Notre Dame

[LewisM]

Notre Dame in Paris has almost burned to the ground.

[DarkArts]

That's rather tragic. I have some very nice photos of Notre Dame from my visit (many years ago now).

I hope the fire can be brought under control and the remaining structure salvaged and restored.

[N1 (Mirko)]

It's bad but not quite that bad:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...mark-live-news

[xelasnave]

It looked bad. Must have been hell inside...which is rather ironic☺.
Its a miracle it did not burn to the ground☺.
A sad event for the nation and I hope they can rebuild the damaged parts so as to retain this wonderful building.
Alex

[CeratodusDuck (George)]

When I was last in Paris, the Notre Dame was still under renovation. It seems that the fire may be the result of workmen, but there is also the conspiracy concerning the burning of several other Catholic churches in France in recent months.


A true shame, regardless of your religion.

[LewisM]

The spire fell...not a lot left of the church. I am sure they can rebuild, but it'll never be the same. I too am glad I have seen it a few times.

Trump suggested - truly - that France needed to water bomb it...oh, what a genius this man is

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by CeratodusDuck

A true shame, regardless of your religion.

I don't have a religious bone in my body but I still find this a shocking loss to humanity. Along with York Minster, Hagia Sophiaand (and few others I couldn't name) it is one of the world's great buildings. Jacob Bronowski said in The Ascent of Man that such buildings, even though they were built as monuments to God (or Allah or Buddha or whoever), stand as monuments to the people who built them. (And, please, I'm discussing human endeavor and achievement, not religion!)

[multiweb (Marc)]

They've got rid of what they could move out in time apparently but all the fixtures attached to the building, vitreaux, etc... will be gone. The roof frame is gone so is the spire. Not sure what happened at this stage but I still can't comprehend how the hell a fire of that magnitude was allowed to grow and burn so hard in a building which everyone is looking at pretty much 24/7. I guess the enquiry will shed some light on this. Bloody shame for a 850 year old building.

[LewisM]

I have a sneaking suspicion the Gilettes-jeune will get a blaming...

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

I don't have a religious bone in my body but I still find this a shocking loss to humanity. Along with York Minster, Hagia Sophiaand (and few others I couldn't name) it is one of the world's great buildings. Jacob Bronowski said in The Ascent of Man that such buildings, even though they were built as monuments to God (or Allah or Buddha or whoever), stand as monuments to the people who built them. (And, please, I'm discussing human endeavor and achievement, not religion!)

Eloquently put sir.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

I have a sneaking suspicion the Gilettes-jeune will get a blaming...

That's why they were quick to rule out arson even though it was till burning not to inflame the situation further. Still something doesn't add up with all that business. Time will tell.

[sharpiel]

There's some talk bitumen roofing material that needs to be heated to form to shape caught fire and spread rapidly.

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

They've got rid of what they could move out in time apparently but all the fixtures attached to the building, vitreaux, etc... will be gone. The roof frame is gone so is the spire. Not sure what happened at this stage but I still can't comprehend how the hell a fire of that magnitude was allowed to grow and burn so hard in a building which everyone is looking at pretty much 24/7. I guess the enquiry will shed some light on this. Bloody shame for a 850 year old building.

There is little they could do to stop it. The forest of old growth oak beams in the roof are destroyed, and has been pointed out, the timbers no longer exist to replace them. I believe something like 13,000 oak tree were felled to make the roof structure. If they do rebuild, it cannot be done in the same way, likely steel would be used now to support the roof.
I see Trump suggested they use water bombers to attack the fire but in the heart of Paris this is unlikely to work eve n if the equipment was available. It's just another tragedy that was impossible to stop once it got started.
Prevention is the only way to save these type of old structures. Sadly the craftsmen just don't exist anymore to even try. The politicians promise to rebuild it, but it won't be for generations in my opinion. You only have to look at how long it is taking the Spanish to finish Gaudi's Cathederal to appreciate the effort needed.

[Ukastronomer (Jeremy)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

Notre Dame in Paris has almost burned to the ground.

Not that bad, but bad enough, shame

[xelasnave]

I suppose it would be rebuilt even if there were only two stones left standing.

But then one wonders why if everything has to be built afresh is there any point.

The questions that present...
Replace old with new materials and method or build it again exactly as it would have been done 800 years ago...use steel or wood...the window glass? make it like they did originally or use modern methods...or make the ruins safe and treat them as a reminder of how it once was...

Its a funny thing..I am not religious and think spending time energy and money on religious building to be an absolute waste and yet for this building I find myself leaning to rebuild it using ancient tools methods and materials.

