy from a "B&M' store, although they are being decimated by the buying power of the online competitors.

I'm in the throes of purchasing a new HEQ5 Pro mount. I shopped around for prices then phoned my local retailer, Survey and Instrument Specialist in Newcastle, told them what I wanted and disclosed that I'd looked at prices online. Without asking, they matched the best online price and got my order.

For me, win, win ,win! I've injected some money into the local economy, will be dealing 'face to face', and if I have problems I'm not faced with exorbitant return costs.

Dealing locally doesn't have to be rocket science. Give it a try, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Oh, and as I live in a small town about 160k's from Sydney, most of my purchases are online, sight unseen, as I don't have the luxury of being able to drop into the local retailer, pick their brains, and then chase the best price online.

At least give the local sellers a go.

[multiweb (Marc)]

In a perfect world (alternate universe) every online store gives you an accurate representation of their physical stock as well as an exact dollar amount and exact delivery time right down to the second from their store to your door.

On our planet, life is such that electronic stock and physical stock rarely match, shipping and delivery companies are many, delivery cost can be per volume, weight and many other way to quantify a shipment, delays and day to day unseen problems, dependancies on suppliers and third party contractors are part of running any business.

So in short, it is quite complicated to programmatically calculate shipping fees because there is no consitency out there. This is why shipping is usually not included in a quote or final amount. It is calculated separately.

Unless you're a big mob like amazon or ali baba and do your shipping in house.

As far as availability goes any business will say it is in stock then sort it out for the customer as best as they can as not to lose a sale. This is standard procedure.

[raymo]

I would still like to know the shipping cost before the item is shipped, so
that if I think it is unreasonable I can cancel the purchase, or at least discuss
it with the retailer.
raymo

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by raymo

I would still like to know the shipping cost before the item is shipped, so
that if I think it is unreasonable I can cancel the purchase, or at least discuss
it with the retailer.
raymo

The only way to do this is to get your delivery address then if the business uses always the same shipping companies each will have rate tables based on volumes, weight and/or quantities. It is a lot of processing to do and not necessarily acurate. An email or phone call is easier.

[raymo]

I have in the last three weeks or so sold and posted/freighted about
75 items ranging from my HEQ5 and my 8" Newt, to very small items
such as filters. All the small items under 500grams cost the same to post
in prepaid satchels; all items that are under 3kg and will fit in the
appropriate satchel cost the same, and all items that are under 5kg, and
will fit in the even larger satchel, cost the same. These three weight ranges
will cover a very sizeable proportion of items sold by a typical astro store.
In every case I was able to inform the buyer of the postal cost before
shipping the item. Even with the mount and scope, once I knew the dimensions of the boxes I was able to calculate the freight cost online in a couple of minutes, so the buyer could decide whether the purchase was viable or not.
The item I just bought weighed far less than 500grams, and was small, so
would have attracted a standard postal charge.
raymo

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Aus Post also offers an API so that software systems can calculate postage charges given sufficient information (weight, dimensions, locations etc).

I haven't checked, but I'd be surprised if couriers didn't offer similar systems.

It's not only doable, but this is becoming expected and companies that can't offer things like this will lose business to those that can.

I don't order from places that don't offer this kind of service (along with actual stock availability) unless I can't find anywhere else to order from.

What really gets me is when you place an order for something worth several thousand dollars, get an automated email and then eventually (after maybe a week) you email the company and they tell you it's not in stock. That's not acceptable service imo.

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Or when they don't reply to your email.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Ah....yes, I almost forgot. The mighty API solves everything

[Nikolas (Nik)]

New case in point regarding local sellers
Bintel offer the orion fliptop diagonal for $269
As far as I could search this is the only retailer in oz that sell them, not in stock and overpriced.
I have purchased the skywatcher version from a british astroshop for $125 delivered (Exchange with Brexit has helped)
This is what steams my clams

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

New case in point regarding local sellers
Bintel offer the orion fliptop diagonal for $269
As far as I could search this is the only retailer in oz that sell them, not in stock and overpriced.
I have purchased the skywatcher version from a british astroshop for $125 delivered (Exchange with Brexit has helped)
This is what steams my clams

I understand your frustration, but instances like this don't "steam my clams".

As has been pointed out in this thread and elsewhere, it costs real money to manage a "bricks and mortar" store, and when you are dealing with a low-volume speciality business (such as astro-gear), those costs can translate into high mark-ups being required on some items. Add to this the vagaries of exchange rate variation, inventory costs versus the costs of bringing in special orders, etc, and it's no surprise to see some items being priced competitively with overseas sources, while others can cost 2x, 3x or more than the overseas competition.

I will always try to support local businesses where practical, but I will only pay "so much" extra to support them. "How much" extra depends on how much I am spending overall, how quickly I want to get it in my hands, and how likely I think I am to want / need after-sales support.

When I am shopping on the internet for anything at all, I always check my local "bricks and mortar" stores (e.g. Astro Pete and Sirius Optics) first, as well as any other Australian suppliers (e.g. Bintel), and overseas suppliers.

If the item is one where warranty / after-sales support is an important factor, I will probably accept the higher local price and buy locally. (If i am buying from overseas, I generally assume that warranty / after-sales service will be hard to access, if not non-existent. Even if an international warranty is available, the costs of shipping can make it an impractical proposition in many cases.)

For smaller purchases, if my local store has the item in stock, and their price is competitive (within a few dollars / percent say), they will get my business straight away. If they don't have the item in stock, I will order from elsewhere, rather than placing an order with an open-ended delivery time. If they are a bit more expensive, and I am really keen to get the item, they will probably still get my business. If they are a lot more expensive, I don't try to twist their arm to price-match (even if their price seems to be absurdly high in comparison with offshore pricing) - I just buy it from overseas and wait for it to arrive.

I don't know whether the local stores think my buying practices are "fair and reasonable" - but that's the reality of shopping in the global internet marketplace.

[Nikolas (Nik)]

269 as opposed to 125 is still a large discrepancy. In this case the wallet talks.