Good All Rounder For Dad And Daughter

[raymo]

Absolutely no difference in performance, but is easier to carry, just carry the tube assy by one of the three rods, like carrying a suitcase. It is far less intrusive standing inthe corner of a room, and fits much more easily into a small car. Brilliant value for money. I have no affiliation with the
brand.
raymo

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

Ok so I have pretty much decided on a 10" dob (solid), I have narrowed it down to the Skywatcher 10" or the Bintel 10". I think I'd prefer to buy the Bintel only because of the recommendations of great customer service, but not if its a poorp performing telescope.
The only difference I can see is the Bintel F/5 where as the Skywatcher is F/4.7, and the Bintel comes with an extra EP and a moon filter.
Advice, suggestions??

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

visually the performance will be the same but again, I don't think you can reach prime focus with a dslr on the bintel/gso solid tube, as for the solid tube skywatcher I would guess that it would also be a problem but you would need to check with the supplier.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

If you're interested in buying from Bintel and as you're in Sydney, drop into their store...they don't bite!

Not being funny, but a solid tube 10" Dob is quite a size for a chap who was earlier worried about it fitting in a small car but go and see...and take a tape measure

[raymo]

As far as I know all Skywatcher Newts will reach prime focus. The 8" and 10" collapsible and solid tubes do for sure, unless something has changed recently.
raymo

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by raymo

As far as I know all Skywatcher Newts will reach prime focus. The 8" and 10" collapsible and solid tubes do for sure, unless something has changed recently.
raymo

no worries Raymo I know the black diamond series do, I wasn't sure on the white coloured tube models.

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

Update, so after 3 pages and 46 posts I bought the Bintel 10" yesterday and it was delivered yesterday. I had an appointment last night which didn't see me get home until about 9:00pm. Just enough time to set it up and have a quick look at the moon (the planets were below the horizon by that time) which did look good I must admit. I tried to find something else to look at by swing around but by now it was getting too late to do anything serious. I have a starwalk app on my iPad which shows galaxies and nebula (well apparently it does but I haven't been able to work out how yet), so I might use that to find something a bit more interesting.

One thing I am annoyed about is after asking the Bintel salesman on the phone three separate times if this telescope was able to prime focus with a DSLR and was told that it could, and so I ordered a Canon adapter and a T piece. I get it set up with the camera hoping to get some great shots of the moon, and I can't focus . So I'll be calling them about that this morning after they open just to make sure its not something I am doing wrong and to depict my disappointment. If not there is a mod I have read about which involves installing longer collimation screws and some longer stiffer springs, which apparently brings the mirror close enough to be able to prime focus. And before you say it yes I know a dob isn't suitable for astro-photography, but I was hoping I could get some shots of the moon and maybe do some video and join frames for the fainter stuff, hey I'm on a budget at this point.

Ok about it size, yes its big, but I do own a dual cab ute so transporting it is no problem. The reason I asked about that earlier is because we do alot of camping (where there is absolutely no light pollution), and when camping the ute gets close to full with a quad bike and various other camping things. I have resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to buy a small entry level scope for camping (or maybe carry it on the roof racks).

Oh look its just after 8:00am, what time does Bintels open?

Edit: Just got a text from my wife, apparently my 5yo wont shut up about Saturn, Jupiter and the moon, so thats a good thing I suppose.

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

Update, so after 3 pages and 46 posts I bought the Bintel 10" yesterday and it was delivered yesterday. I had an appointment last night which didn't see me get home until about 9:00pm. Just enough time to set it up and have a quick look at the moon (the planets were below the horizon by that time) which did look good I must admit. I tried to find something else to look at by swing around but by now it was getting too late to do anything serious. I have a starwalk app on my iPad which shows galaxies and nebula (well apparently it does but I haven't been able to work out how yet), so I might use that to find something a bit more interesting.

One thing I am annoyed about is after asking the Bintel salesman on the phone three separate times if this telescope was able to prime focus with a DSLR and was told that it could, and so I ordered a Canon adapter and a T piece. I get it set up with the camera hoping to get some great shots of the moon, and I can't focus . So I'll be calling them about that this morning after they open just to make sure its not something I am doing wrong and to depict my disappointment. If not there is a mod I have read about which involves installing longer collimation screws and some longer stiffer springs, which apparently brings the mirror close enough to be able to prime focus. And before you say it yes I know a dob isn't suitable for astro-photography, but I was hoping I could get some shots of the moon and maybe do some video and join frames for the fainter stuff, hey I'm on a budget at this point.

Ok about it size, yes its big, but I do own a dual cab ute so transporting it is no problem. The reason I asked about that earlier is because we do alot of camping (where there is absolutely no light pollution), and when camping the ute gets close to full with a quad bike and various other camping things. I have resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to buy a small entry level scope for camping (or maybe carry it on the roof racks).

Oh look its just after 8:00am, what time does Bintels open?

Edit: Just got a text from my wife, apparently my 5yo wont shut up about Saturn, Jupiter and the moon, so thats a good thing I suppose.

Hi Con,

Congrats with your purchase a 10" scope is a lot of light gathering
the moon gets more interesting through the eyepiece when its not so full, scan along the terminator and you'll see the craters and mountains more easily. unfortunately deep sky objects get 'drowned out' by the bright moonlight so around full moon isn't that great for observing, unless its the planets.

yes the bintel/gso dobs don't make prime focus. you'll have to modify the scope or use a 2x barlow - but that 'magnifies' it.

all the best

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

One thing I am annoyed about is after asking the Bintel salesman on the phone three separate times if this telescope was able to prime focus with a DSLR and was told that it could, and so I ordered a Canon adapter and a T piece. I get it set up with the camera hoping to get some great shots of the moon, and I can't focus

As others have said, your scope may not be able to bring a DSLR to prime focus without some modifications, but I find it is MUCH easier to get a new telescope / camera combination working in daylight hours.

