Seems a lot of ZWO cameras are up for sale but few QHY, which is the better
Why are they for sale? and if the user is replacing them, what are they replacing them with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward
QHY use the industrial grade IMX455 sensor in their 600 series.
My understanding is the, albeit less expensive, ZWO IMX455 model uses a consumer grade sensor.
So, do you buy the Scotch you want to actually drink...or pay for?
My understanding is that the only difference between the consumer and industrial grade is the operating temperature range and vibration resilience. Everything comes off the same production line, then is graded based on some kind of metric that determines whether it can be classed as consumer or industrial grade.
I daresay that the industrial/consumer grade classification is more marketing hype than anything, and to realise the benefits that using an industrial grade sensor would have, need to be supported by industrial grade design and other components.
I don't know about relative quality but I'm sure there are a lot more ZWOs bought than QHYs. So what percentage are getting sold, who knows? And are they upgrading to another ZWO?
I wouldn't mind an Audi, but I can afford a Subaru. And I'm more than happy with it.
I don't know about relative quality but I'm sure there are a lot more ZWOs bought than QHYs. So what percentage are getting sold, who knows? And are they upgrading to another ZWO?
I wouldn't mind an Audi, but I can afford a Subaru. And I'm more than happy with it.
Pretty much what I was thinking too. And since they introduced the ASIAir they have tied many more people to their equipment, especially newcomers who are looking for an "easy" way in without caring about the restrictions it places on the end user.
And of course you do see many for sale posts stating they've upgraded to another ZWO camera so don't need this one...
The LGA or land grid array of the industrial grade IMX455 sensors is ceramic. The consumer grade is resin/plastic.
The higher thermal stability of the ceramic substrate results in a much higher mean time between failure of that package compared to the consumer grade.
But they cost more....sorry... so no free ride here.
The LGA or land grid array of the industrial grade IMX455 sensors is ceramic. The consumer grade is resin/plastic.
The higher thermal stability of the ceramic substrate results in a much higher mean time between failure of that package compared to the consumer grade.
But they cost more....sorry... so no free ride here.
I've been doing some looking into it and I'm of the opinon that a large portion of the Sony Monochrome sensors are industrial grade. Using the IMX571 as an example, they seem to only make the Colour sensor in Consumer grade, and all the mono variants are industrial grade.
Like I said, It largey seems to be marketing hype to justify a premium price, at least for the IMX571 based mono cameras.
As you say though Peter, the IMX455 Sensor comes in both a mono and RGB as a consumer grade package, and only the mono variant seems to be available as industrial grade.
In the end, you're far more likely to upgrade, or other components will give out before the sensor itself dies. It's only worth specifying "industrial grade", if the rest of the materials and design can live up to that specification, which honestly, they probably can't.
The one feature that keeps me away from QHY is their preference of using a proprietary cable for their CFW control. I prefer ZWO's (and Player One's) approach of a USB-controlled EFW with standard USB cables.
I've had my ASI6200MM since Jan/Feb 2020 and it's till going with it's consumer-grade sensor, without any special readout modes.
I've been doing some looking into it and I'm of the opinon that a large portion of the Sony Monochrome sensors are industrial grade. Using the IMX571 as an example, they seem to only make the Colour sensor in Consumer grade, and all the mono variants are industrial grade. ......
I disagree.
Sony make IMX455AQK-K and IMX455ALK-K mono sensors.
As I said earlier one has a ceramic LGA, the other plastic/resin.
The difference is more than marketing hype
P.S.
While Sony having different LGA substrates is odd...sensors have had different quality (read $$$) grades
for decades now.
You used to have to sell a kidney for Class 0 16803 CCD. Class 2's were a haircut at best.
Not much has changed.
I have two QHY OSC cameras now and have not been able to fault them but I've used QHY for that last 15 years- looking for a a mono and was hoping for a good one second hand but seems every one is keeping their QHY
I have two QHY OSC cameras now and have not been able to fault them but I've used QHY for that last 15 years- looking for a a mono and was hoping for a good one second hand but seems every one is keeping their QHY
QHY announced today they are having a Black Friday sale.
Some good savings to be had...with the QHY600M now
several hundred dollars cheaper than the ZWO ASI6200MM
Trevor,
Both ZWO and QHY are built for a price and both do the job they were designed to do ie:capture pretty pictures of the universe.
I really don’t think one is better than the other in regards to capturing pictures of the universe. Either brand have had their fair share of problems since they came out on the market which is typical for new products where QC is somewhat questionable.
I’ve been using ZWO for 6 years now ( 120MM , 290MM , 2600MC and 2600MM plus EFW and EAF’s etc.. I don’t use an ASIR air ) and although I was one of the unlucky ones who had the dreaded leaky thermal grease pad in my 2600MC , it was fixed in a timely manner and the problem has never returned.
