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Old 04-11-2011, 01:11 AM
Jbunky86 (Jason)
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Advantages of ccd vs Dslr??

Hi
Just wondering wat are the advantages of a ccd camera vs Dslr ?

Cheers jas
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:47 AM
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gregbradley
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A hot question.

Check out these 2 images:

http://www.pampaskies.com/gallery3/D...ects/B33-Flame AP130GT and Canon 1000D cooled and modified

http://www.pbase.com/gregbradley/image/92757065 mine with STL11 and AP140

The first is by Ignacio of Argentina and the 2nd one is mine from remote NSW.

His was taken with AP130GT and modified and cooled Canon 1000D and taken near Buenos Aires (it said from rural skies in the post title).

Mine was taken in rural skies in NSW and an AP140 and SBIG STL11.

Not a huge difference is there? Subtle perhaps, a bit richer in mine perhaps, perhaps a bit more resolution in mine. But I wouldn't say there is a lot in it.

But thats not a regular DSLR that has been modified to be cooled and the standard filter replaced.

So the advantages as I see it of each are:

DSLR:

1. Cheap although these days the price difference between CCDs and DSLRs has narrowed especially a cooled DSLR and CCD.
2. Doesn't need a computer so its more portable and less cables and gear. Although you virtually need a computer anyway for these types as I suspect the cooling needs a computer (not sure) and you need an autoguider which are usually controlled by a computer.
3. One shot colour is a bit easier to process.
4. Each shot taken is an image in itself versus mono CCD where you need 4 filtered images luminance, red, green and bue to get a colour image so if there's regular bad weather one shot colour makes a lot of sense.
5. A lot of software support and a lot of imagers using them for backup.

CCDs:
1. Lower noise because they are cooled. The cooling is regulated so you can match the light exposures with a dark exposure to subtract the dark noise. Cooled DSRLs may not be temperature regulated well enough to do that and use a special kind of dark which is not as perfect to achieve a clean up.
2. More sensitive. Unless we are comparing to one shot colour and then they are much the same.
3. Mono has higher resolution.
4. Small CCD cameras are lighter.
5. More resolving electronics. Most CCD cameras are 16 bit and most DSLR are 10, 12 or high end 14 bit.
6. More flexible. You are limited to Ha imaging with a DSLR in narrowband. The other narrowband won't work well enough. And Ha is not as good as a mono CCD (it takes 4 pixels on a colour sensor to make a one shot colour versus every pixel in mono, in one shot colour only every 4th pixel has a red lens over it).
7. More accessories. Filter wheels, off axis guiders, adaptive optics units.
8. Large chips are available. Larger than Canon 5D.


It really boils down to cooling. Powerful CCD cooled chips are very low noise.

As far as CCD versus CMOS (DSLRs are CMOS chips) I am not sure of the differences beyond
the fact that as far as I am aware there is more research happening in CMOS as it seems more aligned
with the major markets. Of course Canon makes their own. They often seem to be trying to lower noise
and improve low light performance. Also the electronics are continually becoming more sophisticated.

But for bright objects the difference as above is not as great.

When doing a dim galaxy or dust area or narrowband the difference becomes greater.

Some of the very best DSLR images though I have seen are still from the now outdated 20Da the astronomy version Canon put out once.

I think just about everyone starts with a DSLR. Enjoy them, they are a lot of fun. Eventually though you will want to go that extra
for your images that only a dedicated astronomy CCD can deliver and they are all not the same either. A cheap astro CCD is not as good as a lot of the nice DSLRs these days. So that is another factor. Not all astro CCDs are better than modified and cooled DSLRs.
I'd leave that point for others with one shot colour CCD cameras about which are better than what.

Greg.
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Old 04-11-2011, 03:03 PM
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graham.hobart (Graham stevens)
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CCD vs DSLR

As Greg said, but wanted to emphasise-CHEAP!!
Get an old 450D or 1000D off ebay and you can modify it and even add a cooler.
Saying that -it seems most people gradually migrate to specialist CCD's from DSLR's once they have messed about with DSLR's for a while.
I like my DSLR but I anticipate when I get to the stage of having an obs and a G11 etc, I will probably also have an SBIG etc to go with it.
Pipe dreams at the moment though.
Graham
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:39 PM
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Bassnut (Fred)
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Yeah,CHEAP,well if you have lots of time (for extra processing and general grief) no money and a hankering for messing with ordinary images, DSLR is the go. Or Skip one upgrade path and do it properly.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:50 PM
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I took my first DSLR pics in March 2011 within a few months I realized I wanted more and bought a cooled CCD. I went with the QHY10 OSC and I have to say that I don't regret it in the least. It's still a very easy camera to use (no filter wheels etc) but the quality and sensitivity of the pictures is far above that of the unmodded DSLR. After a little while you can produce terrific pictures and you have much longer to go before you might want to change and move up in the world. As Fred said do it properly that was my experience and I would agree skip the first step.

Go CCD

Of course if you want your camera to do double duty then the DSLR can do the happy naps and holiday pics too. something else to think about.


all the best

Paul
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:29 PM
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I did the progression but as for purchased cameras i have only purchased one... qhy9 mono + FW combo

40D ---> Modified ----> QHY9 alright ----> better -----> I have data...
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:51 AM
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LightningNZ (Cam)
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The only thing I think I might be able to offer here is that if you're budget constrained, it's better to spend as much on the mounting. My EQ3 is a really pretty terrible mount, but on occasion it can just manage to give me a reasonable shot of something through my 102mm F/5 achro and Canon 300D (mod). If I'd saved up hard and spent say $1500 on a 2nd hand CCD instead of a $200 2nd hand DSLR I wouldn't have any better pics but I would be a lot more frustrated. The Canon will keep me going for a while when I upgrade my mount, so I can gain some experience before moving on to a (relatively) expensive CCD.

Last edited by LightningNZ; 05-11-2011 at 09:52 AM. Reason: typo fixed
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:56 AM
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Bassnut (Fred)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningNZ View Post
The only thing I think I might be able to offer here is that if you're budget constrained, it's better to spend as much on the mounting. My EQ3 is a really pretty terrible mount, but on occasion it can just manage to give me a reasonable shot of something through my 102mm F/5 achro and Canon 300D (mod). If I'd saved up hard and spent say $1500 on a 2nd hand CCD instead of a $200 2nd hand DSLR I wouldn't have any better pics but I would be a lot more frustrated. The Canon will keep me going for a while when I upgrade my mount, so I can gain some experience before moving on to a (relatively) expensive CCD.
Wise words
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:24 PM
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bmitchell82 (Brendan)
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I guess i forgot to say that. The first thing i purchased was (in my eyes at the time) a massive 10" dobsonian. I knew i wanted to take photos so i pimpped my soul out got into hock so to speak and got myself the EQ6pro straight up. I had to go to bunnings and buy some lumps of wood and threaded rod to make my first set of rings to attach it to the mount!

I then had the oppertunity to borrow a 40D and that stayed with me till the start of this year when I once again pimpped my soul out and got the Qhy9 mono

Im a uni student that works only a few days a week so money isn't flowing around me like a river and most weeks its food or fuel to get to uni but I don't mind as it is only for a finite time!

So yes I echo bert and lightning!
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