And who will pay..the church? Mmmm was it insured? If not why not?
Should the world fund the fixup or only the church.

And how much money to repair it...heck if broad band cost billions you could think it could be more than that☺
Alex

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I suppose it would be rebuilt even if there were only two stones left standing.

But then one wonders why if everything has to be built afresh is there any point.

The questions that present...
Replace old with new materials and method or build it again exactly as it would have been done 800 years ago...use steel or wood...the window glass? make it like they did originally or use modern methods...or make the ruins safe and treat them as a reminder of how it once was...

Its a funny thing..I am not religious and think spending time energy and money on religious building to be an absolute waste and yet for this building I find myself leaning to rebuild it using ancient tools methods and materials.

And who will pay..the church? Mmmm was it insured? If not why not?
Should the world fund the fixup or only the church.

And how much money to repair it...heck if broad band cost billions you could think it could be more than that☺
Alex

Alex, it cannot be rebuilt as it was originally, the old growth oak forests that provided all that lovely timber are long gone. Reading yesterday suggested over 13,000 oak trees were felled for the original construction phase, most in the roof. Secondly, there would not be enough timber craftsmen to complete the job as it was done originally. Most likely is a modern reconstruction, using most fireproof materials like steel. However, before that can be considered there has to be a structural engineering study to determine just how stable the remaining structure is, and what needs to be done to stabilise it first. Ancient stone mortars maybe useless now as binding material in say the towers or upper walls that might have to support the new structure. At least they seem to getting a lot of financial support from people with money.
Of concern is the silence from the Vatican, which has massive wealth reserves. At the very least the Vatican security people should be very worried about a fire there.

[xelasnave]

OK lets start planting the trees☺.
Interesting you mention that we hear nothing from the franchise head office. That was my impression however as I dont really follow all the news I thought I may have missed it.
Actually one wonders why the Pope has not made a visit much like a president or prime minister visiting disaster areas...I doubt if they will contribute a cent as there are plenty of examples of just how mean and tight fisted head office can be.

One tends to think well the stone work is there so it will be ok but I would expect that it probably needs to be pulled down as well.

And then I wonder should resources go to rebuilding such a structure or to house the countless homeless and feed the countless starving.
I am now going to search to see if thete has been any comment from head office☺
Alex

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

OK lets start planting the trees☺.
Interesting you mention that we hear nothing from the franchise head office. That was my impression however as I dont really follow all the news I thought I may have missed it.
Actually one wonders why the Pope has not made a visit much like a president or prime minister visiting disaster areas...I doubt if they will contribute a cent as there are plenty of examples of just how mean and tight fisted head office can be.

One tends to think well the stone work is there so it will be ok but I would expect that it probably needs to be pulled down as well.

And then I wonder should resources go to rebuilding such a structure or to house the countless homeless and feed the countless starving.
I am now going to search to see if thete has been any comment from head office☺
Alex

Well you know the head office is in Italy, management may see this as a French problem. Of course much of the head office wealth came from looting the indigenous cultures of Central and South America back in the 1500s ( Aztecs, Incas, etc), in the name of___. And they have never been forthcoming with aid to rebuild church's destroyed by earthquakes as far as I can tell. The current boss is an Argentinian, you would think he would appreciate the irony of the situation.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

We don't need to look very far for the solution. It is as old as temples themselves:

Rebuild a totally new structure on the site.

No matter what Text you follow, this is the normal process. To attempt to reconstruct the old building has never been the practice. Always a new structure. The ubiquitous Pheonix.

New materials, new technology, new inspiration have all been the norm when an old temple is destroyed.

Of course it is a tragedy to see the old structure destroyed. But tradition has the solution. And the French will no doubt come up with some awe inspiring designs for a new cathedral worthy of replacing the old building.

Alex.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by mental4astro

We don't need to look very far for the solution. It is as old as temples themselves:

Rebuild a totally new structure on the site.

No matter what Text you follow, this is the normal process. To attempt to reconstruct the old building has never been the practice. Always a new structure. The ubiquitous Pheonix.

New materials, new technology, new inspiration have all been the norm when an old temple is destroyed.

Of course it is a tragedy to see the old structure destroyed. But tradition has the solution. And the French will no doubt come up with some awe inspiring designs for a new cathedral worthy of replacing the old building.

Alex.

One can only hope not in the utterly horrid style like the Pompidou Centre.

I disagree - it needs to be rebuilt how it was, or as close to as possible.