My new 2600MM is performing beyond my expectations as with all the other equipment.
You really can’t go wrong with either Brand and the only limitation should be budget and availability.
The one feature that keeps me away from QHY is their preference of using a proprietary cable for their CFW control. I prefer ZWO's (and Player One's) approach of a USB-controlled EFW with standard USB cables.
I have not had any issue with the inclusion of a proprietary control option. With my QHY9 when the cable broke I could use a USB to serial adapter and control the wheel fine. And with the new wheels you have the option of USB control.
I've had a couple of recent experiences with QHY cameras. One thing I have found is that there can sometimes be driver conflicts or the driver does not work when you have two QHY cameras (ie main camera and guide camera) or one of the cameras is not recognised when both cameras are connected to the same system. It can be worked around but does mean there is an element of frustration that can occur.
This is not to say ZWO don't have the odd issue regarding recognition of the camera but it is quite rare and can be resolved quickly.
Nearly all of our own cameras are ZWO at SRI, currently we have 5 ZWO cameras in operation and all seem to work flawlessly. So overall they are great for robotic work in my opinion.
Having owned a few high end cameras over the period I can say high end does not mean reliability in all instances. My SBIG camera had more frequently flier miles than the average person and it is now in a box as it was not repairable without any specific cause. It was a huge sum of money to buy and only lasted 5 years after conformal coating and being exchanged for a new camera after the first failed. Therefore the old maxim of you get what you pay for does not always ring true. Something to ponder when buying any equipment.
QHY states a tolerance for orthogonality of their sensor. ZWO does not and I have read several complaints on Cloudy Nights about the difficulties with tilt from ZWO cameras.
QHY also has better banding suppression.
The big one though is the muiltiple readout modes for some of their cameras.
That is really so you can set it up for low noise but less dynamic range for narrowband or large full well depth for objects with bright cores/stars.
You can optimise it for regular LRGB imaging where you want high dynamic range, low noise and good well depth.
The industrial grade sensor is a bonus which may well mean longer life of the sensor.
QHY seems a bit more innovative and comes out with improvements to the firmware.
Sony make IMX455AQK-K and IMX455ALK-K mono sensors.
As I said earlier one has a ceramic LGA, the other plastic/resin.
The difference is more than marketing hype
P.S.
While Sony having different LGA substrates is odd...sensors have had different quality (read $$$) grades
for decades now.
You used to have to sell a kidney for Class 0 16803 CCD. Class 2's were a haircut at best.
Not much has changed.
My initial statement still stands true though, only the IMX455 and IMX461 have consumer grade monochrome sensor packages available from Sony. All other mono sensor packages from Sony are industrial grade.
I do like that QHY are specifying that they're sourcing the industrial grade for their cameras, but from what i can tell based on the available literature directly from Sony, if your camera is mono, and not the 455 or 461, then you have an industrial grade sensor. If you have a colour sensor, then you most likely have a consumer grade sensor. Sony don't list many RGB industrial sensors.
As for sensor grading... I don't know how you would determine that. I can't see anything in the Sony literature that i've been able to find that goes into any depth on that. Mind you, i'm an outsider looking in; I'm sure that if i were in a position to be sourcing sensors for a product, then i would have access to a lot more options and data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley
QQHY versus ZWO. I have used both. Both are good.
QHY states a tolerance for orthogonality of their sensor. ZWO does not and I have read several complaints on Cloudy Nights about the difficulties with tilt from ZWO cameras.
QHY also has better banding suppression.
The big one though is the muiltiple readout modes for some of their cameras.
That is really so you can set it up for low noise but less dynamic range for narrowband or large full well depth for objects with bright cores/stars.
You can optimise it for regular LRGB imaging where you want high dynamic range, low noise and good well depth.
The industrial grade sensor is a bonus which may well mean longer life of the sensor.
QHY seems a bit more innovative and comes out with improvements to the firmware.
Greg.
I like that QHY state their orthogonality tolerance, and i'd be interested to know how their real world samples sit within their stated tolerance.
I take a lot of the tilt issues on CN with a few grains of salt. There are much more prominent points in an imaging train that can introduce tilt, and everyone is too quick to immediately blame the camera.
I'm not familiar with how QHY handles the firmware side of things, nor the improvements or innovations that they're making to them. But the by far the most consistent complaint I have seen with QHY is their drivers. And this has steered me away from them; hardware issues like tilt is easily rectifiable in the field by the end user, but driver issues are (usually) a show stopper. The ZWO cameras have always been consistent performers (for me).
I'd be interested in knowing about the better banding suppression in the QHY cameras.