Pick a distant high-contrast target (a building or tree on the horizon for example), and then rack the focuser through it's range. Even if you can't reach proper focus, a high contrast target in daylight hours will mean you should be able to make out "something" (even if it's just a vague shape, or a suggestion of light and dark), and you'll be able to work out roughly how much extra in-focus you need, play with your Barlows, etc, to get an idea of what set-up will work best for you.

Once you know how to get reasonable focus in daylight, you can try again at night, but this brings additional challenges. If you have a webcam or a DSLR with "live capture" capability, you can watch what is happening on the computer screen while you play with focus and target alignment etc. Trying to focus a DSLR on a night-time target through the camera body viewfinder is a real challenge!

Trying to reach first focus with a new set of kit at night can be a huge challenge, because chances are you aren't even 100% sure if your target is in the field of view of the sensor, let alone whether you are close to focus or not. You will need both good alignment and good focus to even know if your target is in view on most night-time subjects.

For your first attempts at night, I suggest using the Moon, because it's bright enough to at least know whether the image is falling onto the sensor, and try to frame it so that the edge of the disc or the terminator falls across the sensor, because this will give you a high-contrast edge to try your focus on. If you have a sensor which is completely full of Moon with no edges, it can over-expose so much that you could even be close to focus without knowing it, because the brightness blows all the detail away. Once you have found some sort of recognisable image of the Moon, wind the sensor gain back if necessary to prevent over-exposure, and then you should be able to start to make out surface details such as craters and rills to improve focus. Then and only then should you start trying to find planets and other challenging targets.

Another word of warning - the extra weight of the DSLR camera body on the focuser can easily cause the telescope to shift a bit, so while you may have found your target in the eyepiece, once you put the camera on, it may deflect out of view. Again, starting with daylight targets and / or the Moon is a good idea, because you should be able to make out something to work with, even if your main target has slipped from view. Make sure your finderscope is well aligned - because it can be so hard to pick up most night-time targets using the camera viewfinder, you will be very reliant on initial positioning with an eyepiece, and then checking your telescope hasn't shifted using the finderscope after you have installed the camera body.

[Regulus (Trevor)]

Get a strong moon filter. Even with my f12 scope it leaves a large black spot in my vision, and having used a 10" Dob myself I know that it can leave you almost blind for 30+ minutes. The moon looks better with a filter, and if the cap has a secondary hole in it (usually about 50mm) use that to view it. It's a lot of light to be focusing into your eye.
Enjoy it Con, they are a great scope.

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

Just an update, last night was a clear night so we dragged the scope outside early in the evening before the moon came up, and used the iPad to find Saturn. Wow, what can I say, it wasn't too big in the EP, but it was so crisp and sharp, and I was able to make out a little bit of colour (I suspect a moon filter will improve the colours and contrast). We did not have much time so we just pointed it at the milky way but didn't spot anything of interest. I am going to wait until the weekend to play around the camera.

Afterwards we went to www.sasi.net.au where we spoke to few people and found out my new telescope has their seal of approval, apparently almost every member has a 10" dob. Then we got to look at Saturn (again) through a 16" x 2500mm (I think, that was a visual measurement) which did look good (personally I thought it looked better through my scope, but that was earlier in the night when it was a lot higher).

My next session is going to be an attempt to find omega centuras (sp?), which I am told is a "handful" of stars tightly bound by gravity some near the southern cross.

So I can't go a whole post without asking a question can I. What eyepieces do I want? The scope came with a 2" 26mm and two 1.25" in 15mm and 9mm plossi (which I heard are crap, but they looked good to me). I was thinking of a barlow for the planets and maybe better quality EP for the rest. Also assuming highest usable power of around 500-550X, what's the best way to do that. Would a 6mm on a 2X Barlow be better that a 3mm (do they even make them that small?). Also remember this is for solar system viewing so usually bright things.

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Con
Glad to hear that the new scope is getting used. And very glad to hear that the folks at SASI are endorsing your decision.
The view of Saturn through the 16" I assume was at higher power? If so the image can often look worse even disregarding the height of it above the target as higher magnification can also magnify the atmospheric distortions.
Which lead me to my next point regarding eyepieces. My usual advice to beginners is stick to using the supplied eyepieces for a while. There are several reasons for this but the main ones are that it is very easy to spend a lot of money on eyepieces and not really get the benefit you thought.
The 26mm EP will probably be not a bad choice for a all round deep space EP. With the plossls, you may have heard that they are "crap", but go back a few years and plossls were pretty advanced EPs. They have a simple design so are inexpensive and their main issue is at short focal lengths the eye relief can get a bit tight. That said a 15 and 9mm should both be useable in your scope. By all means try a barlow, I am not a big fan myself but they have the advantage when used with a given eyepiece, the eye relief stays the same as what it is with that EP.
Just be very careful of interpreting highest useful manification. My 20" I think has a theoretical highest useful mag of something over 600x ( I have never really bothered working it out!) but i have never pushed it beyond 317x, simply because the nights when going over 250x are so rare and really magnification is not really that helpful.
My first thing would be have a go using the 15mm (83X) and then the 9mm (139x) to observe Saturn and see what get the best detail. Try especially to see if you can crack Cassini's division in the rings or any of the faint banding on the planet itself. Then think about how cranking up the mag to say 208x (using a 6mm EP) would help.

Cheers

Malcolm